Luke 13:3 being ripped out of context to teach Repent Of Your Sins

[tdidymas]

Oh? So Satan stands in front of us, floats at our shoulder, whispering audibly?

We're tempted internally, in mind and heart.

Jesus defined evil as coming from within via evil thoughts. Mark 7:21-23

Paul said the same, that in his mind he had evil thoughts, and defined it as the sin that dwelt in his flesh, the evil present with him. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-21

And we know defiling is sin. We know sin is of the devil, Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8

We know that God Himself bound us to the spirit of disobedience. Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

We didn't know this condition prior to salvation. The only thing that changes after the fact is that we are aware that it is alien to ourselves, and we fight and resist it, in dominion. Not denial

You may finish your end by stating you are never tempted internally by the tempter and we can just leave it at that

I just don't know where you are coming from, but your last statement is contrary to what I previously posted. Not sure why you are misreading me. But you seem to think that Satan lives in your heart. Well, if you want to believe that, it's up to you. But I'm saying it's unbiblical. It reeks of "the devil made me do it" as an excuse for sin, rather than taking responsibility for choices.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

But you seem to think that Satan lives in your heart

I am tempted, internally, by the tempter. Yes. No different than any person

Call it what you will. I don't buy the Hollywood versions of what this means

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Of course God included everyone in his plan because he loves the entire world and wants everyone to come to repentance. We know that's why he's so long suffering. Will they? Sadly no.

I've cited Romans 11:26-30 as a direct refutation of your view, showing that enemies of the Gospel as it pertains to Israel shall ALL in fact be saved for no reasons of their own performances

Who is it that doesn't believe?

And, fwiw, being mature means to me, that we speak honestly about being sinners. Not that we sin less or are sinless. We just get attacked by our adversary in different ways, moreso when we're believers

There is a real battle

I see the enemy and don't try to hide the fact or insulate from the fact. I drag that enemy into my picture, in dominion

 

[JulieB67]

I've cited Romans 11:26-30 as a direct refutation of your view, showing that enemies of the Gospel as it pertains to Israel shall ALL in fact be saved for no reasons of their own performances

Of course completely omitting this verse-

Romans 11:22 "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

And Christ is still the key in this

Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

Romans 11:26 "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

Romans 11:27 "For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

And, fwiw, being mature means to me, that we speak honestly about being sinners

Who has not been honest about that? No one. All of us have admitted to being sinners. But there is a difference between falling short, missing the mark vs and living in sin with no repentance. If one does so, the truth is not in them.

Not that we sin less

Then obviously you have no plans to put on the "new man" and will continue to walk in darkness while blaming Satan?



Acts 26:18 "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me.'

John as we know also makes it so simple regarding that we all have sin but we must walk in that light to have those sins cleansed.

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

I John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin."

I John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

I John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

The list goes on

Colossians 3:5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"


Colossians 3:6 "For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience;"

Colossians 3:7 "In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.


I John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Again, we can discern this is the habitual sinner but for the most part, one naturally sins less because we do have that unction of the Holy Spirit residing in us upon repentance.

I Thessalonians 4:4 "That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;"

Here's a huge one about sinning and not repenting-

II Corinthians 12:21 "And lest, when I come again, my god will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed."
A
Proving without a doubt repentance must follow sin.


Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?"

Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:


Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

So you're "sinning less" is not biblical at all. Quite the opposite. We don't have to serve Satan or sin.

We will still sin? Yes, but repent, turn back, with that continuing renewing of the mind and get back on path.



Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

There is a real battle

The real battle hasn't even started yet but that's another topic altogether....

 

[tdidymas]

I am tempted, internally, by the tempter. Yes. No different than any person

Call it what you will. I don't buy the Hollywood versions of what this means

"I don't buy the Hollywood versions of what this means" - well, I don't either, but that's beside the point. I have sometimes called my brain "the grey satan" because of my forgetfulness about Who I belong to, and because of mistakes and false beliefs (ref to "grey matter"). Nevertheless, I do not believe that Satan lives in my mind, nor do I believe the Bible teaches that. "Resist the devil and he will flee from you" is the apostolic order (after submission to God). The point is that bad decisions are our responsibility. In the day of judgment we will be judged for what we have done. The devil will be judged for what he did, not what we did. We won't be able to blame shift at that time.

I think you are taking what you judge in your own mind based on how you are interpreting your experience, and then imposing your judgment onto the scripture you are reading. That's not a good way to read scripture. And why aren't you responding to the rest of my post? Is it because you can't get past this premise? Show me a verse of scripture you are basing this idea on, and I think I can show you how you are misinterpreting it, and how it is properly interpreted. But only if you're open to it.

 

[Jan001]

Explain how you will understand the sequence of events in rev 20.

The Thousand Years​

1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.​

At the death of Jesus, Satan's power was restricted, and it will be restricted until shortly before Jesus returns at his second coming. The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between the first coming of Jesus 2000 years ago and his second coming at the end of time.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.​

The righteous, who entered into heaven after Jesus redeemed the world by his sacrificial death on the cross, are the people who are reigning with Jesus right now in heaven. They will reign there with him until his second coming. They will then accompany him to earth at his second coming.

The Judgment of Satan​

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

​

Satan will be re-given his full power to deceive people shortly before Jesus returns at his second coming. I think we are in this time period now.

​

The Judgment of the Dead​

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.​

​

After Jesus' second coming, he will judge all people, both good and evil, at the same judgment. Thus final judgment is called the white throne judgment/sheep and goats judgment.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I do not believe that Satan lives in my mind, nor do I believe the Bible teaches that.

I'd suggest the tempter tempts internally.

If you don't think that's the case just say so. It has nothing to do with "Satan living in you" and everything to do with an evil conscience that Satan has access to.

Romans 11:32

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Eph. 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The difference after salvation is we [supposedly] see our prior state, and resist, knowing the impetus is alien to ourselves.

 

[Guojing]

The Thousand Years​

1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.​

At the death of Jesus, Satan's power was restricted, and it will be restricted until shortly before Jesus returns at his second coming. The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between the first coming of Jesus 2000 years ago and his second coming at the end of time.

​

Satan will be re-given his full power to deceive people shortly before Jesus returns at his second coming. I think we are in this time period now.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

If you believe that "The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between the first coming of Jesus 2000 years ago and his second coming at the end of time"

you cannot at the same time believe that "Satan will be re-given his full power to deceive people shortly before Jesus returns at his second coming. I think we are in this time period now."

Either we are in the 1000 years now, where Satan is bound, or we are not, where Satan is "re-given his full power"

Which is it?

 

[Jan001]

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

If you believe that "The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between the first coming of Jesus 2000 years ago and his second coming at the end of time"

you cannot at the same time believe that "Satan will be re-given his full power to deceive people shortly before Jesus returns at his second coming. I think we are in this time period now."

Either we are in the 1000 years now, where Satan is bound, or we are not, where Satan is "re-given his full power"

Which is it?

I think the symbolic "a thousand years" time period is ending. I think Satan has been re-given his full power and that it is near to Jesus' second coming. I think these two events overlap. No one knows the day or the hour of Jesus' second coming. Matthew 25:13

All the saints in heaven are reigning with Jesus right now 2 Timothy 2:12, and they will reign with Jesus until the time of his second coming. The saints will then accompany Jesus to earth to meet in the air the faithful people who were still on earth. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 All the saints will then immediately accompany Jesus to the final judgment of all people, both the good and the evil. John 5:28-30

After Jesus' second coming and the final judgment, he will turn his kingdom over to his Father and then God will reign forever and ever.

1 Corinthians 15:24-26 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.​

 

[Guojing]

I think the symbolic "a thousand years" time period is ending. I think Satan has been re-given his full power and that it is near to Jesus' second coming. I think these two events overlap. No one knows the day or the hour of Jesus' second coming. Matthew 25:13

You said "Satan has been re-given his full power", which is the present tense.

So is your point saying that the 1000 year period described in Rev has ended, because now Satan is having full power?

 

[Jan001]

You said "Satan has been re-given his full power", which is the present tense.

So is your point saying that the 1000 year period described in Rev has ended, because now Satan is having full power?

No. The thousand years is nearing its end. Satan has received his full power because the thousand years is nearing its end. They coincide for a while. We do know that Satan will be defeated for all time when Jesus returns for his second coming.

Revelation 20:4-5 And I saw thrones, and seated on them were those who had been given the authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God. These had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished). This is the first resurrection.

​

The saints from the first resurrection (and all the good people who have died since then), will accompany Jesus to earth. The rest of the dead will not come to life until Jesus' second coming.

Matthew 27:51-53 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.​

​

No one knows for sure what the authors of these Scriptures meant by these words. We can only speculate and give our opinions.

 

[Guojing]

No. The thousand years is nearing its end. Satan has received his full power because the thousand years is nearing its end. They coincide for a while. We do know that Satan will be defeated for all time when Jesus returns for his second coming.

But Rev 20:7 said literally

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.

There is no overlap stated in that verse.

Again you are trying to have your cake and eat it.

Either the 1000 years have ended and Satan is now released with full power

or it has not, and Satan is still bounded.

Which is which?

 

[tdidymas]

I'd suggest the tempter tempts internally.

If you don't think that's the case just say so. It has nothing to do with "Satan living in you" and everything to do with an evil conscience that Satan has access to.

Romans 11:32

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Eph. 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The difference after salvation is we [supposedly] see our prior state, and resist, knowing the impetus is alien to ourselves.

It appears to me that your conversation is vague, and I just don't know where you stand, or where you're coming from. I need you to explain what exactly you mean by "tempter tempts internally."

As for temptation, it comes from the human flesh, as James 1:14 says, "But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust."

 

[Jan001]

But Rev 20:7 said literally

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.

There is no overlap stated in that verse.

Again you are trying to have your cake and eat it.

Either the 1000 years have ended and Satan is now released with full power

or it has not, and Satan is still bounded.

Which is which?

I already explained. They co-exist near the end of the thousand years and they will co-exist until Jesus returns at his second coming.

When the thousand years are completely over, Jesus will return. As Jesus is returning, he defeats both Satan and death for all time. Satan does not get to be on earth after Jesus' second coming. Satan will be in hell for eternity after Jesus' second coming.

The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between the first coming of Jesus and his second coming. This is apocalyptic language. It is not meant to be understood in a strictly literal sense. If I say, "It is raining cats and dogs outside," I do not mean that actual flesh and blood cats and dogs are falling from the sky. I mean that it is raining heavily. Apocalyptic prophecies are also not literal (verbatim).

This is my opinion. You may certainly have a different opinion of the thousand years.

 

[Guojing]

I already explained. They co-exist near the end of the thousand years and they will co-exist until Jesus returns at his second coming.

When the thousand years are completely over, Jesus will return. As Jesus is returning, he defeats both Satan and death for all time. Satan does not get to be on earth after Jesus' second coming. Satan will be in hell for eternity after Jesus' second coming.

The thousand years is symbolic for the time period between the first coming of Jesus and his second coming. This is apocalyptic language. It is not meant to be understood in a strictly literal sense. If I say, "It is raining cats and dogs outside," I do not mean that actual flesh and blood cats and dogs are falling from the sky. I mean that it is raining heavily. Apocalyptic prophecies are also not literal (verbatim).

This is my opinion. You may certainly have a different opinion of the thousand years.

Whether the thousand years are symbolic or literal 1000 years, does not matter.

All that verse says is when it is over, then Satan will be released.

It does not allow one to conclude that they overlap.

That is not an opinion. That is what that verse states.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

As for temptation, it comes from the human flesh, as James 1:14 says, "But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust."

Well, let's clarify your positions. I've made the scriptural claims about Satan, the devil, the tempter abundantly clear at this point. Jesus showed us this bad actor and his own operate within mankind. They enter mankind and are cast out of mankind.

Jesus told us that these spirits consider "man" their "house"

Does our "flesh" do any of that? No. It happens to be where "they" operate.

I always get a kick out of people who will blame anyone and anything but the devil and his own, which speaks volumes about the abilities of devils to mask and hide their presence in people.

But if you listen closely, you can definitely hear them talking

 

[tdidymas]

Well, let's clarify your positions. I've made the scriptural claims about Satan, the devil, the tempter abundantly clear at this point. Jesus showed us this bad actor and his own operate within mankind. They enter mankind and are cast out of mankind.

Jesus told us that these spirits consider "man" their "house"

Does our "flesh" do any of that? No. It happens to be where "they" operate.

I always get a kick out of people who will blame anyone and anything but the devil and his own, which speaks volumes about the abilities of devils to mask and hide their presence in people.

But if you listen closely, you can definitely hear them talking

You can hear them talking? Perhaps you're schizophrenic?

Your response reeks of "the devil made me do it." It appears that you disagree with James, so I'm done with this debate.

 

[Jan001]

Whether the thousand years are symbolic or literal 1000 years, does not matter.

All that verse says is when it is over, then Satan will be released.

It does not allow one to conclude that they overlap.

That is not an opinion. That is what that verse states.

How about the following verse:

Revelation 12:14 But the woman was given the two wings of a great eagle so she could fly away into the wilderness to the place where she would be taken care of for a time, and times, and half a time, safe from the presence of the serpent.​

Do you believe that this woman literally was given two eagle's wings?
I don't.



When the thousand years is over, Jesus will return for his second coming. All the dead bodies of the people in their graves will rise at this time and this is shortly before Jesus and his righteous saints in heaven return to earth.

John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in their graves will hear · his voice​

and will come out—those who have done good, to a resurrection unto life, and those who have practiced evil, to a resurrection unto condemnation.​

​

Revelation 20:4-5 And I saw thrones, and seated on them were those who had been given the authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God. These had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished). This is the first resurrection.


The rest of the dead do not rise until Jesus' second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.


We disagree. That is fine with me. ​

 

[Jan001]

Whether the thousand years are symbolic or literal 1000 years, does not matter.

All that verse says is when it is over, then Satan will be released.

It does not allow one to conclude that they overlap.

That is not an opinion. That is what that verse states.

This is apocalyptic language. It is not literal.
I have nothing more to add to this conversation.
Adieu to you.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

You can hear them talking? Perhaps you're schizophrenic?

Your response reeks of "the devil made me do it." It appears that you disagree with James, so I'm done with this debate.

I've never claimed the devil made anyone do anything

The devil sins. Does that mean the devil made someone sin? No. The devils sins in people

That's why we don't count sins against people, 2 Cor. 5:19 but we do count sins against the devil and his messengers "in" people.

When anyone resists the disclosures of the Word, it's the DEVIL in them, deceiving, blinding and stealing from them, the people