The Unbalanced View Of Christ

[rjs330]

I am.postimg this here rather than theology, because we are seeing today how an unbalanced view of Christ is affecting Christians philosophy and ethics. Including entire churches. These philosophies are driving people on how they vote and what they support in society. It also drives them to consider themselves the "better Christians".

This unbalanced understanding of Christ is usually presented as things like:
1. Jesus taught us to love our neighbors
2. Jesus taught forgiveness
3. Jesus taught mercy
5. Jesus taught kindness
6. Jesus didn't tell people how they had to live
7. Jesus taught us to give

This unbalanced approach leads people to come to false conclusions about other believers, mainly conservative or more fundamental believers. These falsities lead them to conclude that more conservative believers

1. Hate people
2. Don't want to help people
3. They are misogynistic
4. They are bigots
5. They are mean
6. They just don't care about people
7. They want to.control everyone

How to we know that the unbalanced believers are actually unbalanced and not correct? I mean didn't Christ preach and show us
1. How to live
2. How to forgive
3. How to have mercy
4. How to be kind
5. How to live non-judgmentally
6. How to give?

Are they truly unbalanced or are they spot on? Or is there more to what Jesus said and did?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

There's verity to both sides of the equation presented.

For example: James teaches and Jesus teaches that the way you judge others is the way you will get judged. Therefore, putting heavy emphasis on mercy is not a bad thing.

On the other side of the equation, when people aren't treated like people, they are treated like objects ... so it is common for people to think that people of this school of thought:

1. Hate people
2. Don't want to help people
3. They are misogynistic
4. They are bigots
5. They are mean
6. They just don't care about people
7. They want to control everyone

 

[rjs330]

There's verity to both sides of the equation presented.

For example: James teaches and Jesus teaches that the way you judge others is the way you will get judged. Therefore, putting heavy emphasis on mercy is not a bad thing.

On the other side of the equation, when people aren't treated like people, they are treated like objects ... so it is common for people to think that people of this school of thought:

1. Hate people
2. Don't want to help people
3. They are misogynistic
4. They are bigots
5. They are mean
6. They just don't care about people
7. They want to control everyone

That's why I believe there needs to be an understanding of the real Jesus and not a one sided Jesus. Judgement is an often misunderstood and/or misused principle. Once again providing an unbalanced approach.

Judgement is NOT and never has been about pointing out wrong doing or wicked behavior. Otherwise Paul, Peter and James and Jesus are guilty of violating that.

Jesus says something quite extraordinary in John.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

People are so wrapped up.in their darkness that any reproval of that darkness is hated. It's important to note that it's their deeds that are evil. And they won't take reproval of those deeds lightly. This is why those that do reprove those deeds are called haters, bigots etc. Because they love their darkness. They love their evil deeds. And anyone that opposes or reproves those deeds is seen as the enemy.

And yet we are called to do just that. Reproval is not judgement. Jesus COMMANDED that we go out and preach repentance. So.reporoving the WORKS of darkness is one of the things we are called to do.

Mercy is something we give to those in place of punishment. They deserve punishment, but we give mercy instead. Mercy is not allowing evil to continue without opposition when it is destroying lives around us. Thats why Christ said go and sin no more.

 

[Aaron112]

These philosophies are driving people on how they vote and what they support in society. It also drives them to consider themselves the "better Christians".

footnote: "philosophies" do not drive born again believers to vote, nor to take part in <worldly> societies. "Philosophies" also do not drive a follow of Jesus, a born again believer, to consider themself a "better Christian".

 

[rjs330]

footnote: "philosophies" do not drive born again believers to vote, nor to take part in <worldly> societies. "Philosophies" also do not drive a follow of Jesus, a born again believer, to consider themself a "better Christian".

I think they do. The philosophies are based upon how they view scripture. What parts they value, and what parts they disregard. Their interpretation of what is written also plays a part.

These philosophies then determine how they behave, think and view rhe world around them. Thats why you can have one believer saying they are a better Christian because Christians shouldn't be voting for a particular candidate. Or Christians shouldn't be speaking out against the LGBT agenda. Or Christians shouldn't go to movie theaters or wear make up. The insinuation is I am a better Christian because I do or don't do certain things.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That's why I believe there needs to be an understanding of the real Jesus and not a one sided Jesus. Judgement is an often misunderstood and/or misused principle. Once again providing an unbalanced approach.

Judgement is NOT and never has been about pointing out wrong doing or wicked behavior. Otherwise Paul, Peter and James and Jesus are guilty of violating that.

Jesus says something quite extraordinary in John.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

People are so wrapped up.in their darkness that any reproval of that darkness is hated. It's important to note that it's their deeds that are evil. And they won't take reproval of those deeds lightly. This is why those that do reprove those deeds are called haters, bigots etc. Because they love their darkness. They love their evil deeds. And anyone that opposes or reproves those deeds is seen as the enemy.

And yet we are called to do just that. Reproval is not judgement. Jesus COMMANDED that we go out and preach repentance. So.reporoving the WORKS of darkness is one of the things we are called to do.

Mercy is something we give to those in place of punishment. They deserve punishment, but we give mercy instead. Mercy is not allowing evil to continue without opposition when it is destroying lives around us. Thats why Christ said go and sin no more.

All judgment is entrusted to the son, whose dying words was "Father forgive them."

In the debate of prodigal versus elder son theologies, it is easy to miss that the goal is to develop the heart of the father.

In terms of balance, that's probably the best route.

 

[rjs330]

All judgment is entrusted to the son, whose dying words was "Father forgive them."

In the debate of prodigal versus elder son theologies, it is easy to miss that the goal is to develop the heart of the father.

In terms of balance, that's probably the best route.

Remember judgement is not about recognizing wrong. It's in punishment of wrong doing. It's interesting that you bring up the prodigal son. The Father waited until the prodigal decided he was done rooting around with the pigs and came home with a humble heart.

The father did not welcome the son until the son came home.

And yes we should have the heart of forgiveness to those who harm us. We should also have the heart to reprove the works of darkness. Thats the balance. The father did not punish the humble son. Judgement is about punishment.

 

[Aaron112]

Alive in Christ
…7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. 8

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and
the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.…
Berean Standard Bible · Download

 

[rjs330]

Alive in Christ
…7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. 8

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and
the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.…
Berean Standard Bible · Download

Amen, that's why I don't put a lot of stock in philosophy. So much of it is empty deception.

When I was talking about philosophy I wasn't talking about Philosophy. I was talking about our particular viewpoint and values. Now we should get our viewpoints and values from scripture.

However you and I both know that is not necessarily true. That's why I started this thread.

Because there are those who.only accept some scriptures while rejecting others. And they base their view on that.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have been learning a lot about our faith through all of these issues we face. Having to consider the Word of God more deeply, I'm understanding things differently now.

I'm enjoying your thread. God bless you.

 

[ozso]

In my opinion what liberalism wants is a Christianity that considers certain types of sin acceptable. It's okay to judge certain sin as sin and as evil, like murder. I don't hear liberalism saying thou shalt not judge when it comes to murder. But when it comes to other sins and crimes they want to support and or celebrate, that's when it's not alright to say those things are bad. Because supposedly Jesus advocates such sin and crime.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am.postimg this here rather than theology, because we are seeing today how an unbalanced view of Christ is affecting Christians philosophy and ethics. Including entire churches. These philosophies are driving people on how they vote and what they support in society. It also drives them to consider themselves the "better Christians".

This unbalanced understanding of Christ is usually presented as things like:
1. Jesus taught us to love our neighbors
2. Jesus taught forgiveness
3. Jesus taught mercy
5. Jesus taught kindness
6. Jesus didn't tell people how they had to live
7. Jesus taught us to give

This unbalanced approach leads people to come to false conclusions about other believers, mainly conservative or more fundamental believers. These falsities lead them to conclude that more conservative believers

1. Hate people
2. Don't want to help people
3. They are misogynistic
4. They are bigots
5. They are mean
6. They just don't care about people
7. They want to.control everyone

How to we know that the unbalanced believers are actually unbalanced and not correct? I mean didn't Christ preach and show us
1. How to live
2. How to forgive
3. How to have mercy
4. How to be kind
5. How to live non-judgmentally
6. How to give?

Are they truly unbalanced or are they spot on? Or is there more to what Jesus said and did?

Maybe when Christians on the whole can show they understand that mental illness is an actual phenomenon and that people really do need care and compassion because life is so stressful and at times debilitating, then we can all get on a similar hermeneutical page when reading and applying the Bible.

 

[rjs330]

Maybe when Christians on the whole can show they understand that mental illness is an actual phenomenon and that people really do need care and compassion because life is so stressful and at times debilitating, then we can all get on a similar hermeneutical page when reading and applying the Bible.

I don't want to turn this thread into a mental illness thread, but I do agree that mental illness is real. I have worked with mentally ill people for many years. The mind is part of the body and the body experiences illness. So does the mind.

But I an curious now this applies to our discussion on the unbalanced view of Christ.

 

[rjs330]

In my opinion what liberalism wants is a Christianity that considers certain types of sin acceptable. It's okay to judge certain sin as sin and as evil, like murder. I don't hear liberalism saying thou shalt not judge when it comes to murder. But when it comes to other sins and crimes they want to support and or celebrate, that's when it's not alright to say those things are bad. Because supposedly Jesus advocates such sin and crime.

What sins and crime do you think they believe Christ advocates for? And why.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't want to turn this thread into a mental illness thread, but I do agree that mental illness is real. I have worked with mentally ill people for many years. The mind is part of the body and the body experiences illness. So does the mind.

But I an curious now this applies to our discussion on the unbalanced view of Christ.

It applies in that it's a fact, and I've seen it already over decades in various evangelical churches I've been in, that Christians there somehow define love, charity, mercy and grace in certain ways that are subsumed and demoted underneath Holiness and Piety. What happens in effect is that Christians then give lip-service to empathy, care, love, charity and deny their God-given responsibility to love even their enemies by holding out hoops for other, even sinful, people to jump through as a pre-condition for receive understanding, care, love and charity.

Christians also seem to have a difficult time incorporating at least minimal lessons from neuro-science and psychology so that those who suffer various cognitive and mental maladies won't find any real help at the local church, but they will readily find verbal beatings about righteousness that virtually no one can fulfill in full.

That's where our "evangelical" culture is at, and I'll easily swat away any denials that "this isn't the case currently." Because it is, and one doesn't have to be a Progressive Christian to say this.

So, where's the imbalanced view of Christ? It's the one that fails to apply both Holiness AND Grace, Mercy and Love all at the same time. One is not a precondition for the other. But somehow, the doctrines of some churches are such that the precondition overrides the church polity.

 

[ozso]

@rjs330 said: What sins and crime do you think they believe Christ advocates for? And why.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Abortion. The whole LGBTQQIP2SAA+ enchilada. Coming into the country illegally. Narcotics use. The people involved in such are to be viewed as victims and or saying anything against such victimizes them. Liberalism is all about fighting for victims, and of course Jesus would also fight the same fight because he's all loving.

 

[com7fy8]

This unbalanced understanding of Christ is usually presented as things like:
1. Jesus taught us to love our neighbors

And they might claim we are therefore to love others by letting them do what they want. And we know how children can scream that you don't love them . . . because you won't let them do what they want that you know is not good for them.

Of course, they do not mention how Jesus says to love our enemies, because this would require them to love people who do not help them to have their own way.

2. Jesus taught forgiveness

Jesus says >

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'' (Mark 11:25)

So, not only are we to forgive, but to forgive while we are forgiving. And I see how being in prayer means to be with God in His all-loving love praying with hope for how God is able to bless someone who has trespassed against us. But all the selfish people want is not really forgiveness, but they want us to accept the wrong they are doing . . . not really to forgive it and not to pray for how God is able to stop their wrong stuff.

You forgive what is condemned by God's word. And in pray we seek how God is able to correct any person of any problem, curing a person's character which makes the person able to give in to wrong emotions and preferences.

But what worldly people can want for forgiveness, really, is tolerance, not real effort of compassion to get a person changed by God out of his or her trouble.

6. Jesus didn't tell people how they had to live

He did tell us how to live our lives. And He did tell us to be kind and generous, but not so people can keep being the wrong way. They claim we can not change out of our personality problems but we have to manage them; however, God is easily able to change us out of wrong emotions and preferences. And every one of us needs how God is able to change our personality to become like Jesus . . . all-loving, generously forgiving, gentle, humble, merciful, kind, and caring about what is wrong so we have compassion in prayer for us all to become corrected by God into how His love is - - - so we are compatible with Jesus so we can spend eternity with Him >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.' (1 John 4:17)

So, real love prepares us to spend eternity with Jesus. This is not the focus of what worldly people consider to be love.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Remember judgement is not about recognizing wrong. It's in punishment of wrong doing. It's interesting that you bring up the prodigal son. The Father waited until the prodigal decided he was done rooting around with the pigs and came home with a humble heart.

The father did not welcome the son until the son came home.

And yes we should have the heart of forgiveness to those who harm us. We should also have the heart to reprove the works of darkness. Thats the balance. The father did not punish the humble son. Judgement is about punishment.

I tend to take James' saying to heart that Judgment should be with mercy. Those who judge without mercy are judged with out mercy.

Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[Aaron112]

I tend to take James' saying to heart that Judgment should be with mercy. Those who judge without mercy are judged with out mercy.

Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Take all Scripture "to heart".
Do not judge, lest ye be judged.
God Judges Rightly and Righteously. His Judgment is True. When He Condemns, it is good and right.
What God Calls Right, do not say is wrong. What God Says is Truth, do not call a lie. What God Says is a lie, do not call Truth.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Take all Scripture "to heart".
Do not judge, lest ye be judged.
God Judges Rightly and Righteously. His Judgment is True. When He Condemns, it is good and right.
What God Calls Right, do not say is wrong. What God Says is Truth, do not call a lie. What God Says is a lie, do not call Truth.

Thanks for that, not sure how it applies to me. However, I am reminded of the following passages.

God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. (John 3:17)

The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son (John 5:22)