Do you dare?

[Diamond72]

What's your point?

The point is we need to stick to our Bible and not add to it.

 

[Diamond72]

The amount of time something has been in existence.

Everything has been in existence from the beginning. Nothing has been added. God declares the end from the beginning. He does not make things up as He goes along. He does not change the rules and move the goal posts in the middle of the game.

 

[AV1611VET]

The point is we need to stick to our Bible and not add to it.

If you have a better term for "embedded age," I'll be glad to listen.

And as far as adding to the Bible, science adds 13.7 billion years to it.

I'll show you the words "embedded age" in the Bible, if you show me "primeval atom" in It.

 

[AV1611VET]

Everything has been in existence from the beginning.

It took six days and a series of one miracle after another to raise the amount of mass/energy in the universe from zero to what it is now.

Nothing has been added.

Not since Day Six, no.

That would be a violation of the first law of thermodynamics.

God declares the end from the beginning.

Yes, indeed, He does.

He does not make things up as He goes along.

Nope.

He does not change the rules and move the goal posts in the middle of the game.

But He does make exceptions -- called "miracles" -- from time to time.

As when He made entropy stand down here:

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

 

[Diamond72]

If you have a better term for "embedded age," I'll be glad to listen.

I have tried to explain this to you before. Science talks about rapid or even instant expansion. This event is known as cosmic inflation. It occurred just a tiny fraction of a second after the Big Bang, around (10^{-34}) seconds1. During this period, the universe expanded exponentially, growing from a subatomic size to a macroscopic scale almost instantaneously.

Perhaps by "embedded age" you mean a day looks like 8 billion years because if it were not for cosmic inflation the universe would have taken that long to expand.

And as far as adding to the Bible, science adds 13.7 billion years to it.

We can go over this again too. But you appear to be the only person in the world that does not accept Einstein and his belief that time is relative. I know you are smart enough to understand this, so that can not be the issue.

Albert Einstein did believe that time is relative. This concept is a cornerstone of his Special Theory of Relativity, which he published in 1905. According to this theory, the rate at which time passes depends on your frame of reference. For example, time can appear to move slower for someone traveling at high speeds compared to someone who is stationary. Einstein’s realization that time is not absolute but relative to the observer’s state of motion was revolutionary and has profound implications for our understanding of the universe

Special Relativity (1905): This theory deals with the physics of objects moving at constant speeds, particularly those moving close to the speed of light. It introduced the famous equation (E=mc^2), which shows the relationship between energy (E), mass (m), and the speed of light.

If you want to believe in the theory of "imbedded age" compared to "relativity" then I suppose you are entitled to do that. I just think that rapid expansion created the appearance of embedded age.

 

[Diamond72]

But He does make exceptions -- called "miracles" -- from time to time.

That is another discussion (thread). I go by Jeremiah 1:2 "“for I am watching over My word to accomplish it.” We know God declares the end from the beginning. He then watches over His word to perform or accomplish the results that He declared from the beginning. When God restores us, when He rescues, saves and heals us. That looks like a miracle to us because of the divine intervention. God does not violate His word, He performs what HE said He was going to do.

Of course that is from OUR perspective. Time is different for God. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So for example, if an adult suffered trauma as a child. God does not heal the memory. He goes back in time to deal with the cause itself to bring about healing and restoration.

Everything in the universe, past and present is connected in real time. They call this entanglement.

In quantum physics, entanglement refers to a phenomenon where particles become interconnected in such a way that the state of one particle instantly influences the state of another, no matter how far apart they are. This connection happens faster than the speed of light, which is why it’s often described as “spooky action at a distance.”

However, it’s important to note that while entanglement connects particles in a unique way, it doesn’t mean everything in the universe is connected in real time. The concept is specific to quantum particles and their states.

 

[AV1611VET]

I just think that rapid expansion created the appearance of embedded age.

I'm going to conclude that you don't understand Embedded Age Creation and let it go at that.

 

[AV1611VET]

However, it’s important to note that while entanglement connects particles in a unique way, it doesn’t mean everything in the universe is connected in real time. The concept is specific to quantum particles and their states.

Now do me a favor, please.

Take all that fancy science talk and apply it to the verse I quoted and explain to me how it went down.

Here's the verse again:

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

 

[Diamond72]

I'm going to conclude that you don't understand Embedded Age Creation and let it go at that.

Where do you get this theory from? Who discoverered it? Did they give him a prize?

If you are in Guam than sunset for you is sunrise for me. Day is night and night is day. At the north and south pole a day is 6 months and night is 6 months. My wife went home to visit her family so when I am waking up she is going to sleep. A day is still a day but everyone has their own perspective. In Alaska a day for my son can be 6 hours and night can be 18 hours. Then another time of year there is 18 hours of day and 6 hours of night. Depending on the distance people live from the north pole.

The term “embedded age” doesn’t have a widely recognized definition in general contexts, but it appears in specific technical fields. For example, in computer vision and machine learning, “embedded age” can refer to the age estimation of individuals in images or videos using embedded systems. These systems are designed to perform age and gender classification in real-time, often under unconstrained conditions.

In another context, “embedded age” might be used in face aging technologies, where an age estimator is embedded within a model to predict and simulate the aging process of a face image.

Is "embeded age" in the dictionary you like to use? Maybe you can give me the definition from your dictionary.

 

[AV1611VET]

Where do you get this theory from? Who discoverered it? Did they give him a prize?

Have a good day.

I stopped reading right here.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

What is it that our Christian beliefs about God are supposed to be either based upon or emergent from?

I love that question.

Based on authority? Scripture? Which scripture? Why the Bible?
Based on rationality? Then why so little agreement?
Based on science? Too close to rationality and still too little agreement.

I think the fundamental basis is personal revelation through grace, a personal encounter with God.

But then we must interpret and contextualize that experience. And this is where our many faith traditions and beliefs come into play.
So the historicity, for some people more than others, becomes important in supporting their interpretation and working context.

.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The amount of time something has been in existence.

How does that differ from physical age?

 

[AV1611VET]

How does that differ from physical age?

Have you seen my canoe challenge thread?

Here's a link to it:

I cut down a 1000-year-old tree, hollow it out and make a canoe out of it; all in a day's time.

How old is the canoe when I'm finished?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Have you seen my canoe challenge thread?

Here's a link to it:

It doesn't help.

 

[Derf]

Have you seen my canoe challenge thread?

Here's a link to it:

The canoe is a day old. the materials are older. So Adam was less than a day old at the beginning of day 7. But he was made out of dirt that was 5 days old, which was made of water 6 days old. (Depending on how you understand the 6 days).

All of that timing is based on an earth day and earth location. Any appearance of age built in would be from misunderstanding how those things came to be, therefore they would be false ages. That's not necessarily the case for far-distant objects, as they might have an appearance of age that accurately reflects the passage of time at the object, or light in transit, that still all happened in 6 earth days. But, those objects have an adjustable exchange rate between their time and earth days, such that they are still less than 7 days old. I think that's what you are getting at, but it doesn't apply to the objects on earth.

 

[AV1611VET]

The canoe is a day old.

Correct.

the materials are older.

Correct.

Thus the canoe has a physical age of 1000 years, and an existential age of 1 day.

So Adam was less than a day old at the beginning of day 7.

Correct.

But it's plausible that he was 20 or 30 years old physically.

After all, he was given a job, a wife, and told to have children.

In that order, I might add.

 

[Diamond72]

Now do me a favor, please.

Take all that fancy science talk and apply it to the verse I quoted and explain to me how it went down.

Here's the verse again:

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

That is something I think about quite a bit. I have been in 50 year old houses that look brand new like the day they built them. Then I see houses like the houses in Detroit that are abandon and a mess. It would take a lot of work and effort to get them up and running again.

You are talking to the right person because that is exactly what I did for a living. Remodeling, renovation and repair. After WW2 we took the homes and business building that they built after WW1 and we restored them so they could continue to be used. Now they tear down the old and put up something new that only has a life of about 25 years. Not 100 years the way they use to build them. With all the fancy trim and molding in them.

Notice science says that entropy will increase or remain the same. I could explain that to you but you do not seem much interested in my explanation for anything. As my wife says: cook yourself and eat yourself. Everyone has to be happy and content with their own understanding. Paul said "fully convinced".

The law of entropy is closely related to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It states that the entropy of an isolated system will either increase or remain constant over time; it never decreases. Entropy is a measure of disorder or randomness in a system, and this law implies that natural processes tend to move towards a state of maximum disorder or equilibrium

Romans 14:5
One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Some people are fully convinced a day is 24 hours, others say a day is billions of years.

 

[Diamond72]

I stopped reading right here.

I do not blame you for not wanting to have your beliefs challenged.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are talking to the right person because that is exactly what I did for a living. Remodeling, renovation and repair.

Not in the Wilderness, you wouldn't.

You'd be out of a job.

(And I salute you for the work that you did.)

 

[Derf]

Correct.



Correct.

Thus the canoe has a physical age of 1000 years, and an existential age of 1 day.



Correct.

But it's plausible that he was 20 or 30 years old physically.

After all, he was given a job, a wife, and told to have children.

In that order, I might add.

He wasn't that old physically, according to your example, since the materials weren't that old. And the way we are put together requires new cells making up new organs that weren't in the clay. So your canoe analogy falls apart too quickly for such extrapolation. The best you might say is that he had the maturity of a 20 year old, but not the age.