Altar Girls? Yea or Nay?

[Michie]

so in your view women should not have jobs traditionally held by men such as doctor, lawyer, police officer, mayor, etc

I’m pretty tired of the thread derail. Career choices has nothing to do with the Church and females at the altar. We are talking about altar girls and how it is seen within the Church. This has nothing to do with how things are seen and operate in the secular world except when the world influences how the Church operates. We are discussing the Church and why Fr. Longenecker holds the opinions he does within the Church.

 

[Lady Bug]

A reader is a good option imo.

I actually hate the laity doing the readings (ducking for cover). They all sound like they're reading it for the first time.

I’m pretty tired of the thread derail. Career choices has nothing to do with the Church and females at the altar. We are talking about altar girls and how it is seen within the Church. This has nothing to do with how things are seen and operate in the secular world except when the world influences how the Church operates. We are discussing the Church and why Fr. Longenecker holds the opinions he does within the Church.

The author explains his opinion as having something to do with gender segregation of boys and girls, but I think he's overstating the segregation a bit. In the West, boys and girls mingle more than the author purports.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

so in your view women should not have jobs traditionally held by men such as doctor, lawyer, police officer, mayor, etc

I did not say that they should not have those jobs. God gives her free will, as does the USA
I say make a choice. Does she want a job, or does she want a family? She cannot have both.
It is a lie of feminism that she can “have it all”.
The more she tries, the more her world leads into chaos with nobody happy.
If a woman wants a higher education, in the 21st century, she can do it at home, while her children are growing. There is no need for her to waste her most fertile years away at college. A professional degree could take her past age thirty, and fertility drops significantly

In order for a woman to maintain sanctifying grace during this time, she would need to be chaste, as she is not married, instead of going the worldly way of bedding many men before she decides to get married

A woman’s career severely limits her ability to raise a family. Of course she can have children, but the cohesiveness of the family structure falls apart with a working mother.

In considering marriage, a man must decide if he marries a Christian woman or an anti-Christian that wants to pretend. A Christian woman denies herself, takes up her cross and follows the commands of God. An anti-Christian one exalts herself, demands service and adoration in exchange for sex. She is capable of using pious words, but it is plain whom she is serving and it’s not Jesus

As a man, I would not marry a career woman, but so what? No woman is commanded to marry me, she can pursue her career if it makes her happy. She would not be the mother of my children that’s all. Bye, Felicia.

If men would just stop playing the game and sacrificing their masculinity on the altar of sex, then women could pursue their careers, find out it is too hard and would seek a man to lead them

For those that don’t, more power to them, but only a fool would have sexual intercourse with them. Christian men are commanded to fly fornication and mortify the deeds of the flesh.
Sex with a self centered woman is a losing soul stealing proposition

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I’m pretty tired of the thread derail. Career choices has nothing to do with the Church and females at the altar. We are talking about altar girls and how it is seen within the Church. This has nothing to do with how things are seen and operate in the secular world except when the world influences how the Church operates. We are discussing the Church and why Fr. Longenecker holds the opinions he does within the Church.

He says altar girls are symptomatic of a much larger social movement, feminism in the secular world and the Church.
That is the basis of his reasoning. It is therefor relevant to this OP and thread.

 

[fide]

Just look at the goals of feminism and one can discern its origins. Feminism is part of left wing politics. Ironic that Satanists call themselves ones who follow the left hand path. What are its goals? To destroy that which makes a woman, motherhood

Feminists love abortion, destroys motherhood. Contraception too, prevents motherhood and makes women the plaything of men. Working outside the home abandons the children and deprives them of a mother. Now transgender tell us those that cannot be mothers are women.
Does this sound Godly to you?

The first feminist was Mary Wollstonecraft. She wrote A Vindication of the Rights of Women, which says that a female is a human creature apart from being a mother. That was first wave feminism. She wanted to be equal to men, and motherhood was believed to hold them back.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were American feminists that wrote the declaration of sentiments which was a women’s version of the Declaration of Independence.

They were spiritists and depended on messages from beyond for some of their beliefs. The “spirit board” they used is still on display in the Smithsonian. Cary Stanton hated Christianity as a man’s religion and wrote a “woman’s Bible” where the serpent is a hero and giver of great wisdom and not the cause of the fall.

Second wave feminism came from the 1960s and free love, but free love was nothing new. It was practiced by first wave feminists Mary Shelley and her husband Percy. The man they most admired was the Marquis de Sade, whom they said was the most free soul that ever lived.

Feminism was built on freedom alright, freedom from men, freedom from children, freedom from government, freedom from the Church, freedom from God. Great plan


Their ideas invaded the Church and still exist today. The Protestants bit first on contraception and Catholics wanted to follow. It took Paul VI to say no, but he suffered great rebellion in the Church

When you look at it, women are to be mothers, and it does not come from God to separate women from motherhood. I do not look down on women that choose to live a consecrated life. They are to be admired as sisters, nor do I disparage infertile women that cannot be mothers. I just point out the deliberate destruction of motherhood by feminism.

Men can never be mothers. Men can try to transition and look like women but they are not real women.
Priests are fathers, and as a man will never be a mother, a woman will never be a father, though some fool themselves into thinking they can be

Girls should not be altar servers as their presence serves no purpose. The altar and the priesthood are for men as they train to be fathers
Even lectors should be limited to men, as the Bible says women should keep silence in the Church

People call me misogynist, but it is feminism that is truly misogynistic as it endeavors to destroy the one thing women can be but men can never, motherhood

If there are no mothers, what is even the difference in men and women? Is it any wonder we have homosexuality and transgenderism in this feminist society?

I would only add this from Scripture:

1Tim 2:15 Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

I believe few, these days, understand or appreciate that truly glorious, literally godly work given to women and to women alone: the conception, nurturing within her God-designed body, and then giving in birth to the created world a new human being capable of eternal beatitude in the Body of Christ. This gift is also a sharing in the Cross and Redemption, and a prophesy entrusted to her:

Jn 16:21 When a woman is in travail she has sorrow, because her hour has come; but when she is delivered of the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a child is born into the world.
Jn 16:22 So you have sorrow now, but I will see you again and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I did not say that they should not have those jobs. God gives her free will, as does the USA
I say make a choice. Does she want a job, or does she want a family? She cannot have both.

Of course she has free will and choice. We all do. But it sounds like you think women should choose to stay at home.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I actually hate the laity doing the readings (ducking for cover). They all sound like they're reading it for the first time.

The author explains his opinion as having something to do with gender segregation of boys and girls, but I think he's overstating the segregation a bit. In the West, boys and girls mingle more than the author purports.

I'm with you Lady:

In the words of the late, great MikeK:

it's all about magnets.

That's what MikeK used to say about when an argument about one subject was based on some weird, obscure or just plain wrong comparison to something unrelated.

(In this case homosexuality being wrong because like polls on a magnet repelled each other - no kidding, someone made that argument once)

In this case we can't have girls mixing with boys in the Mass because it leads to homosexuality, transgenderism, gender role issues and the sexual revolution (which, my dear Father Longnecker occurred 60 years ago, in case you haven't looked lately nobody in Gen Z is having sex - which I'm sure you could also blame on female servers)

He doesn't want girls serving. Fine, just say it, you're in control as the Priest. We don't have to agree with your chauvinistic attitude, we just have to comply.

It's about the magnets.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I'm with you Lady:

In the words of the late, great MikeK:

it's all about magnets.

That's what MikeK used to say about when an argument about one subject was based on some weird, obscure or just plain wrong comparison to something unrelated.

(In this case homosexuality being wrong because like polls on a magnet repelled each other - no kidding, someone made that argument once)

In this case we can't have girls mixing with boys in the Mass because it leads to homosexuality, transgenderism, gender role issues and the sexual revolution (which, my dear Father Longnecker occurred 60 years ago, in case you haven't looked lately nobody in Gen Z is having sex - which I'm sure you could also blame on female servers)

He doesn't want girls serving. Fine, just say it, you're in control as the Priest. We don't have to agree with your chauvinistic attitude, we just have to comply.

It's about the magnets.

Fr Longnecker also has the girls only choir. Some of the best choirs in the world are Boys Choirs. What if a boy wats to sing. Is that then considered too feminine in his parish?

 

[Michie]

Fr Longnecker also has the girls only choir. Some of the best choirs in the world are Boys Choirs. What if a boy wats to sing. Is that then considered too feminine in his parish?

Why don’t you email him and ask?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Why don’t you email him and ask?

I'll wait for the article.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I'll wait for the article.

Aren't I the Devil's Advocate?

Actually this has got me pondering:

"A third and final area of concentration should be the self-invention culture, which is directly repugnant to a Christian view of reality. The existentialism of Jean-Paul Sartre, in its most radical form, is now the default position of practically every young person in the West. I mean, of course, the view that there is no objective truth, goodness, or beauty, and that one, accordingly, has the right and privilege of choosing one’s own values as one sees fit: “Existence precedes essence.” The Cartesian turn toward the subject, expressed in his famous Cogito ergo sum, has been radicalized beyond anything Descartes himself or even his most energetic epigones could have imagined—and it is causing a profound dissolution in the psyches of young people and wreaking real havoc in our society. The Casey decision of the US Supreme Court gives a stunning expression to this perspective—namely, that the range and power of personal liberty are so great that freedom itself determines “one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, of the mystery of human life.” Today, of course, this comes to the fore in regard even to gender. There is an infinite variety of genders precisely because there are unlimited options for the free and self-determining will."

The New Ressourcement

You might want to get some biodegradable pesticides, my brother. Theology is complicated stuff, and is probably the reason why I downloaded some open-access theology books from several denominations onto my computer for artificial intelligence to decipher, cos sometimes it is nice to talk with...

www.christianforums.com

I think I might be becoming a "Nay"

 

[Lady Bug]

In this case we can't have girls mixing with boys in the Mass because it leads to homosexuality

Actually it could be argued that too much gender segregation can lead to more homosexuality, lol.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Why don’t you email him and ask?

Actually, I'm with Mich on this.

One of the ways I'm trying to be a more effective person is by actually contacting people who I read and asking questions. Or just making comments.

It's surprising the high percentage of people who actually answer.

I recommend it.

(And thank you Richard Feynman)

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Aren't I the Devil's Advocate?

Actually this has got me pondering:

"A third and final area of concentration should be the self-invention culture, which is directly repugnant to a Christian view of reality. The existentialism of Jean-Paul Sartre, in its most radical form, is now the default position of practically every young person in the West. I mean, of course, the view that there is no objective truth, goodness, or beauty, and that one, accordingly, has the right and privilege of choosing one’s own values as one sees fit: “Existence precedes essence.” The Cartesian turn toward the subject, expressed in his famous Cogito ergo sum, has been radicalized beyond anything Descartes himself or even his most energetic epigones could have imagined—and it is causing a profound dissolution in the psyches of young people and wreaking real havoc in our society. The Casey decision of the US Supreme Court gives a stunning expression to this perspective—namely, that the range and power of personal liberty are so great that freedom itself determines “one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, of the mystery of human life.” Today, of course, this comes to the fore in regard even to gender. There is an infinite variety of genders precisely because there are unlimited options for the free and self-determining will."

The New Ressourcement

You might want to get some biodegradable pesticides, my brother. Theology is complicated stuff, and is probably the reason why I downloaded some open-access theology books from several denominations onto my computer for artificial intelligence to decipher, cos sometimes it is nice to talk with...

www.christianforums.com

I think I might be becoming a "Nay"

Here I got two problems:

1) The instant you bring up Existentialism, I'm out the door. Existentialism, like it's sexual obsessed little sister Objectivism, is intellectually stunted and likely the outcome of a depressed and confused mind. Neither has anything to offer past masturbation.

2) Why is everyone so fascinatingly fixated on other people's gender all of a sudden? To quote the 45th president during the Insurrection: So What?

Seriously, I'm a kid from a small city in the Midwest and the first time I heard of gender-fluid and transgendered people I was about 15. My city councilman was coming out to his constituency about it.

It was 1975.

This is one of those issues that has NOTHING to do with you. You think there are only two genders? It doesn't affect the price of beer around here, so I don't care.

You think you're some non-binary gender? I still don't care. Except: Until it gets to the point where someone shows up with a gun, then I have to get involved because the person with the gun needs to be dealt with. And then: See the above sentence.

We live in a free and secular society, you do you.

And, if you have trouble with the way I operate as a man and think my gender role is incorrect. Well, so does Anthony Tate.

And he's a pimp and a likely closet case. As well as just a nasty piece of work generally.

So you're in THAT company.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Actually, I'm with Mich on this.

One of the ways I'm trying to be a more effective person is by actually contacting people who I read and asking questions. Or just making comments.

It's surprising the high percentage of people who actually answer.

I recommend it.

(And thank you Richard Feynman)

Hey, I do that also. One author actually zoomed privately with me.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Here I got two problems:

1) The instant you bring up Existentialism, I'm out the door. Existentialism, like it's sexual obsessed little sister Objectivism, is intellectually stunted and likely the outcome of a depressed and confused mind. Neither has anything to offer past masturbation.

2) Why is everyone so fascinatingly fixated on other people's gender all of a sudden? To quote the 45th president during the Insurrection: So What?

Seriously, I'm a kid from a small city in the Midwest and the first time I heard of gender-fluid and transgendered people I was about 15. My city councilman was coming out to his constituency about it.

It was 1975.

This is one of those issues that has NOTHING to do with you. You think there are only two genders? It doesn't affect the price of beer around here, so I don't care.

You think you're some non-binary gender? I still don't care. Except: Until it gets to the point where someone shows up with a gun, then I have to get involved because the person with the gun needs to be dealt with. And then: See the above sentence.

We live in a free and secular society, you do you.

And, if you have trouble with the way I operate as a man and think my gender role is incorrect. Well, so does Anthony Tate.

And he's a pimp and a likely closet case. As well as just a nasty piece of work generally.

So you're in THAT company.

So your Libertarian? That article I posted by Bishop Barron has me rethinking everything. I know somethings are culturally determined. That does not make them wrong. And somethings are objectively wrong and yet still free choice.

These are not new issues. All the way back tp Greek philosophers we have grappled with them.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

So you’re Libertarian?

A Libertarian is a Republican that want to get high and have sex without having to explain it to an Evangelical.

Temperamentally I’m a Social Democrat. As a matter politics I’m DFL

That article I posted by Bishop Barron has me rethinking everything. I know somethings are culturally determined. That does not make them wrong. And somethings are objectively wrong and yet still free choice.

And a lot of it is none of your business in someone else.

These are not new issues. All the way back tp Greek philosophers we have grappled with them.

The Greeks, the Hebrews, the Christians, the Philosophers, the mystics, the Muslims, the reformation, the enlightenment, age of reason and now we’ve gotten to God is dead.

are we ready for the next iteration?

 

[RileyG]

Probably not. Probably most people don't read the articles that they comment on

Guilty

 

[RileyG]

My church was recently remodeled and I was hoping for a Communion rail but nope.

I’m thankful mine does. I live in the most conservative diocese in the nation so it explains why.

 

[FaithT]

I’m thankful mine does. I live in the most conservative diocese in the nation so it explains why.

How does one know how conservative their diocese is?