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U.S. accuses Russia of sophisticated influence campaigns against U.S. voters

wing2000

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"The U.S. Department of Justice on Wednesday said it disrupted Russian-directed foreign malign influence campaigns it referred to as “Doppelganger,” that sought to spread Russian government propaganda.

The effort was meant to reduce international support for Ukraine, bolster pro-Russian policies, and influence voters in the U.S. and elsewhere, the Justice Department said."

 

Gene2memE

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From the details of the indictment, it looks like a handful of US right wing/conservative/alt-right 'content' producers got scooped up and used as useful idiots.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have made the content that was broadly the same anyway, just observing that their content was exactly what a Russian-directed foreign malign influence campaign wanted.
 
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wing2000

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+ (same article)

"Separately, the DOJ accused two Russian employees of RT, the Russian state-owned media outlet, of a nearly $10 million scheme to create and distribute content to U.S. audiences while keeping the connection to Russia hidden.

RT worked with an online content creation company in Tennessee, which was directed to contract with U.S. social media influencers to distribute its content on social media platforms including, TikTok, X, Instagram and YouTube. Since November, the company posted more than 2,000 videos that received more than 16 million views on YouTube, according to the indictment."
 
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Ana the Ist

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+ (same article)

"Separately, the DOJ accused two Russian employees of RT, the Russian state-owned media outlet, of a nearly $10 million scheme to create and distribute content to U.S. audiences while keeping the connection to Russia hidden.

RT worked with an online content creation company in Tennessee, which was directed to contract with U.S. social media influencers to distribute its content on social media platforms including, TikTok, X, Instagram and YouTube. Since November, the company posted more than 2,000 videos that received more than 16 million views on YouTube, according to the indictment."

Isn't this exactly what the Harris campaign has been doing?


Other than the fact that one is Russia and one is Harris....what exactly is the difference here?
 
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wing2000

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Ana the Ist

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Distributing Russian propaganda?
No offense but when Hillary argued Russians distributed info on her....it was true. Last election Democratic Party claims of Russian propaganda were false. This is a grain of salt at best.
 
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wing2000

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No offense but when Hillary argued Russians distributed info on her....it was true. Last election Democratic Party claims of Russian propaganda were false. This is a grain of salt at best.

The Harris campaign?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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It seems as if it's not really money well-spent on the part of the Russians.

The TN media company in question is Tenet Media (launched in 2023).

And the list of commentators most well known in that media group (the article lists the names) were already pretty critical of US support for Ukraine (as well as their "politically divisive" commentary on the other listed issues) when they were working for other media groups previously.

So, at most, it sounds like they got $10 million dollars to keep doing the same thing they were already previously doing (with maybe just a slightly better production values)

$10 million seems pretty cheap for a PsyOp.
 
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Hans Blaster

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It seems as if it's not really money well-spent on the part of the Russians.
Possibly not.
The TN media company in question is Tenet Media (launched in 2023).
Yep, they're the ones.
And the list of commentators most well known in that media group (the article lists the names) were already pretty critical of US support for Ukraine (as well as their "politically divisive" commentary on the other listed issues) when they were working for other media groups previously.
I think the question becomes how critical and when. Russia wasn't likely to pick gung-ho, pro Ukraine conservatives for this task. They likely chose either those who were skeptical or had formed no real opinion yet or had soft opposition turned them to hard opposition. But we'll sort it out. These people have a *very* extensive public record of opinions on video (it's almost like that's how they make a living) that will be analyzed.
So, at most, it sounds like they got $10 million dollars to keep doing the same thing they were already previously doing (with maybe just a slightly better production values)
I suspect the on camera guys mostly pocketed the additional cash. I do expect that we will see evidence of increased pro-Russian/anti-Ukriaine rhetoric and Kremlin talking points. One of the, Tim Pool, had a very shouty rant against Ukraine on camera (and I don't recall him being a particularly shouty guy usually) that started "Ukraine is an enemy of the US". Subtle, Tim, subtle.
$10 million seems pretty cheap for a PsyOp.
In contrast, on night one of the new major terror raids a few days ago, Russia used about $1bn in missiles and long-range drones to blow up power infrastructure and apartment buildings in Ukraine.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I think the question becomes how critical and when. Russia wasn't likely to pick gung-ho, pro Ukraine conservatives for this task. They likely chose either those who were skeptical or had formed no real opinion yet or had soft opposition turned them to hard opposition. But we'll sort it out. These people have a *very* extensive public record of opinions on video (it's almost like that's how they make a living) that will be analyzed.
I'm only vaguely familiar with Pool. I'm aware of him, but the only time I've really heard him is on other peoples' podcasts.

Dave Rubin on the other hand, I'm a little more familiar with his content.

He's been something of a libertarian leaning conservative for going on 4-5 years now (he used to work for the Young Turks at one point, and ended up working for Glen Beck for a stint before doing his own thing in 2020. The divisive topics they mention, he's been critical of for a while.

With regards to the charges being levied against RT:
If there's evidence of election interference attempts, that's certainly a valid charge, by all means throw the book at them.

However, some of the things The Justice Departments lists is "create social divisions" and "will not tolerate attempts by an outside nation to exploit our country’s free exchange of ideas" are a little more vague.

I find those accusations to be a tad curious...
1) Promoting one viewpoint over the other on a politically divisive issue isn't "creating social divisions", it's simply the nature of discourse when an issue is already divisive.

2) If by "exploit our country's free exchange of ideas" they mean "try to get public opinion in one direction over the other", then that casts a pretty wide net that include a bunch of different things.


For instance, when they brought the Ukrainian president in to do high profile interviews on CNN, Meet the Press, and the very televised address to congress that he did (where he pleaded with the US for support), isn't that sort of the same thing? A foreign entity trying to shape the US public opinion for his own benefit with regards to the "Ukraine funding Debate"?

Even the approach the justice department is using with this could be considered a form of the very type of manipulation they're accusing RT of doing. Highly publicizing this as a means to shape public opinion on the series of issues they laid out by implying/conveying the idea that "if you've taken the conservative position on Ukrainian funding, Migrant policy, or the Trans debate, it's likely a result of Russian propaganda, they're just trying to whip you up into a frenzy because they want republicans to win" by branding it as a "sophisticated influence campaign".

I don't know how sophisticated one can really call it. Giving a conservative media company $10 million dollars to "keep doing what they're doing" isn't exactly the elite covert PsyOp as implied by the sensational sounding descriptions.

It'd be like a sensational headline saying "DEA uncovers elite, highly sophisticated drug dealing operation", and it turns out, it just ends up being "yeah, you give the money to Jim, and then one of Jim's buddies delivers the drugs later so that the money and drugs aren't in the same place"



In practical terms, where would the line get drawn in terms of which divisive issues a foreign power figure could try to influence US public opinion on without running afoul of the "creating social divisions and putting undue influence our country's exchange of ideas"?

For example
Justin Trudeau went on something of an "American Podcast Tour" in 2022, in which he definitely had no shortage of things to say about US gun control policy, promoted a Pro-choice position, as well as some thoughts about Jared Kuschner. Certainly all polarizing things. I don't think any of us would brand that as some nefarious influence campaign. So where does it cross the line from "here's some policies I'd really like to see people in the US get behind, so I'll go on a podcast and talk about it" to "illegal meddling and creating division"
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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From the details of the indictment, it looks like a handful of US right wing/conservative/alt-right 'content' producers got scooped up and used as useful idiots.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have made the content that was broadly the same anyway, just observing that their content was exactly what a Russian-directed foreign malign influence campaign wanted.
The accusation is ridiculously worded. Various speakers - who don't even agree with each other - sometimes apparently "aligned with Russian interests".

Well, I'm sure if you listened to anyone blather on on media outlets, you would find SOMETHING said that "aligns with Russian interests." Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

Sounds like misdirection. Squirrel!!!!
 
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Ana the Ist

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I think the question becomes how critical and when. Russia wasn't likely to pick gung-ho, pro Ukraine conservatives for this task. They likely chose either those who were skeptical or had formed no real opinion yet or had soft opposition turned them to hard opposition.

The idea that opposing US intervention in the Ukraine is spreading Russian propaganda is a bit silly.

No....it's outright nonsense.

Surely we can have completely legitimate non-russian motivated grounds for being against the war effort in the Ukraine.

It's like those folks opposed to our support for Israel. Is it possible they're influenced by Hamas? Yes. Is that a reasonable assumption about anyone? Maybe queers for Palestine but not really anyone else.




I suspect the on camera guys mostly pocketed the additional cash. I do expect that we will see evidence of increased pro-Russian/anti-Ukriaine rhetoric and Kremlin talking points. One of the, Tim Pool, had a very shouty rant against Ukraine on camera (and I don't recall him being a particularly shouty guy usually) that started "Ukraine is an enemy of the US". Subtle, Tim, subtle.

Again, apply similar standards to the various campus protests in favor of Palestine.


In contrast, on night one of the new major terror raids a few days ago, Russia used about $1bn in missiles and long-range drones to blow up power infrastructure and apartment buildings in Ukraine.
 
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wing2000

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Even the approach the justice department is using with this could be considered a form of the very type of manipulation they're accusing RT of doing. Highly publicizing this as a means to shape public opinion on the series of issues they laid out by implying/conveying the idea that "if you've taken the conservative position on Ukrainian funding, Migrant policy, or the Trans debate, it's likely a result of Russian propaganda, they're just trying to whip you up into a frenzy because they want republicans to win" by branding it as a "sophisticated influence campaign".

IMO, the Justice Department has an obligation to warn the American public of Russia's activities and to be vigilant with the information we consume.
 
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wing2000

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Mock News Sites.....

"Into the depleted field of journalism in America, a handful of websites have appeared in recent weeks with names suggesting a focus on news close to home: D.C. Weekly, the New York News Daily, the Chicago Chronicle and a newer sister publication, the Miami Chronicle.

In fact, they are not local news organizations at all. They are Russian creations, researchers and government officials say, meant to mimic actual news organizations to push Kremlin propaganda by interspersing it among an at-times odd mix of stories about crime, politics and culture.

While Russia has long sought ways to influence public discourse in the United States, the fake news organizations — at least five, so far — represent a technological leap in its efforts to find new platforms to dupe unsuspecting American readers. The sites, the researchers and officials said, could well be the foundations of an online network primed to surface disinformation ahead of the American presidential election in November."

 
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ThatRobGuy

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IMO, the Justice Department has an obligation to warn the American public of Russia's activities and to be vigilant with the information we consume.
Warn, sure...that's fine. However, it sounds like it's more than just a warning.

The two RT employees, Kostiantyn Kalashnikov, 31, and Elena Afanasyeva, 27, have been charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering and conspiracy to violate the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

"The American people are entitled to know when a foreign power is attempting to exploit our country's free exchange of ideas in order to send around its own propaganda," Attorney General Merrick Garland said Wednesday.

The two indictments come as the U.S. has been increasingly warning about Russia’s efforts to influence U.S. voters through a variety of efforts.

In a statement on its website ahead of the charges, RT dismissed the findings, joking that their responses included comments like “Ha!” and “2016 called and it wants its clichés back.”

Garland made clear to reporters that he was not amused.

"I'm sure that was much funnier in the original Russian, but for us, it's not funny," Garland said. "This is deadly serious and we are going to treat it accordingly."




Per the other article:
According to the indictment, RT has funneled nearly $10 million into the project, with the goal of “amplifying domestic division” in the U.S.

RT was sanctioned and forced to cease operations in the U.S. and Canada following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022.


It would seem like a "you're not allowed to hear the other side's narratives" is an inverse (but equal) form of public manipulation.

They allowed Al Jazeera America to operate without sanctions despite that being a media company ran out of a country that we know to be giving safe haven to bona fide terrorists and definitely having a certain bias on specific issues.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm only vaguely familiar with Pool. I'm aware of him, but the only time I've really heard him is on other peoples' podcasts.

Dave Rubin on the other hand, I'm a little more familiar with his content.

He's been something of a libertarian leaning conservative for going on 4-5 years now (he used to work for the Young Turks at one point, and ended up working for Glen Beck for a stint before doing his own thing in 2020. The divisive topics they mention, he's been critical of for a while.

With regards to the charges being levied against RT:
If there's evidence of election interference attempts, that's certainly a valid charge, by all means throw the book at them.

Indeed. It doesn't appear they're being charged with election interference though....it looks like they're being charged with not registering as foreign advocates. That's something I thought was only necessary for lobbying the government.

However, some of the things The Justice Departments lists is "create social divisions" and "will not tolerate attempts by an outside nation to exploit our country’s free exchange of ideas" are a little more vague.

I find those accusations to be a tad curious...
1) Promoting one viewpoint over the other on a politically divisive issue isn't "creating social divisions", it's simply the nature of discourse when an issue is already divisive.

2) If by "exploit our country's free exchange of ideas" they mean "try to get public opinion in one direction over the other", then that casts a pretty wide net that include a bunch of different things.


For instance, when they brought the Ukrainian president in to do high profile interviews on CNN, Meet the Press, and the very televised address to congress that he did (where he pleaded with the US for support), isn't that sort of the same thing? A foreign entity trying to shape the US public opinion for his own benefit with regards to the "Ukraine funding Debate"?

It seems like the same thing.


Even the approach the justice department is using with this could be considered a form of the very type of manipulation they're accusing RT of doing. Highly publicizing this as a means to shape public opinion on the series of issues they laid out by implying/conveying the idea that "if you've taken the conservative position on Ukrainian funding, Migrant policy, or the Trans debate, it's likely a result of Russian propaganda, they're just trying to whip you up into a frenzy because they want republicans to win" by branding it as a "sophisticated influence campaign".

Indeed.


I don't know how sophisticated one can really call it. Giving a conservative media company $10 million dollars to "keep doing what they're doing" isn't exactly the elite covert PsyOp as implied by the sensational sounding descriptions.

It'd be like a sensational headline saying "DEA uncovers elite, highly sophisticated drug dealing operation", and it turns out, it just ends up being "yeah, you give the money to Jim, and then one of Jim's buddies delivers the drugs later so that the money and drugs aren't in the same place"

DEA finds drug cartels working with president....or Biden in talks with Pfizer over prescription costs.



In practical terms, where would the line get drawn in terms of which divisive issues a foreign power figure could try to influence US public opinion on without running afoul of the "creating social divisions and putting undue influence our country's exchange of ideas"?

For example
Justin Trudeau went on something of an "American Podcast Tour" in 2022, in which he definitely had no shortage of things to say about US gun control policy, promoted a Pro-choice position, as well as some thoughts about Jared Kuschner. Certainly all polarizing things. I don't think any of us would brand that as some nefarious influence campaign. So where does it cross the line from "here's some policies I'd really like to see people in the US get behind, so I'll go on a podcast and talk about it" to "illegal meddling and creating division"
 
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Danthemailman

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Republicans are disseminating Russian propaganda and it's the Dems' fault?
If you want to see what the Democrats are up to, just listen to what they accuse others of doing.
 
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