• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Trump: Ukraine “Never Should Have Started War” with Russia

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
8,805
3,175
Pennsylvania, USA
✟942,627.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Maybe Shokin was intimidated ( by who I don’t know).



Various street protests demanding Shokin's resignation were held.[20][21][22] On 2 November 2015, there was an assassination attempt against him when an unidentified sniper fired three shots into his office, but was foiled by the bulletproof glass window.[23] In


 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Aug 19, 2018
23,084
15,708
72
Bondi
✟371,199.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
  • Agree
Reactions: Larniavc
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

I ♡ potato pancakes
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,465
6,701
48
North Bay
✟791,288.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You can't tell a good deed from an evil one? What nonsense is this?
careful, to even suggest one can tell the difference between good and evil is "abusive".
 
Upvote 0

stevil

Godless and without morals
Feb 5, 2011
8,548
6,729
✟293,653.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
careful, to even suggest one can tell the difference between good and evil is "abusive".
I take it that it was bad to take from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But then again, before you've taken from the tree, you wouldn't know that it was bad to take from that tree. Even if someone told you not to do it, you wouldn't know it was bad to do it anyway.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

I ♡ potato pancakes
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,465
6,701
48
North Bay
✟791,288.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I take it that it was bad to take from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But then again, before you've taken from the tree, you wouldn't know that it was bad to take from that tree. Even if someone told you not to do it, you wouldn't know it was bad to do it anyway.
I guess not. I never thought about it that way.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
22,390
13,840
Earth
✟241,222.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
I am not sure what Hurricane Donlon" is, perhaps you are confused with "Hurricane Crossfire?" Regardless, I don't understand your point.
Don(ald) (E)lon “Donlon”
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

stevil

Godless and without morals
Feb 5, 2011
8,548
6,729
✟293,653.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I guess not. I never thought about it that way.
It's an interesting story from a metaphorical standpoint. Sorry, I don't know if you take it literally or not.

But the idea, that animals don't know right vs wrong, and thinking about how humans came to the concept of right vs wrong. i.e. started to feast on the tree of knowledge, and then all of a sudden thought it was wrong to be naked.

But, the idea also that humans and all descendants should be punished for committing a "sin" (presumably a wrong doing) for making a decision before they knew the difference of right and wrong. And the idea that it is somehow bad to know the difference between right and wrong, I find that quite weird.

The concept of being "like god" once understanding the difference of right vs wrong, like being on an equal footing rather than needing god to tell you, don't do this because it is "wrong" as if just sticking a label on something makes a difference rather than attaining an understanding.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
22,390
13,840
Earth
✟241,222.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
Ukraine needs a chance to actually breathe to establish a less corrupt situation. It has not had a chance be independent and free of Russian or western manipulations.

I only meant to quote ‘soldier of light’ but accidentally got ‘simply me’ also.
[This isn’t to address debate points but forum workings]
If one hits quote to respond, thinks better of it and deletes the draft, one has to reload the page to ensure that the draft is out of the buffer, otherwise it’ll be placed the top of another quoted section.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

I ♡ potato pancakes
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,465
6,701
48
North Bay
✟791,288.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It is not strange at all

As for Churchill an Zelenski it seems there was bipartisan support for postponing an election due
to a war
A quick Google search provided no evidence for that. Do you have a source to prove that Churchill postponed the election?

If you can prove it, we can all relax, and take a deep breath of reassurance. If not, it means corruption has found us, here, as lies are being spread... Which is not good.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
8,805
3,175
Pennsylvania, USA
✟942,627.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
It's an interesting story from a metaphorical standpoint. Sorry, I don't know if you take it literally or not.

But the idea, that animals don't know right vs wrong, and thinking about how humans came to the concept of right vs wrong. i.e. started to feast on the tree of knowledge, and then all of a sudden thought it was wrong to be naked.

But, the idea also that humans and all descendants should be punished for committing a "sin" (presumably a wrong doing) for making a decision before they knew the difference of right and wrong. And the idea that it is somehow bad to know the difference between right and wrong, I find that quite weird.

The concept of being "like god" once understanding the difference of right vs wrong, like being on an equal footing rather than needing god to tell you, don't do this because it is "wrong" as if just sticking a label on something makes a difference rather than attaining an understanding.
The main consequence of Adam & Eve was death ( Romans 5:12-14). It was Cain who brought on our moral decline ( 1 John 3:11-12, Genesis 4:1-15).
 
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Barshai
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
5,436
2,250
Poway
✟375,114.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Maybe none of us know what we are talking about. :p

This is going to be a long, long post.
At the same time, bad behavior should be discouraged, right? And stealing your neighbors land should be made, 'more difficult'..? So as to not make a habit out of it.
I agree with this. Bad behavior that is inconsistent with Biblical morality and the Western rule of law should be punished. At least, within American borders. But I generally tend to think that Ukraine subscribes to Western rule of law, at least as much as it tries to defend its own sovereignty from an invader.

The invasion of Ukraine, however, is an affront to Western rule of law, not Biblical principles. Western rule of law is is a flawed human system of morality and there are problems with it. For example, Western rule of law would not allow Iraq to divide itself into three nations based on its three ethnic/religious groups: all of those groups should submit to the Iraqi government. That is a problem with rule of law: it does not give sovereignty to minorities or self-determination to those subjugated by a much larger group. However, Ukraine is a sovereign nation despite being a minority in comparison to Russia, so under Western rule of law, we are defending Ukraine.

Really? So you're saying the Hand of God, so to speak, is responsible for the Holocaust? Wow!

...And it's because God didn't love the Jews.

This is what I'm gathering from your post's content. Correct me if I'm wrong.
God's sovereign will is responsible for the Holocaust, the same way as any other calamity. However, I don't think "because God didn't love the Jews" is a 100% correct and complete reason. There are multiple purposes behind any event that God allows to occur. The ministry of Corrie Ten Boom came out of the Holocaust too; that's another reason. A book called Man's Search For Meaning would never have been written without the Holocaust. And on and on.

God does, in some respect, love the Jewish people, at least enough to rescue them from the Babylonian exile (see Isaiah 39-48) through Cyrus. But Romans 9 describes the current state of affairs, where there are "vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" in the Jewish people as well as every other nation on earth. God's focus of loving attention in this age is not on the Jewish people, but on his bride, the church.

The problem is that you don't.

You can't tell a good deed from an evil one? What nonsense is this?
I am not personally responsible for Putin's invasion of Ukraine and the United States is not responsible for Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Individually and as a nation, I am not responsible for that evil man's behavior.

You are confusing "deciding what right and wrong is" and "determining which deeds are right or wrong based on a system of morality". I can go back to the Bible, or the Western Rule of Law, or my own conscience, or whatever moral authority you manage to dig up, and determine which deeds are good and evil, based on whatever system that is. I am fully capable of doing that, and that is not an abuse if both of us agree to that system of morality. It would not be an abuse to hold a fellow Christian to following the Scriptures, but it would be an abuse for me to expect you to follow the Scriptures and punish you for not doing so, because you are an atheist and do not agree. It would not be an abuse to expect a fellow American to follow Rule of Law, but it may be an abuse to expect a Saudi Arabian, an Omanian, or a Sudanese to do so, because they do not believe in rule of law.

Likewise, if I independently decide that wearing green on Tuesday is morally wrong and go around punishing everyone who wears green on Tuesday, I am an abusive monster. If I make up my own moral rules and expect everyone else around to follow them in order to escape punishment, I am an abuser.
careful, to even suggest one can tell the difference between good and evil is "abusive".
It's not. People escape from abusers by rejecting said abusers' independently derived morality systems and deferring to Biblical morality to prove said abusers wrong. They throw out one corrupt morality system and exchange it for a better one.

Simply determining what right and wrong is, based on an established morality system, is not an abuse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

stevil

Godless and without morals
Feb 5, 2011
8,548
6,729
✟293,653.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
The main consequence of Adam & Eve was death ( Romans 5:12-14). It was Cain who brought on our moral decline ( 1 John 3:11-12, Genesis 4:1-15).
Yeah, that would be destroying the whole concept of knowledge of good and evil, and so to me is a very much less interesting way to look at the story. Of course all living things die, that's a given. Perhaps the story has been adjusted to "explain" why if god created a perfect world there is so much pain and suffering in the world. Again, not a very interesting concept for an atheist because it is obvious why there is pain and suffering.

For me the only interesting take home of the story, is that the people writing the bible stories were wondering why humans have a sense of right and wrong, why humans feel ashamed to be naked where other animals don't seem to care. The myth story is an interesting and yet imaginative memorable story highlighting the concept of knowledge of right and wrong and trying to separate us from the other animals, trying to make us god like.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

I ♡ potato pancakes
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,465
6,701
48
North Bay
✟791,288.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
God's sovereign will is responsible for the Holocaust, the same way as any other calamity.
So you don't believe in free will, everything is God's sovereign will... So is that Calvinism?
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,220
8,523
Canada
✟885,533.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Barshai
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
5,436
2,250
Poway
✟375,114.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
So you don't believe in free will, everything is God's sovereign will... So is that Calvinism?
I do not believe in extreme Calvinist positions such as limited atonement. I simply believe that God is powerful enough to direct human free will for his own purposes.

I mean, human game designers and human website designers direct the free will of other human players or visitors. Should we not expect the ability to direct human free will from the God who controls all of reality?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Vambram

Born-again Christian; Constitutional conservative
Site Supporter
Dec 3, 2006
7,769
5,654
60
Saint James, Missouri
✟361,284.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Democrats says the same thing about President Trump, that doesn’t make it true.

Democrats make similar claims about President Trump; however, that does not necessarily mean they are true. Zelensky is democratically elected President, end of the story.
Pleas Look up the topic on a good search engine about the religious persecution in Ukraine.
 
Upvote 0