Consequences of firing government employees - USDA says it accidentally fired officials working on bird flu and is trying to rehire them

[rebornfree]

Ladys and Gentlemen, the face of the people who are destroying your country.

Kind of embarassing, really.

Yes, but I wouldn't blame that poor guy so much as the President's unelected friend who sent out the instructions in the first place.

To our American friends: Is it legal to just fire people in the USA?

 

[Bradskii]

I even looked it up, but I didn't correct it before saving.

The good news is that it could be used to get rid of Trump. The bad news is that the Veep takes over.

If the lunatics have taken over the asylum then if you get rid of the head honcho then the next guy in will just be one of the other lunatics.

 

[essentialsaltes]

To our American friends: Is it legal to just fire people in the USA?

In private companies, generally yes. Most people in 'regular' jobs are at-will employees, meaning they can be fired at will for any reason or no reason (as long as it's not an illegal reason like discrimination).

Unions or specific professions may provide additional protections or a process. Rank and file government employees who have a certain amount of tenure in their role also have additional protections, and are mostly supposed to be insulated from any political influence in hiring and firing. [Most of this DOGE activity has involved those without that 1-2 year tenure in their current position. Whether it's legal is still being sorted out.] Higher ranking federal government officials are often political appointees and 'serve at the pleasure of His Majesty sorry, the President'.

I am not an expert or a lawyer, but that's my understanding.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Trump reinstates fired staff working on food and device safety, 9/11 program​

Patient advocacy groups had decried the firings, and lobbying groups rushed to save some slots that were in part funded by the private sector.

Patient advocacy groups had decried the firings, saying they would erode the country’s standing as a global health leader, and well-funded lobbying groups rushed to save some government slots that were in part funded by the private sector, not taxpayer dollars.

The terminations had prompted Jim Jones — the FDA’s top food official — to resign last week, citing the “indiscriminate firing” of 89 staff members from the agency’s food program and Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s rhetoric toward staff.

HHS declined to comment. The department had previously defended the cuts, saying it was “following the Administration’s guidance and taking action to support the President’s broader efforts to restructure and streamline the federal government.”

--

Measure zero times, cut once, spend time sewing the cloth back together. Efficiency incarnate!

 

[essentialsaltes]

USAID staff given 15 minutes to return to office to gather personal belongings from Washington, D.C., office​

"This Thursday and Friday ONLY–on February 27 and 28, 2025 –USAID staff will have one opportunity to retrieve their personal belongings," the message reads, which was also posted to USAID's government website.

The email also contains a lengthy list of prohibited items that USAID staff are not allowed to bring onto the premises, including BB guns, drills, knives, sabers, swords, nunchucks, ski poles, chlorine and liquid bleach.

Several USAID officials told ABC News that including this list illustrates how agency employees who dedicated their professional lives to foreign assistance are now being treated like violent criminals.

 

[Bradskii]

​

Measure zero times, cut once, spend time sewing the cloth back together. Efficiency incarnate!

'Cut once' still implies an act with some thought behind it. 'This is what I have and I need to make it smaller'.

'Hack and slash indiscriminately' is more apt.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Interesting, I'm not seeing many Trump supporters weighing in on this particular thread.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Federal agencies told to start planning for large-scale layoffs in Trump admin memo​

Budget Director Russell Vought and Charles Ezell, the acting director of the Office of Personnel Management, wrote in a memo to the heads of these agencies that the federal government is "costly, inefficient, and deeply in debt."

Vought and Ezell explained that the memo doesn't apply to positions that are necessary for law enforcement, national security, immigration enforcement, and U.S. military personnel. It also excludes the U.S. Postal Service and presidential appointees.

 

[rjs330]

Interesting, I'm not seeing many Trump supporters weighing in on this particular thread.

That's because we are tired of the incessant whining over non-essential federal workers being laid off. Not every federal worker is a necessary worker.

And it sounds like they are hiring some back. Problem solved.

 

[public hermit]

And it sounds like they are hiring some back. Problem solved.

That's not efficiency. When something is efficient, it also works. If DOGE is breaking things and then gluing some pieces back together (because you know they haven't detected all of their mistakes), then we are not better off. A reasonable person would have investigated and made reasoned choices toward the goal, knowing that breaking stuff is not necessary for efficiency. This administration's approach is way more destructive than it has to be for its goal.

 

[rebornfree]

In private companies, generally yes. Most people in 'regular' jobs are at-will employees, meaning they can be fired at will for any reason or no reason (as long as it's not an illegal reason like discrimination).

Unions or specific professions may provide additional protections or a process. Rank and file government employees who have a certain amount of tenure in their role also have additional protections, and are mostly supposed to be insulated from any political influence in hiring and firing. [Most of this DOGE activity has involved those without that 1-2 year tenure in their current position. Whether it's legal is still being sorted out.] Higher ranking federal government officials are often political appointees and 'serve at the pleasure of His Majesty sorry, the President'.

I am not an expert or a lawyer, but that's my understanding.

Many thanks for your informative reply. Lol at 'His Majesty'! In fact Donald Trump is being far more autocratic than Charles III, or his late mother, would dream of being (or constitutionally be able to be).

 

[rebornfree]

USAID staff given 15 minutes to return to office to gather personal belongings from Washington, D.C., office​

"This Thursday and Friday ONLY–on February 27 and 28, 2025 –USAID staff will have one opportunity to retrieve their personal belongings," the message reads, which was also posted to USAID's government website.

The email also contains a lengthy list of prohibited items that USAID staff are not allowed to bring onto the premises, including BB guns, drills, knives, sabers, swords, nunchucks, ski poles, chlorine and liquid bleach.

Several USAID officials told ABC News that including this list illustrates how agency employees who dedicated their professional lives to foreign assistance are now being treated like violent criminals.

Oh gosh, when it said 'personal belongings' I was thinking of photo of loved one, box of Kleenex, pack of cookies etc. not the sorts of things mentioned above!

 

[ThisIsMe123]

That's because we are tired of the incessant whining over non-essential federal workers being laid off. Not every federal worker is a necessary worker.

And it sounds like they are hiring some back. Problem solved.

It's like. "Let's fire people, oops...just kidding , hire them back!"

We have a monkey running all that.

 

[rjs330]

That's not efficiency. When something is efficient, it also works. If DOGE is breaking things and then gluing some pieces back together (because you know they haven't detected all of their mistakes), then we are not better off. A reasonable person would have investigated and made reasoned choices toward the goal, knowing that breaking stuff is not necessary for efficiency. This administration's approach is way more destructive than it has to be for its goal.

If the argument truly is its less efficient to fire people and then hire some back than it would be to thoroughly vet the jobs and people then fire the ones who really need to be let go, then I can't argue with that. It would take more time to do it rhat way, but it would be better in my opinion.

 

[essentialsaltes]

National parks already feel the effects of layoffs, even before the busy season starts​

Florissant Fossil Beds National Monument in Colorado posted on Facebookthat as of this week, it is closed on Mondays and Tuesdays, "due to a lack of staffing."

Saguaro National Park in Arizona says its visitor centers will be closed on Mondays until further notice. Yosemite National Park announced it is delaying reservation bookings at five of its popular campgrounds, affecting reservations in June and July.

Responding to reports of staffing shortages causing wait times twice as long as usual at the Grand Canyon last weekend, Arizona Gov. Katie Hobbs called it "a slap in the face for Arizonans and all who love to come here." (The Grand Canyon National Park referred comment to the NPS.)

"I can't tell you what summer visitors at Acadia — what that experience is going to be like," he said. "I can't tell you if the campgrounds are going to be open. I can't tell you if the reservation system for Cadillac [Mountain] is going to be up and running. I can't tell you if trails are going to be closed, because if there's a dead tree overhanging a trail, you need highly skilled, certified folks that might be able to climb and drop a tree with a chainsaw."

[Ha, at this rate by summer we won't be taking vacations, anyway; we'll all be eating cabbage soup in a darkened home, dreaming of eggs.]

 

[RDKirk]

Military families rocked by Trump’s federal government cuts​

For decades now, the federal government has marketed itself as the employer of choice for military spouses, who are unemployed at five times the national rate despite being more educated than their civilian spouse counterparts.

Military spouses and their families move involuntarily every two to three years, on average. As a result, it’s not unusual for those who work in the federal government to frequently change positions or even organizations within their agencies.

Many are perpetually probationary employees — the category of worker the Trump administration targeted in its recent first round of firings.

Arielle Pines had proudly clocked 15 years working at the Department of Veterans Affairs when she was fired by email last week, despite years of exceptional performance reviews.

“It’s not just people who are new to the federal government,” she says, pushing back on a common misconception about probationary employees who are getting the boot.

“There are five of us [in my office] who moved over from other HR departments. We are military spouses, we are veterans, one with 18 years.”

--

There aren’t many jobs out there for people with Ph. Ds who have a specialty in data analytics and move every few years.

But the CDC World Trade Center health program had one. Rachael was on the team that does research and provides services for people whose health was affected by breathing toxic air from the smoldering rubble of Ground Zero after the 9/11 attacks — first responders, workers and residents of lower Manhattan.

“I thought [the terminations] would be a methodical approach: figure out what’s needed, what’s not. But that is not what this is. Instead, it is just blanket firing of probationary employees because they have fewer rights without regard for their function.”

Interesting category. Having dragged a spouse around the country and world myself, I understand the situation.

Overseas, my wife was a DODSS teacher, and yes, each time we moved she essentially started over in "probationary" status even when she'd just left a different DODSS assignment at the previous station. I guess correcting that seemingly silly issue is the clerical change that needed to have been in place.

 

[RDKirk]

If the argument truly is its less efficient to fire people and then hire some back than it would be to thoroughly vet the jobs and people then fire the ones who really need to be let go, then I can't argue with that. It would take more time to do it rhat way, but it would be better in my opinion.

If the intention is to make significant cuts in the federal budget by firing federal civiliian employees, then the real question is: What government services do we intend to curtail? Remember that federal civilian employee costs are only 10% of the federal budget. To make a significant dent in the overall budget from only 10% of the budget, you're talking about severely reducing government services. Failing to say that is deliberate subterfuge.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Trump administration mass firings of federal probationary workers likely unlawful, judge finds​

“OPM does not have any authority whatsoever, under any statute in the history of the universe,” to hire or fire any employees but its own, he said.

 

[wing2000]

U.S. District Judge William Alsup ordered a partial halt to the firings after a hearing on Thursday afternoon. His order covers the Veterans Affairs Department, the National Park Service, the Small Business Administration, the Bureau of Land Management, the National Science Foundation and other agencies whose firings impact the civic groups that sued the Trump administration.

....
In court, the government's attorney argued that OPM had merely asked, not ordered, the agencies to fire probationary employees, drawing a distinction between the two.

The government's attorney said that memo did not constitute an order.

Alsup was unconvinced.

"How could so much of the workforce be amputated suddenly overnight? It's so irregular and widespread, so aberrant in the history of the country," he said from the bench. "I believe they were directed or ordered. That's the way the evidence points."

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/27/nx-s1-5311445/federal-employees-firing-court-judge

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Trump administration mass firings of federal probationary workers likely unlawful, judge finds​

“OPM does not have any authority whatsoever, under any statute in the history of the universe,” to hire or fire any employees but its own, he said.

I now have meteorologists giving their disapproval on social media regarding mass firings

From
Chief Meteorologist
WEHT/WTVW Evansville, IN

NOAA firings

I don't get involved with politics on this page, but I can't stay silent anymore. DOGE today announced a 10% staff reduction at NOAA which includes the National Weather Service, Storm Prediction Center, National Hurricane Center, River Forecast Centers along with several other agencies. Around 1000 people at NOAA lost their jobs (with potentially more to follow), including ones that issue tornado warnings, produce aviation forecasts, and develop/maintain/improve our weather forecast models...scientists who are tasked "to protect life and property from natural disasters by providing weather forecasts and warnings".

We in the private sector do not compete with the National Weather Service...we are a TEAM. The forecasts that I produce on a daily basis rely on computer models from NOAA...the tornado watches come directly from the Storm Prediction Center and the tornado warnings that save lives come directly from our local National Weather Service offices.

No doubt, some cuts need to be made in our federal government, but this indiscriminate slashing of jobs at NOAA will undoubtedly impact the safety & welfare of our country's population. Please let your elected representatives know how you feel about this matter.

I bet those that voted Trump, that got fired, regret voting for him.