What is the greatest threat to the church in our generation?

[ViaCrucis]

Applied Modalism doing spiritual warfare.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this? I'm familiar with the heresy of Modalism, but am uncertain of its relationship with "spiritual warfare" as you are using it here.

I'm not arguing or disputing anything--I'm genuinely seeking elaboration.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I've been to churches for over 10 years and know the scriptures better than most that attend.

And do you currently attend a church? Do you have a pastor? Do you submit, at all, to the governing authority of Christ's Holy Church in any capacity?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Darktriad]

And do you currently attend a church? Do you have a pastor? Do you submit, at all, to the governing authority of Christ's Holy Church in any capacity?

-CryptoLutheran

I attend with a friend that is in agreement with me on this and he's married.

 

[timothyu]

Putting the will of God ahead of the will of man and their institutions, be they secular or religious, is kind of a threat isn't it.

 

[Hoping2]

Putting the will of God ahead of the will of man and their institutions, be they secular or religious, is kind of a threat isn't it.

Not if your God is one of holiness and love.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I attend with a friend that is in agreement with me on this and he's married.

Is agreement with you the litmus test of what a good church ought to be? Are you teachable and correctable by being humble and submitting yourself to those whom God has placed over you for your own spiritual care (see Hebrews 13:17 and 1 Peter 5:5)? For it is, as instituted by Jesus Christ, the pastoral duty to wield the Office of the Keys (Matthew 16:19, Matthew 18:18, John 20:21-23), and as St. Paul instructed St. Timothy, to preach the word and rebuke false teaching (2 Timothy 4:1-4), which was Timothy's sacred office and vocation as one called and ordained to this holy calling (1 Timothy 4:14-16).

Of course we ought not be abused by false teachers, nor are pastors permitted to act like autocratic tyrants (1 Peter 5:1-3, Matthew 20:25-26), but the faithful exercising of the pastoral gifts is essential for the spiritual health of Christ's Body, and is why we are called to hear and listen and obey. To not do away with the practice of coming together (Hebrews 10:25), but to come together where the Word of Christ is proclaimed in faithful diligence, and where the Sacraments are administered (Acts 2:42, 1 Corinthians 11:17-34).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[timothyu]

Not if your God is one of holiness and love.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.​

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 

[Hoping2]

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.​

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.​

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.​

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.​

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Amen.
That is the sort of King I would gladly follow !

 

[ViaCrucis]

Agreement with the word in heaven John 1:1 is my litmus test. Ecclesiastes 7:28 and 1 Timothy 2:14 is simply the truth on men and women.

The strongest man of the bible in strength was also the one who simped the hardest. Judges 16:4-18

Just picture having a woman you pay for try killing you three times and then telling her against God's direct orders how to do it.

And this spirit of simphood is very much alive in the churches rotting them from the inside out. Almost literally every position the modern church has bent the knee on can be traced back to this spirit of simphood that has overtaken the men leading.

It's really hard to take you seriously when you are expressing such juvenile language like this. It might be slightly excusable if you are very young and lacking in basic life experience. At the very least wisdom can grow with time.

But that's doubly why you should be living in faithful obedience to Christ as a member of His Church, and putting yourself at the receiving end of grace where Word and Sacrament are found.

The Divine Word (John 1:1), Jesus Christ Himself, commands that those who are His put themselves under His authority as Lord, by abiding to the faith and teaching of His Apostles, whom He appointed as His witnesses. And thus we are to subject to the faithful teaching of His Church, living as disciples.

The alternative is living in sin and unrepentance, thus subjecting oneself to the evil lies and schemes of the devil without the protection of God's instituted order and means. It is open rebellion against God. If you resist the Holy Spirit then you will end up quenching Him, and in quenching Him you will extinguish the fire of faith which God keeps burning in you by His grace.

As far as significant threats to the Church in our current generation, I would argue that you are an example of such danger. For the Apostle warned that there are those who will not listen to sound teaching, but follow after every wind of doctrine that tickles their ears.

Careful, and have holy fear, for it is written,

"For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things." - Philippians 3:18-19

-CryptoLutheran

 

[stevevw]

767K views · 37K reactions | What is the greatest threat to the church in our generation? “Pastors. Honestly, pastors.” – Paul Washer #paulwasher #gospel #scripture #reformed #creedsconfessions #christ #salvation #christian #theologian #preacher #

What is the greatest threat to the church in our generation? “Pastors. Honestly, pastors.” – Paul Washer #paulwasher #gospel #scripture #reformed #creedsconfessions #christ #salvation #christian...

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The greatest threat to the church is the church. Or rather the church becoming conformed to this world rather than God. I think the longer time has gone by, the more technology and better standard of life, the more comfortable and pleasurable it has become the harder it is for the church to stay true to Gods Kingdom.

I think back in early times there were not as many distractions that lured people away from God. Christ was still in the memories and stories and faith was stronger. People were dying for Christ. Gradually the public square welcomed God. So following God was the norm.

But as time has gone by and we have moved further away from this point and away from Christ people forget, get comfortable and modern life is all consuming taking over our senses. Constant narratives about God is dead, we don't need God along with the almost miraculous power of technology that promises people a better life and possibilities beyond their wildest dreams.

Its easy to be consumed by this and its pretty convincing in how modern tech is almost mimicking God. Flying, exploring outter space, cracking the genetic code, curing cancers, rebuilding human parts, extending life and all the creature comforts we could want.

I can understand how this can be attractive especially for young people. The glitter and appeal is right before their eyes, There are voices and images coming at you all the time pushing the the idea that we humans are the gods who can create whatever. That true happiness is in the pleasures of the world, money, material things and feeling good.

In that context its easy to see that even the church will be sucked in to a watered down worldly version of God..

In reality the church should be like in the early days, standing apart from the world, even conflicting with it. The world has become so secular and departed from God that a true church would actually be hated by the world and not loved.

We are entering a time where the true church will rise up and be persecuted. As Christ said that we will be persecuted in His name for standing on Gods truth.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Who is the greatest threat to Christianity? The answer is Christians, according to theologian Brennan Manning. I first heard this quote from the DC Talk song "What If I Stumble" today when watching DC Talk's "Free At Last" movie.

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

— Brennan Manning

 

[Hoping2]

Who is the greatest threat to Christianity? The answer is Christians, according to theologian Brennan Manning. I first heard this quote from the DC Talk song "What If I Stumble" today when watching DC Talk's "Free At Last" movie.

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

— Brennan Manning

Do you feel one can live a lifestyle that does not deny Him ?
(I do.)

 

[Offline4Better.]

Do you feel one can live a lifestyle that does not deny Him ?
(I do.)

Well, we all live in a fallen world, so all of our lifestyles need working on. For instance, I struggle with lust and am quick to judge. This is nearly a daily struggle for me. So, that is one reason why I try to worship God more, by singing Christian songs more often since August 2024 and praying even more than just before meals. Now, I pray for my enemies, but even fail at that sometimes. In other words, our lives are a work in progress.

 

[Hoping2]

Well, we all live in a fallen world, so all of our lifestyles need working on.

Just because we live here doesn't mean we have to act like the natives.

For instance, I struggle with lust and am quick to judge. This is nearly a daily struggle for me. So, that is one reason why I try to worship God more, by singing Christian songs more often since August 2024 and praying even more than just before meals. Now, I pray for my enemies, but even fail at that sometimes. In other words, our lives are a work in progress.

Prayer is a good way to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus.
Just remember, Christ is in you and ready to do the "works" !

 

[Offline4Better.]

Just because we live here doesn't mean we have to act like the natives.

Prayer is a good way to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus.
Just remember, Christ is in you and ready to do the "works" !

Correct. However, Jesus is forgiving if we stumble. Legalism is a slippery slope, my brother.

 

[tdidymas]

Who is the greatest threat to Christianity? The answer is Christians, according to theologian Brennan Manning. I first heard this quote from the DC Talk song "What If I Stumble" today when watching DC Talk's "Free At Last" movie.

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

— Brennan Manning

I agree with Manning to some extent, however, it's just an excuse, really. Every unbeliever by nature of his unbelief is looking for a justification to not repent. When a Christian stumbles in some way, they say "Aha! They're no better than me, so why should I become a Christian, or repent from my sins?" The nature of unbelief is that they are blind to their true spiritual condition, and blind to the hope that Jesus provides. So when an atheist blames his unbelief on "Christian" hypocrites, he is merely doing himself harm by strengthening his unbelieving attitude. It's called "hardening their hearts." Nevertheless, it puts the onus on true Christians to be a blameless witness for Christ, in actions more than words.

 

[Offline4Better.]

I agree with Manning to some extent, however, it's just an excuse, really. Every unbeliever by nature of his unbelief is looking for a justification to not repent. When a Christian stumbles in some way, they say "Aha! They're no better than me, so why should I become a Christian, or repent from my sins?" The nature of unbelief is that they are blind to their true spiritual condition, and blind to the hope that Jesus provides. So when an atheist blames his unbelief on "Christian" hypocrites, he is merely doing himself harm by strengthening his unbelieving attitude. It's called "hardening their hearts." Nevertheless, it puts the onus on true Christians to be a blameless witness for Christ, in actions more than words.

We must be open to admitting our mistakes. That is how we get more people into our Christian faith.

 

[tdidymas]

We must be open to admitting our mistakes. That is how we get more people into our Christian faith.

That's a part of being a blameless witness, to admit errors and show by actions that we have repented. It's called testimony. This is how we avoid hypocrisy which offers the excuse to the unbelieving.

 

[Offline4Better.]

That's a part of being a blameless witness, to admit errors and show by actions that we have repented. It's called testimony. This is how we avoid hypocrisy which offers the excuse to the unbelieving.

Yep. That is why my devotionals contain testimony as well. Some of my sins are hard for me to get rid of, but the more I pray, the better these things get.

Every atheist here can read my devotionals, and my life anecdotes/testimonies are at the bottom of most of them, in the societal relevance (as sometimes I use that section to reflect world events as well).

Praying for Enemies - My Life Anecdote

 

[Hans Blaster]

I agree with Manning to some extent, however, it's just an excuse, really. Every unbeliever by nature of his unbelief is looking for a justification to not repent.

It is not. I'm not interested in "repentence" or "justification". I literally don't care what some church thinks of my moral state.

When a Christian stumbles in some way, they say "Aha! They're no better than me, so why should I become a Christian, or repent from my sins?"

Nope. Not in the slightest. The church is selling a bill of unbelievable goods. Why should I want any of it?

The nature of unbelief is that they are blind to their true spiritual condition, and blind to the hope that Jesus provides.

Manning was specifically talking about people who left the church. We are very aware of what "Jesus provides". We just don't buy it.

So when an atheist blames his unbelief on "Christian" hypocrites, he is merely doing himself harm by strengthening his unbelieving attitude.

That completely misreads the quote. It is *Manning* that claims that "Christian hypocrites" are what drive away members and make us into atheists. It is not atheists claiming that. (And as an atheist I would never "blame" my non-belief on anyone. If anything I'd be grateful for the trigger.)

It's called "hardening their hearts." Nevertheless, it puts the onus on true Christians to be a blameless witness for Christ, in actions more than words.

I don't care if the salesman is perfectly honest. I care if the product is defective.