Trump EO eliminates Birthright Citizenship; 18 states and civil rights organizations sue to stop implementation, pointing to the 14th Amendment

[Always in His Presence]

It depends if you just deport them for serious crimes all that does is basically give them no penalty either. On the other hand, if a person is only here illegally and that is their only crime that does not mean that they are a bad person and in many cases they want to do well and help soceity.

What is the penalty for crossing Illegally - you seem to be saying that you can break the law and as long as you are a good person, there is no penalty.

 

[Nithavela]

It's not a matter of ending it. It's a matter of it shouldn't apply to those who are in the US illegally.

You mean that the babies are illegally in the USA while in their mother's womb?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It's not a matter of ending it. It's a matter of it shouldn't apply to those who are in the US illegally.

That may be your opinion, but the wording of the 14th amendment does not support that view. The only caveat that it provides is that the parents must be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. And any person in the US, regardless of immigration status, is subject to the jurisdiction of the US. The only exceptions to this are foreign diplomats, who are legally only subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. The Mexican ambassador, for example, cannot be issued a speeding ticket, because he is not subject to US laws.

Therefore, if you wish to end birthright citizenship, you will need to modify the 14th amendment.

 

[ozso]

The amendment was set up to apply to anyone born here, so until it is editted that is what we are working with, and thus it cannot be changed without a process.

It's a matter of closing a loophole rather that changing an amendment.

 

[Always in His Presence]

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien​

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.​

​

​

 

[Bradskii]

Right - and when a person is ILLEGALLY in the US - what is the penalty?

It depends on the situation. They may be working and going through the process of being granted a green card, married to a US citizen, applying for asylum. There will be due process to be followed.

Are you suggesting that you ignore due process, deny justice and deport them immediately whatever their circumstances?

 

[ozso]

You mean that the babies are illegally in the USA while in their mother's womb?

No I mean babies born to those in the country illegally.

 

[Nithavela]

No I mean babies born to those in the country illegally.

But the question isn't if the MOTHER is under the jurisdiction, but if the child is, isn't it? The baby is it's own person.

 

[ozso]

That may be your opinion, but the wording of the 14th amendment does not support that view. The only caveat that it provides is that the parents must be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. And any person in the US, regardless of immigration status, is subject to the jurisdiction of the US. The only exceptions to this are foreign diplomats, who are legally only subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. The Mexican ambassador, for example, cannot be issued a speeding ticket, because he is not subject to US laws.

Therefore, if you wish to end birthright citizenship, you will need to modify the 14th amendment.

Which isn't a matter ending it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

What is the penalty for crossing Illegally - you seem to be saying that you can break the law and as long as you are a good person, there is no penalty.

The penalty is usually deportion, but at this point I am inclined to think for a few reasons that people who have been pulling their weight and whose only crime is being here should have a chance at cititzenship. On the other hand if we simply deport those who have committed major crimes murder, rape things like that then either they will have really gotten away with that and will have more victims back home OR they will come back here as they will not be locked up.

Just like I believe both Canada and the UK will not deport people to the Uited States if that person is facing the death penaltyso yes that means that if I am right then if you murder someone here and make it to Canada the ONLY way you will face the penalty is if the state agrees to not seek the death penalty, so if you just deport someone who has committed a MAJOR violent crime like that then basically there is no penalty for that because they are just released into their home country.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

But the question isn't if the MOTHER is under the jurisdiction, but if the child is, isn't it? The baby is it's own person.

Both are under the jurisdiction of the United States - simply being present on US soil puts you under US jurisdiction, unless you're a foreign diplomat.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It depends on the situation. They may be working and going through the process of being granted a green card, married to a US citizen, applying for asylum. There will be due process to be followed.

Are you suggesting that you ignore due process, deny justice and deport them immediately whatever their circumstances?

If they came through the borders - like my parents and filed the paperwork - like my parents - they would not be illegal aliens -

Are you suggesting that you ignore true definitions?

 

[RileyG]

What about people who have been here for decades and only know the United States as their home?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It's a matter of closing a loophole rather that changing an amendment.

Will the language of the amendment need to be changed?

 

[RileyG]

One of the consequences of repealing birthright citizenship is that a child born to aliens in the US does not in all circumstances automatically acquire the nationality of its parent(s). Thus, the child will be stateless, a citizen of no country at all.

That’s really unfortunate

 

[iluvatar5150]

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien​

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.​

​

​

If the US can fine and imprison them, then they're under American jurisdiction, er go, Trump's EO doesn't apply to them.

 

[Pommer]

You mean that the babies are illegally in the USA while in their mother's womb?

Maybe they’ll (the babies) will have to have been conceived within the Untied States?
Won’t that be a fun thread!?

 

[Nithavela]

What about people who have been here for decades and only know the United States as their home?

I don't see anything indiciating that Trump will make exceptions for anyone.

 

[RileyG]

Trump signs order ending birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants​

President Trump signed an executive order on Monday ending birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants -- one of a slew of border-related orders he is signing to overhaul U.S. immigration policy and border security.

"The privilege of United States citizenship is a priceless and profound gift," Trump says in the order.

The President can veto an already established amendment? Or, if I understand correctly, this only applies to people here illegally? Correct?

 

[dogs4thewin]

It's a matter of closing a loophole rather that changing an amendment.

How so? Yes the amendment was not meant for its current usage, but then again when it was written people coming here for citizenship was not a thing really. Therefore, in order to end birthright citizenship we would need another amendment or at least to revise the 14th amendment.