Christians Rebuke John Piper for Calling Trump’s Re-Election Win an ‘Evil’

[Hazelelponi]

People love to loudly express how they think nothing of the Christian faith of the Republican voters who voted for Trump, and loudly express they think it's evil to want what's actually best for people even if people hate it because it's not the new Santa doling out more expensive gifts that do nothing but corrupt the soul.

Maybe people really should think more before they speak. There's new Christians coming to Christ all the time and these types of accusations are ridiculous.

We are Christians doing our very best IN CHRIST for our actual neighbors betterment in dire times fraught with peril.

Like it or leave it, but our behavior towards one another isn't pretty, and must change.

And yes, Republicans ACTUALLY care about the poor.

We simply have a difference of opinion about the role of the church versus the role of government. With a government that is living well beyond it's means, it's a good time to check out all unnecessary expenditures - lest we crash financially.

Why does this matter? So we can keep helping the poor who really need help nationally. There will always be cracks and that's what our individual Christian charity is for. (As Jesus said, the poor will always be among us - but as I say, this country certainly won't if we don't start repenting of our ways).

Not that anyone cares what the great depression was like, but I don't imagine anything like it will be fun for most of the people. Some of us want a stop to the leaks in the dam caused by what at this point just seems like malfeasance.

Sorry it's not pretty enough for people. We have to try and turn the ship around. We are going full speed ahead toward an iceberg. The only question left is whether we can turn it in time.

They spend like drunks on payday. Time to end it - FOR THE LOVE Of OUR NEIGHBORS! !!!

 

[mindlight]

People love to loudly express how they think nothing of the Christian faith of the Republican voters who voted for Trump, and loudly express they think it's evil to want what's actually best for people even if people hate it because it's not the new Santa doling out more expensive gifts that do nothing but corrupt the soul.

Maybe people really should think more before they speak. There's new Christians coming to Christ all the time and this accusations is ridiculous.

We are Christian doing our very best IN CHRIST for our neighbors betterment in dire times fraught with peril.

Like it or leave it, but our behavior towards one another isn't pretty, and must change.

It takes an awful lot of gall and arrogance, for real, to demean the faith of a brother.

And yes, Republicans ACTUALLY care about the poor.

We simply have a difference of opinion about the role of the church versus the role of government. With a government that is living well beyond it's means, it's a good time to check out all unnecessary expenditures - lest we crash financially. Why does this matter? So we can keep helping the poor who really need help nationally. There will always be cracks and that's what our individual charity is for.

Not that anyone cares what the great depression was like, but I don't imagine anything like it will be fun for most of the people. Some of us want a stop to the leaks in the dam caused by what st this point just seems malfeasance.

Sorry it's not pretty enough for people. We have to try and turn the ship around. We are going full speed ahead toward an iceberg. The only question left is whether we can turn it in time.

They spend like drunks on payday. Time to end it - FOR THE LOVE Of OUR NEIGHBORS! !!!

You may well be a woman of God with sincere and deeply held beliefs. You may be someone who wrestled with the rights and wrongs of both parties and came to a considered choice as to which one best served the purpose of God in your generation. You may well be insulted when someone suggests that you did otherwise.

BUT

Can you honestly say that the positions of the Republican party and the thinking behind them mirrors your own? I would suspect you will find there is a bit of a mismatch. Piper is criticizing the Republican Party not you and suggesting it is a different kind of test of evil for the church. That seems fair enough to me as someone who does not have an ax to grind in this discussion. Democrats at their worst are one kind of evil and Republicans at their worst are another - that is common sense.

 

[Yarddog]

One may disagree about who of the two candidates (Trump or Harris) was the lesser evil, but Christians should agree that both are evils.

Harris is a greater evil in respect of moral values (but you cannot trust that Trump will stay pro-life, given his many turns on that matter), Trump is a greater evil as a danger for democracy (he openly opposes the system of check & balance, if he succeeds, the USA will become like Hungary, or even worse).

The forced resignation of Gaetz gives hope that the GOP will resist the attempt to wipe out the Dems by brute »legal« force.

I agree with a lot of what you say but to call Harris the greater evil seems to show a lack of understanding about the scriptures. Yes, Harris supports an evil, abortion rights but Trump represents so much which is evil, according to the Bible.

He loves his money, he loaded with self pride, he is a compulsive liar, he is a fornicator, an adulterer. He is what Jesus told us not to be. Though he claims to be against abortion, he was pro choice up until he ran for President and still wants abortion rights left up to the states. He is not pro-life.

Trump is not the moral choice.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You may well be a woman of God with sincere and deeply held beliefs. You may be someone who wrestled with the rights and wrongs of both parties and came to a considered choice as to which one best served the purpose of God in your generation. You may well be insulted when someone suggests that you did otherwise.

BUT

Can you honestly say that the positions of the Republican party and the thinking behind them mirrors your own? I would suspect you will find there is a bit of a mismatch. Piper is criticizing the Republican Party not you and suggesting it is a different kind of test of evil for the church. That seems fair enough to me as someone who does not have an ax to grind in this discussion. Democrats at their worst are one kind of evil and Republicans at their worst are another - that is common sense.

There's always going to be a mismatch.

There hadn't been many I even thought was worth going to the polls for in my entire life.

But honestly, maybe we wouldn't be here as a nation if more people like myself had done more.

If more Christians had spent their lives instead of running from politics running towards it in order to to keep sanity and justice in our government and our nation.

We have neither sanity nor justice now. Literally neither one is in our government. Everything they do is evil now. Literal evil too, not simply not very wise.

And now, after some 60 years of the sex free for all they shoved down everyone's throats, most young men and women who could do a great job and have good lives and ideas etc that we would want working as public servants, also have dirt under the rug that the establishment uses to control who's in and who's out.

We had people who voted to confirm open nutty cross dressers but suddenly become scandalized by far less when it's someone actually decent who can't be bought.

This is me repenting for my contribution to the state of our country, and not loving my neighbors enough to recognize any of this sooner.

But it's an absolute mess, and this is the best thing we can do, given our situation.

If it fails, then we know we have done our very best by one another, regardless. If it succeeds then we have done right.

 

[Yarddog]

There's always going to be a mismatch.

There hadn't been many I even thought was worth going to the polls for in my entire life.

But honestly, maybe we wouldn't be here as a nation if more people like myself had done more.

If more Christians had spent their lives instead of running from politics running towards it in order to to keep sanity and justice in our government and our nation.

We have neither sanity nor justice now. Literally neither one is in our government. Everything they do is evil now. Literal evil too, not simply not very wise.

And now, after some 60 years of the sex free for all they shoved down everyone's throats, most young men and women who could do a great job and have good lives and ideas etc that we would want working as public servants, also have dirt under the rug that the establishment uses to control who's in and who's out.

We had people who voted to confirm open nutty cross dressers but suddenly become scandalized by far less when it's someone actually decent who can't be bought.

This is me repenting for my contribution to the state of our country, and not loving my neighbors enough to recognize any of this sooner.

But it's an absolute mess, and this is the best thing we can do, given our situation.

If it fails, then we know we have done our very best by one another, regardless. If it succeeds then we have done right.

Why do you stop at 60 years? Immorality has been part of America long before we became an independent country.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Why do you stop at 60 years? Immorality has been part of America long before we became an independent country.

Sex, drugs, rock and roll... Started in the 60's with the hippies.

That was when it became free love.

People forgot why the Bible says things about even the appearance of impropriety should be shunned.

Certainly many fell into that trap, and many fell into sin because of it, or at least the appearance of it making it easier to place over most people's heads, whether actually true or false.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the 1930's, those Christian leaders in Germany who did not acquiesce to the umm .. new establishment .. ultimately found they had to go underground in order to maintain their faithful confession.

They became known as the Confessing Church.

I'm not saying that's happening in America. But I am saying it shouldn't be shocking that when Christians do insist on maintaining their confession against Populism that they will face a great deal of backlash.

These are times of testing. Who will people choose? Christ or Trump? Because no one can serve two masters.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sex, drugs, rock and roll... Started in the 60's with the hippies.

Would you say things were more moral when we had segregation and Jim Crow laws on the books?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hazelelponi]

Would you say things were more moral when we had segregation and Jim Crow laws on the books?

-CryptoLutheran

Yes. Not because those laws were moral, but in the bigger picture yes, everyone and everything was more moral than now.

We've had steamrolling immorality that just gets worse and worse and worse and worse as the days tick by.

Sure, by dumb luck I think there's one or two things we can call improved - but mainly it's just decaying rot and corruption.

 

[Yarddog]

Sex, drugs, rock and roll... Started in the 60's with the hippies.

That was when it became free love.

People forgot why the Bible says things about even the appearance of impropriety should be shunned.

Certainly many fell into that trap, and many fell into sin because of it, or at least the appearance of it making it easier to place over most people's heads, whether actually true or false.

Well, rock began in the '50's, drugs go back further than that. Opium dens were scattered around the country and cocaine was popular in the 1800's. Why do you think Coca Cola was so popular. It contained cocaine. We could call the Founding Fathers that because they were creating more than this country, as many were quite free with whom they had sex with.

America has spread immorality across every decade.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Well, rock began in the '50's, drugs go back further than that. Opium dens were scattered around the country and cocaine was popular in the 1800's. Why do you think Coca Cola was so popular. It contained cocaine. We could call the Founding Fathers that because they were creating more than this country, as many were quite free with whom they had sex with.

America has spread immorality across every decade.

Except for now it's in every institution we have, and the corruption and greed are killing us - nationally.

I think as Christians we have to come together and fix some of this. It's either that or buckle up because hell's coming.

(I mean this in the sense of our nations ruin, which for the little people is a type of hell)

So I'm repenting and being involved the best I am able, and trying to get others to join me. Because it's the right thing to do.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes. Not because those laws were moral, but in the bigger picture yes, everyone and everything was more moral than now.

We've had steamrolling immorality that just gets worse and worse and worse and worse as the days tick by.

Sure, by dumb luck I think there's one or two things we can call improved - but mainly it's just decaying rot and corruption.

Then, frankly, if you believe that was a more moral time, then we simply don't share a basis for what constitutes morality.

I base my morality on the God of Justice revealed in the pages of the Holy Bible, and who is most clearly revealed in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. You know, He was the One who called the "moral people" hypocrites, white-washed sepulchers, and told them they were children of the devil; meanwhile He spent His time eating at the tables of the "immoral people"--prostitutes, tax collectors, lepers, and sinners.

The Jesus I know would more likely be found in the back alley with junkies and single mothers who were thrown out of their house for the "shame" they brought on their families.

- CryptoLutheran, a worshiper of the dirty hippie from Galilee

 

[Yarddog]

Except for now it's in every institution we have, and the corruption and greed are killing us - nationally.

These things have always been of the world. Scripture tells of this

I think as Christians we have to come together and fix some of this. It's either that or buckle up because hell's coming.

Christians needs to start acting like Christians first. Starting at home. Use God as the ultimate Father figure and start being there for our families. Start loving our wives as Jesus loves the Church.

Then, we should start seeing things change.

So I'm repenting and being involved the best I am able, and trying to get others to join me. Because it's the right thing to do.

Amen.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Then, frankly, if you believe that was a more moral time, then we simply don't share a basis for what constitutes morality.

To use a couple small examples.

Has crime in Chicago actually improved in any lasting way? No. In 1970 the murder rate was 24 and in 2021 it was 29 per 100,000.

While there's been fluctuations nothing is screaming that there's any life improvements that matters in the last 50 years against violence.

Plus there were more two parent households under segregation than there are now under welfare.

(And two parent households are necessary for children to thrive in life. Children raised in single parent households are less likely to finish high school, less likely to attend college and more likely to have mental health issues).

Religious life was more prevalent throughout society. In the late 70's, 90% of Americans identified as Christians. Now we are down to 67% a great loss, one that is daily felt.

We have corrupt judges and activist prosecuters and DA's in our cities abd, our laws are little more than a joke in any large city in America.

Our homeless population has more than doubled since 1970 so no lasting improvements on that front, and I'm using 2021 numbers before the migrant crisis (aka invasion).

Our general infrastructure is in disrepair, especially seeing things like Flint Michigan.

Education standards are more than just lacking - especially math - and especially in low income areas.

And I haven't even started on things like the national debt either, and the drunken sailor spending of our federal government.

We have improved by almost no metric on can use, but we have gotten worse.

We were more moral then, even before things like the Jim Crow laws were repealed...

And since the elites haven't made much by way of improvements it's time for us to do it. We can together, or we can fight. But I'm pretty sick of even having to fight in order to get the right thing done.

 

[ViaCrucis]

To use a couple small examples.

Has crime in Chicago actually improved in any lasting way? No. In 1970 the murder rate was 24 and in 2021 it was 29 per 100,000.

While there's been fluctuations nothing is screaming that there's any life improvements that matters in the last 50 years against violence.

Plus there were more two parent households under segregation than there are now under welfare.

(And two parent households are necessary for children to thrive in life. Children raised in single parent households are less likely to finish high school, less likely to attend college and more likely to have mental health issues).

Religious life was more prevalent throughout society. In the late 70's, 90% of Americans identified as Christians. Now we are down to 67% a great loss, one that is daily felt.

We have corrupt judges and activist prosecuters and DA's in our cities abd, our laws are little more than a joke in any large city in America.

Our homeless population has more than doubled since 1970 so no lasting improvements on that front, and I'm using 2021 numbers before the migrant crisis (aka invasion).

Our general infrastructure is in disrepair, especially seeing things like Flint Michigan.

Education standards are more than just lacking - especially math - and especially in low income areas.

Anf I haven't even started on things like the national debt either, and the drunken sailor spending of our federal government.

We have improved by almost no metric on can use, but we have gotten worse.

Would you care for a list of issues that existed in America before 1960?

The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade

The Dredd Scott Decision

The Fugitive Slave Acts of 1793 and 1850

Manifest Destiny

The Trail of Tears

Genocide of Native Americans

The Chinese Exclusion Act

Nativism

Child Exploitation and Labor

Anti-Catholicism

Antisemitism

Jim Crow Laws

Japanese Concentration Camps

Should I continue?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hazelelponi]

Would you care for a list of issues that existed in America before 1960?

The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade

The Dredd Scott Decision

The Fugitive Slave Acts of 1793 and 1850

Manifest Destiny

The Trail of Tears

Genocide of Native Americans

The Chinese Exclusion Act

Nativism

Child Exploitation and Labor

Anti-Catholicism

Antisemitism

Jim Crow Laws

Japanese Concentration Camps

Should I continue?

-CryptoLutheran

No, because it's time for the repentant to do our best.

I have 1 Question - where are the children?

Michael Cloud demands answers from ICE over nearly 300,000 missing migrant children

“The Biden-Harris administration’s failure to track thousands of vulnerable migrant children is unacceptable,” he told the Washington Examiner. “Almost 300,000 children have essentially vanished under their watch, putting them at serious risk of trafficking and exploitation. This administration...

cloud.house.gov

(It's rhetorical, no one knows. They are likely everywhere from pedophile rings to child labor. And it's a horrifying thought. We are done with this in very real ways, as a nation, and for moral reasons.)

 

[RoBo1988]

He has a right to his opinion. I completely disagree with him. I’m just happy that Harris lost.

Biden ran as a "return to normalcy" ; however, once in office he turned loose the ultra left wing, debauchery, and spending. Sounds like he lied. I guess Piper is okay with that. Electing Harris, would have promised more of the same, at warp speed.

I can think of dozens of people I wanted for president besides these two, but this is the hand that was dealt. Trump won.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, because it's time for the repentant to do our best.

I have 1 Question - where are the children?

Michael Cloud demands answers from ICE over nearly 300,000 missing migrant children

“The Biden-Harris administration’s failure to track thousands of vulnerable migrant children is unacceptable,” he told the Washington Examiner. “Almost 300,000 children have essentially vanished under their watch, putting them at serious risk of trafficking and exploitation. This administration...

cloud.house.gov

(It's rhetorical, no one knows. They are likely everywhere from pedophile rings to child labor. And it's a horrifying thought. We are done with this in very real ways, as a nation, and for moral reasons.)

Why bring this up when you are the one in support for the guy who had, as one of their campaign promises, the deportation of millions of immigrants from the US? If Trump succeeds in his mass deportation promise, can you imagine just how many children are going to get separated from their families and lost in the system and--who knows what?

It was horrible the last time he was in office,

How a Trump-era policy that separated thousands of migrant families came to pass

The Trump administration's "zero tolerance" immigration policy separated over 5,000 children from their parents, with no tracking process or records that would allow them to be reunited. Atlantic staff writer Caitlin Dickerson joins Geoff Bennett to discuss her investigation into the policy.

www.pbs.org

It's going to be horrible again.

If you care about children, then you don't support someone like Donald Trump.

You don't hire the fox to watch the chicken coup.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Vambram]

Why bring this up when you are the one in support for the guy who had, as one of their campaign promises, the deportation of millions of immigrants from the US? If Trump succeeds in his mass deportation promise, can you imagine just how many children are going to get separated from their families and lost in the system and--who knows what?

It was horrible the last time he was in office,

How a Trump-era policy that separated thousands of migrant families came to pass

The Trump administration's "zero tolerance" immigration policy separated over 5,000 children from their parents, with no tracking process or records that would allow them to be reunited. Atlantic staff writer Caitlin Dickerson joins Geoff Bennett to discuss her investigation into the policy.

www.pbs.org

It's going to be horrible again.

If you care about children, then you don't support someone like Donald Trump.

You don't hire the fox to watch the chicken coup.

-CryptoLutheran

According to the authorities, there are well over 300,000 undocumented immigrant children who are unaccounted for. Nobody in the federal government, or in the state governments, know where those children are. Those kids must be found and rescued if they are being abused in any way shape, form, or fashion.

 

[zippy2006]

If you care about children, then you don't support someone like Donald Trump.

Emotional hogwash.