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Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

Strong in Him

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Why don't you take God at his word, the whole Bible is the inspired word of God whether is be a metaphor or a parable or even poetry.
Why don't you try to understand what people write instead of answering the same questions again and again?
I take Genesis 1 very seriously as it was God's way in teaching us about the earth & the cosmos so we don't fall into deception in the latter days.
a) Genesis teaches us hardly anything about the earth - that's why you couldn't answer the questions I asked you earlier about how trees were made, and so on.
b) "falling into deception" means listening to other people teaching untruths about Jesus and the Gospel. Just like in the early church when Judaisers stared saying people had to be circumcised to be saved.
Believing that the earth is flat won't stop Christians from denying Jesus if they are persecuted for their faith. If a Christian has a tragedy in their lives, they feel that God should have stopped it or answered their prayers, and they turn away from him, the shape of the earth is not going to help them one bit. Cults like the JWs, Moonies, Christian Scientists etc did not start because the founders decided that the earth was a certain shape. When they are trying to persuade people to join their group, they don't do it by talking about the shape of the earth but by twisting Scriptures and teaching untruths about the Gospel. They insist their leader has the truth - not because of the shape of the earth but because he/she has been given a revelation about God that no one else has ever had.
No one in the early church who turned away did so because of the shape of the earth - read John 6:66. They did do because faith, or discipleship, was too difficult.

The Bible is not a science textbook and God is not a science teacher.
 
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Strong in Him

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But it had every to do with believing in space & NASA which I don't, not anymore.
It had nothing to do with NASA!
It was a fictional programme. The members of the Starship Enterprise were played by ACTORS, not astronauts. William Shatner was NOT the captain of a starship but an actor who had many roles. Leonard what's-his-name was also a murderer in "Columbo"

Watching Star Trek to learn about space is about as sensible as watching Bill & Ben to learn about gardening.
 
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Strong in Him

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Rubbish it teaches all that we need to know,
Then why couldn't you answer any of my previous questions?
Were trees created fully grown, or as saplings/acorns? How did God make a dragonfly's nervous system? How did he decide which animals to cover in fur, and which to give feathers or skin? How did he decide that some plants would flower every year, some every 2 years and some only for one season?

God is a science teacher - right? So why doesn't he teach me these things? Because I want to know.
 
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Apple Sky

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It had nothing to do with NASA!
It was a fictional programme

I know this :doh:

I was just trying to show you how I too once believed in all this space jargon as I once upon a time I used to watch Star Trek, now I just laugh at it & think it is the most brainwashing program out, especially for kids.

& William Shatner even today is still deceiving our kids.
 
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Apple Sky

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Then why couldn't you answer any of my previous questions?
Were trees created fully grown, or as saplings/acorns? How did God make a dragonfly's nervous system? How did he decide which animals to cover in fur, and which to give feathers or skin? How did he decide that some plants would flower every year, some every 2 years and some only for one season?

God is a science teacher - right? So why doesn't he teach me these things? Because I want to know.

I don't know you'll have to ask God.
Ask and you shall receive.
 
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Strong in Him

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I know this :doh:
Well stop writing as though Star Trek is a factual programme that was designed to teach about space, then.
I was just trying to show you how I too once believed in all this space jargon as I once upon a time I used to watch Star Trek, now I just laugh at it & think it is the most brainwashing program out, especially for kids.
It's not brainwashing; it's fiction.
You'll be telling me next that Goldilocks was a cookery book, aimed at teaching people how to make porridge!
 
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Strong in Him

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I don't know you'll have to ask God.
Exactly.
You don't know because the Bible doesn't tell us - even though you say it teaches us all about the earth.
God hasn't told us in the Bible - his word - because that is not what he wants to teach us. He wants us to know that HE is our Creator, that we can have a relationship with him, be children of God and find forgiveness through Jesus.
The shape of the earth has nothing at all to do with that.
 
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Phil G

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Why don't you take God at his word, the whole Bible is the inspired word of God whether is be a metaphor or a parable or even poetry.
I take Genesis 1 very seriously as it was God's way in teaching us about the earth & the cosmos so we don't fall into deception in the latter days.
This isn't a great thing to say. It's quite judgmental of not just me, but majority of Christians in the world. I absolutely do take God at His word. The problem is you're cherry picking verses which you want to take hyper-literally when the Bible frequently expresses literal truths through metaphor, poetry, parables and phenomenological language. In those cases it takes study to discern the truth being expressed, a lateral thinking rather than a literal reading.

A simple and extreme example is Jesus saying that He is the true vine. Taking Him at His word with a hyper-literal approach would lead to an understanding that Jesus is literally a vine. But that's obviously wrong. Would you put up with somebody insisting that you are not taking Jesus at His word if you didn't believe that He is literally a vine? I don't think you would!

So what did Jesus mean then? He meant that He supplies the spiritual nourishment for all His followers (the implication being they are the branches of the true vine). They will not produce fruit without Him. Isn't that a beautiful message? It keeps us focused on Him as our only source of nourishment to help us produce good fruit. Where's anything to do with the shape of the earth there? What possible benefit would it be to insist that Jesus is literally a vine?

This is the approach I take to Scripture. Studying the message of God's words without getting hung up on a hyper-literal reading.

Genesis 1:14 is an example of a verse that you get hung up on. It talks about God setting lights in the firmament. The two words that you get hung up on are "lights and "firmament". I don't get hung up on those because the message to me is that God created the sun and moon that I see in the sky. I don't accept someone insisting that I'm not taking God at His word by believing this message.

When I actually do a study on these words, I see that first, the Bible was not written in English, so I must look at the original Hebrew meanings. When I do that I see that the Hebrew word translated as "lights" also means "luminaries". Luminaries are objects that give off light but they don't have to be their own source of light. Am I taking God at His word if I accept that "lights" can mean the moon is not its own source of light? Yes I am.

The word translated as "firmament" I find can mean "expanse", which is not something necessarily solid. And when I look up Youngs Literal Translation (YLT) Bible, I find this:

"And God saith, `Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a separation between the day and the night, then they have been for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years," Genesis1:14 YLT

I have been told by a Hebrew and Greek Bible teacher that YLT is a good translation for study. So I know I'm not going too far wrong in using it. But look..."luminaries" & "expanse" are right in there!

Am I taking God at His word by reading Genesis 1 as it is written in the YLT Bible? Yes I am! Because God's word is telling me that He created the sun and the moon and placed them in the sky that I see. To tell me otherwise is extremely judgemental.

The end time deception is not that the earth is a globe. It's believing that God is not God. It's the deception of anti-Christ, that he is God. Trying to claim that globe earth belief is the end time deception is the scaremongering of flat earthers to get followers for their own deception.

Don't forget it's only been 500 years since Nicolaus Copernicus told us the earth was moving sphere, how would he know ? And then Martin Luther warned us of this deception. So forgive me if I'm an ardent flat earther.
It was known that the earth is a rotating globe before Copernicus said it. As far as I'm aware he said this in 1515. However the oldest surviving physical globe model is from the 1490's.


So obviously it was well known that the earth is a globe before Copernicus.
 
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Apple Sky

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A simple and extreme example is Jesus saying that He is the true vine. Taking Him at His word with a hyper-literal approach would lead to an understanding that Jesus is literally a vine. But that's obviously wrong. Would you put up with somebody insisting that you are not taking Jesus at His word if you didn't believe that He is literally a vine? I don't think you would!

Of course not I do know the difference but in Genesis 1 there is no such writing as this, what we read is the truth.
 
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Apple Sky

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When I actually do a study on these words, I see that first, the Bible was not written in English, so I must look at the original Hebrew meanings. When I do that I see that the Hebrew word translated as "lights" also means "luminaries". Luminaries are objects that give off light but they don't have to be their own source of light.

Isaiah 13:10
The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
 
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Phil G

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Isaiah 13:10
The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
This is talking about a miraculous future event. It’s not describing the cosmos as it is now. God is the God of His own creation. He can suspend all the laws of physics as they are now for this to happen.

The moon not giving its light still includes reflected light. The verse does not define the moon’s light, just that it gives off light. That light can be reflected as Genesis 1 indicates.

You are not God.
 
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David Lamb

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Then why is it that some say Moses wrote Gen 1 on how he understood the earth to be at that time ?
Wasn't Gen 1 the inspired word of God.
Yes, of course Genesis 1 is part of God's inspired word. I am sure some of the human writers God used for His word didn't fully understand everything they wrote - think of the Old Testament prophecies about the coming Saviour for example. I don't suppose that Isaiah understood fully those Messianic prophecies, such as:

“Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.” (Isa 53:4-5 NKJV)

So how Moses understood the creation of the earth makes no difference; what he wrote was inspired by God. Anyway, Genesis 1 doesn't mention the earth's shape.
 
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