Woman who preaches in Church

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Protestantism started their free for all 500 years ago

Protestantism has roots in the Bible

 

[com7fy8]

Have you noticed that after Jesus rose from the dead He **appeared first to Mary** and He had her tell the disciples that He was risen?

John and Peter came to the tomb **before** Jesus appeared first to Mary. He could have appeared to them first, but He did not appear to them but to Mary after they had left.

And He told her to tell the disciples that He had risen and she had seen Him, and He had a message to pass on to them . . . for **her** to pass on.

So, if a woman has something to say to me, I listen.

But I may have known a few women who can teach and preach and pastor, but they do not live in Jesus Christ's "rest for your souls" > Jesus guarantees us >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

So, I understand that Jesus will give us rest while we do whatever is really His calling for each of us. So, instead of telling a woman that Jesus will or will not call her to preach, I encourage her to submit to Jesus and discover what He has her doing in His rest for her soul - - - I mean, even at each moment, see what Jesus has you doing and this will add up to whatever Jesus really has called you to d.

Jesus ordained His twelve >

"that they might be with Him, and that He might send them out to preach" >

This is in Mark 3:14. So, their basic calling was not to preach, but "that they might be with Him". And if we are with Jesus, I would say we are sharing with Him in His peace. And part of our calling as God's children is to obey God in His peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, first we are called to be with Jesus and submissive to Him in His own peace. Then discover what He has us doing with Him in His peace, as **His** meaning of whatever He really has called us to do.

I would say I have personally known some number of men and women who have been pastors and they were very controlling of their churches, but not in very good control of their tempers and their eating habits. It is written >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

Both men and women can be what I call "unsubject" . . . incapable of a mutually submissive relationship. They can not be >

"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (in James 1:19)

And such unsubject people . . . men as well as women . . . can be pastors who are very controlling of others, but not in beneficial control of themselves.

Jesus . . . yes . . . has called people to pastor and to preach . . . while being "examples".

Now . . . if I am an example, this includes that I a man be a good example for ladies. And if I am their example, this means I am doing what **they** need to do. This includes how I am humble and gentle and submissive . . . with discernment, of course, so I am not going along with what is wrong and what God is not leading me to do.

And any time I listen to what a lady is saying to me, I am being submissive to her. She is not usurping authority over me, by having me listen to her. She is not **over** me but we are mutually submissive if both of us are being submissive to the Holy Spirit in how we share with each other.

And a lady in marriage has power, authority, over her man's body . . . right? If the wife has authority over her man's body, she has authority "over" him, I would think. 1 Corinthians chapter seven. This is good and rightful authority, not usurping authority "over" him. But there is mutual and sharing and caring intimacy deeper and better than physical pleasure and intimacy; so she is not only using him for pleasure she wants, but she is using authority to do loving good for him.

So . . . like this . . . in ministry which is Christian, there is not distant relating but we are personal with each other, with trusting, even, in God's way of loving. But trust is not blind, but we test and make sure with God about what God knows is "good" >

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

You surprise me, Maria, at your contra-Biblical thinking.

I truly believe it is not the Fathers will that women be silenced. I believe it was Paul's will at that moment in time due to unfortunate circumstances. That being said, I don't think a woman Pastoring an entire church would be as successful as a married man with children.

 

[NBB]

I go to a 'similar' church, and God has used her to do miracles, is a small church, but there are several people that got healed by God through her prayers, one of terminal cancer. Also i can sense His presence there, there are worlds apart to what God can do, just by believing in the correct theology of being filled with the Holy spirit, this is one of the most important things for a christian to do.

 

[Paidiske]

What are you opinions on this for and against?

If God has called her, and her church has authorised her to preach, then let her preach in peace. You can decide for yourself whether you find her preaching helpful to you.

 

[Jeff Carr]

As I wrote on another thread, where would the mission field be without women? They out number men 3 to 1. They preach the Gospel, plant churches, feed the believers and God seems to bless their efforts!

 

[CoreyD]

Hallo

i attend a conservative Pentecostal church and last sunday didn`t we have any services.
So i went to another service at a Pentecostal church with a female preacher.
What are you opinions on this for and against?

Timothy chapter 2 verses 11-12 says
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.

12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

Happy new year to all God bless

I'm in agreement with the Bible, which you quoted.
God has put an arrangement in place, and if we are to submit to God, then we follow his arrangement. not decide when we will accept something, or when we will rationalize why we don't need to.
God, as the God of order, has an arrangement.
1 Corinthians 14:33; 1 Corinthians 11:3

Many women do not like it, but we are either worldly in our thinking, or we are spiritual.
The worldly women also complain about the headship arrangement.
If persons want to take the worldly attitude, rather than submit, they are only doing what some Israelites did... and we know what the outcome was.
When they opposed Moses, they were really opposing God.
These lessons are there for us to learn from, so that we do not suffer the same fate, as the proud an stubborn Israelites.
1 Corinthians 10:6-11

 

[Jermayn]

Hallo

i attend a conservative Pentecostal church and last sunday didn`t we have any services.
So i went to another service at a Pentecostal church with a female preacher.
What are you opinions on this for and against?

Timothy chapter 2 verses 11-12 says
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.

12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

Happy new year to all God bless

Hi Birck,

Some of the arguments for women preaching and/or pastoring churches you've been presented with in this thread don't take into account the entire book of 1st Timothy or why it was being written. Paul was instructing Timothy on how to properly oversee the church in Ephesus in this book. He immediately follows his instructions about women teaching with qualifications on becoming an overseer (pastor) of a church, one of which is to be a husband of but one wife. Now, how can a woman be the husband of but one wife? Here we see a perfect example of the slippery slope churches who compromise with the world end up on. If you watch some of the more recent Southern Baptist Conventions, you will notice people say they need to "have a conversation" about women pastors. Once that door is open, next comes the "conversation" about homosexual pastors. Then transgender pastors. Usually, by this point, Jesus is an afterthought in said "church".

As for arguments that Paul only restricted women from pastoring/preaching due to the culture at the time, we need only look to verses 13 and 14 in that same chapter.

13For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

Now, that's an odd thing to say if we are to believe the cultural arguments being presented, right? Were the women of Ephesus the only women who were descended from Adam and Eve? I don't think I need to elaborate any further on this one.

Finally, you've seen many arguments saying Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene, thereby making it acceptable for women to preach/pastor because she took the message of Christ's resurrection back to the apostles. Yes, this was a great honor, however, Jesus did not make Mary Magdalene the leader of the Apostles, or anyone else, nor did telling them what she had witnessed qualify as teaching or exercising authority over them. Mary did not first go start a church and then invite the Apostles over for Sunday service so she could school them on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus told her to relay a message, and she did. Do pastors relay the message of the Gospel Jesus told them to relay? Yes, along with many other functions they have been given authority to do as overseers of the church.

 

[Postvieww]

Hello!

Actually it was.

(1 Corinthians 14:34) the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

God Bless and Happy New Year to you.

Then explain the prophetess’s, it would be hard for a woman to prophecy with her mouth shut. Then we have to explain deaconess’s. Don’t forget Junia the apostle. Not mention all of the women God has chosen to use over the ages. Don’t forget all women do not have husbands. This is not an open and shut case as many men try to portray it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, the Bible is my authority. . .

The Bible can't possibly be your authority if you're misinterpreting and misapplying it. Again, the truth is, the Biblical books and letters weren't written in a non-historical vacuum.

It's time for people to wake up to this FACT and realize that the Lord and the truth in the Reality He made is BIGGER than the Bible alone.

 

[Postvieww]

Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Only two other references found in Greek Literature to the name Junia apart from this one are women.

Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Servant 1249 diakonos : Strongs concordance, teacher , pastor, deacon, deaconess, minister , servant.

Same Greek word as

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

How can Phebe be a severant of the church in silence? Some even think she was a deacon. Servant strongs word 1249 same as translated deacon in Philippians 1;1, 1 Timothy 3:8 and 3:12


The context of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is wives not women in general. If we are to accept the false interpretation that all women are to always be silent in church there is a conflict with 1 Corinthians 11:5, Acts 2:17-18 and others.

God can, has, does, and will continue to use women in His service despite those that try to set them down and shut them up on the basis of a misinterpretation and reading of a few select scriptures.


There is no doubt men are predominate in leadership roles in scripture, but God is not bound by what we think “may” be correct doctrine. It is equally clear from scripture God has mightily used women in His service.


How can a woman pray or prophesy in church if she is always to remain silent?


1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.


Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


Not all woman have husbands.

Since this passage and 1 Timothy 2:11 both refer to learning are we to believe that all women are in subjection to all men or just married women to their husbands?


Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Aquilla and Priscilla both expounded the word of God.


A one size fits all approach to this is in my opinion error. There is much more in the word of God about women that one or two passages used out of context to hinder women from serving God.

 

[CoreyD]

A church that has a female pastor lives in a rebellion, and there will be horrible consequences if they do not repent.

Nowadays, more and more churches allow sin in their church. They go against the Word of God because they think they know better. God called unfaithful Israel a prostitute in OT, wonder what He calls unfaithful church.

A prostitute. Revelation 17:1-18:24

 

[PloverWing]

If you watch some of the more recent Southern Baptist Conventions, you will notice people say they need to "have a conversation" about women pastors. Once that door is open, next comes the "conversation" about homosexual pastors. Then transgender pastors. Usually, by this point, Jesus is an afterthought in said "church".

I object to this last sentence. Please do not characterize those who disagree with you as having Jesus as an "afterthought". Churches who allow people of all genders to serve as pastors take this position with the intent of faithfully following the teachings of Jesus. Churches who restrict ordination to only men also see themselves as following the teachings of Jesus.

We disagree, and it's an important disagreement, but we should at least respect that Christians who disagree with us are genuinely trying to follow Jesus, even if we understand his teachings differently.

 

[CoreyD]

As I wrote on another thread, where would the mission field be without women? They out number men 3 to 1. They preach the Gospel, plant churches, feed the believers and God seems to bless their efforts!

I like your expression - mission field.
Yes. The Lord gives the word; The women who proclaim the good news are a great host: Psalm 68:11

The women likely outnumbered the men

• 
  when Jesus went out with the 12. Luke 8:1-3
  1 Now it came to pass, afterward, that He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with Him, 2 and certain women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities - Mary called Magdalene, out of whom had come seven demons, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Him from their substance.

• 
  when Jesus sent out the 70. Luke 10:1, 2
  1 After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. 2 Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. 5 But whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’

Many women would have accompanies the apostles, including Philips daughters.
Acts 21:8, 9
8 On the next day we who were Paul’s companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.

...and those that worked with Paul. Philippians 4:3
3 I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life.


The change that occurred after the first century, is what created the problem in the churches today.
In the first century, declaring the good news was done in the "mission field" - that is, in the public squares - Luke 4:42-5:2; Acts 17:17, from city to city, in the villages, and towns - Matthew 9:35; Luke 8:1, from house to house, in the Synagogues, and temples of the Jews - Luke 10:5-12; Acts 5:42, and anywhere where people could be found.

Around the second century, those claiming to be Jesus disciples, moved away from the public ministry, and adopted the clergy (The word cleric comes from the ecclesiastical Latin Clericus, for those belonging to the priestly class,) laity (The word laity means "common people" and comes from the Greek: λαϊκός, romanized: laikos, meaning "of the people", from λαός, laos, meaning "people" at large) position.
So that preaching and spreading the gospel to people everywhere became almost nonexistent, but they felt they were doing it from the pulpit.

That was until the Protestant movement, took missionary work back int othe fields, where it belongs.
In the first century, though, the teachings and talks given in homes (congregations), were not to preach the great commission - Matthew 28:18-20, but rather, to build up the brothers. 2 Corinthians 10:8-11; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Hebrews 13:17

So, now, because most women do not understand the great commission, they want to have authority, which was never given to them, and they therefore complain about the arrangement of God, because their church does not follow the first century practice, but follows the practice that moved away from the one Jesus started, and continues to oversee.

 

[Strong in Him]

2 Tim 2:12-14 does not allow women to have the teaching authority of the pulpit in the assembly.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 does not mention the pulpit or the assembly.

 

[Strong in Him]

It's not about the fuller cultural and historical background of Ephesus, for Paul grounds his prohibition in the principle (timeless order) established at creation (2 Tim 2:13-14).

I disagree.
And that's the wrong reference - for the 2nd time.

 

[CoreyD]

He immediately follows his instructions about women teaching with qualifications on becoming an overseer (pastor) of a church, one of which is to be a husband of but one wife. Now, how can a woman be the husband of but one wife?

That is a good point.

 

[Strong in Him]

A church that has a female pastor lives in a rebellion, and there will be horrible consequences if they do not repent.

Nope.

Nowadays, more and more churches allow sin in their church. They go against the Word of God because they think they know better.

So why doesn't God correct them?
Why doesn't he punish the women involved?
Why are churches with female preachers and clergy growing?
Why doesn't God call so many male preachers that if a woman were to offer the answer would be, "we don't need anyone else"? Indeed, that was something I said to someone when I first joined these forums; "if you think it's wrong for me, and other women, to preach, pray that God will raise up men - and be prepared to do it yourself". I don't remember if I got an answer.

 

[Clare73]

To be expected. Protestantism started their free for all 500 years ago, and then the American variety said "hold my beer" 200 years ago and just does whatever on a church by church basis. There's a solution for that. Come home.

All those of saving faith in Jesus Christ are the church (Eph 5:30-32), and are home in the body of Christ.

 

[Strong in Him]

He immediately follows his instructions about women teaching with qualifications on becoming an overseer (pastor) of a church, one of which is to be a husband of but one wife. Now, how can a woman be the husband of but one wife?

i) He was talking about monogamy, not gender; ONE wife.
ii) I'm assuming you agree that if he must be the husband of one wife, then he must be a husband - single men need not apply. Similarly, if he has to be able to manage his children, he must have children. Are ordinands tested for their fertility, these days? Has anyone been turned away because they, or their wife, are infertile? Has anyone who is intentionally childless been rebuked for disobeying Scripture?

Why would Paul value the qualities of being married and having children over those of faith, love, Bible study, prayer, gifts of the Spirit and so on?