anti-Catholic or not?

[Servus]

Yes, Christ and His Church are One. Unity in His Church is Unity in Him.

Unfortunately, we have many who put themselves ahead of Him and His Church.

Since Christ and His Church are one, isn't His Church comprised of all those who have faith in Christ?

 

[David Lamb]

All I see on these forums are debates between Catholics and Protestants. Personally, I believe that we’re all Christians, despite our differences. Even within Protestant groups, there are diverse views. We all hold our beliefs to be true, but at the end of the day, we’re more alike than different. We all believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour, and that should unite us in love rather than divide us.

There are plenty of threads which are not debates between Catholics and Protestants. Here are just 3 that I came across without looking very hard: Does it ever make you wonder if the scriptures are truly meant for humans? Sylvester Stallone reveals he survived an abortion – and he’s one of thousands How to prove that nothing happens without God's permission

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

You mean those who go Lone Ranger in deciding what Vatican policy should be?

No the segment that would like to go back to 1950's.

 

[Sunflower39]

There are plenty of threads which are not debates between Catholics and Protestants. Here are just 3 that I came across without looking very hard: Does it ever make you wonder if the scriptures are truly meant for humans? Sylvester Stallone reveals he survived an abortion – and he’s one of thousands How to prove that nothing happens without God's permission

I’ve come across quite a few, even some discussions that didn’t begin as Protestant vs. Catholic debates but eventually turned into one.

 

[concretecamper]

Since Christ and His Church are one, isn't His Church comprised of all those who have faith in Christ?

No, Scripture tells us that through Water Baptism, we are made part of His Body, which is the Church.

Sadly some leave His Church to follow Luther, Calvin, Smith, Pastor Billy Bob, etc etc etc and put their faith in any one of these men.

 

[Servus]

No, Scripture tells us that through Water Baptism, we are made part of His Body, which is the Church.

Okay how about Since Christ and His Church are one, isn't His Church comprised of all those who have faith in Christ and are baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

Sadly some leave His Church to follow Luther, Calvin, Smith, Pastor Billy Bob, etc etc etc and put their faith in any one of these men.

 

[Sunflower39]

Personally it’s not the Catholic people I’m against it’s the numerous things entailing Catholicism that worry me.The worship of Mary,Removal of the second commandment,requiring priests be addressed as father,etc

I don’t want this to sound like a critical opinion of Catholics.i love them deeply,but I can’t help but feel like something is completely wrong with these Catholic doctrines

I don’t understand this. Why do some Protestant groups (and I say ‘some’ because I’m Protestant and I see it differently) claim that Catholics worship Mary? I don’t believe they do. I see it as them holding her in high regard, yes, but not actually worshipping her. The level of veneration they show to Mary is more than I’m comfortable with, but I don’t view it as worship.

I don’t see the problem with calling a priest "Father" either, as it’s used in a different context. In my Anglican church, where we use the title "Father" for our priest, it’s not meant to imply that he is "the Father" in the same sense as God. The term "father" can be used in different ways, and here it simply reflects the priest’s role and relationship within the church community.

 

[Servus]

I don’t understand this. Why do some Protestant groups (and I say ‘some’ because I’m Protestant and I see it differently) claim that Catholics worship Mary? I don’t believe they do. I see it as them holding her in high regard, yes, but not actually worshipping her. The level of veneration they show to Mary is more than I’m comfortable with, but I don’t view it as worship.

I don’t see the problem with calling a priest "Father" either, as it’s used in a different context. In my Anglican church, where we use the title "Father" for our priest, it’s not meant to imply that he is "the Father" in the same sense as God. The term "father" can be used in different ways, and here it simply reflects the priest’s role and relationship within the church community.

Because it appears that Catholics worship Mary. Usually whenever they hear a Catholic pray out loud the prayer starts out with "Hail Mary..."

 

[concretecamper]

Okay how about Since Christ and His Church are one, isn't His Church comprised of all those who have faith in Christ and are baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

His Church are made up of validly Baptized People. Now, depending on the strength of the faith of those Baptized persons, they may choose to stay or exit His Church. This much we know through Scripture and Tradition.

You seem to be pushing the word phrase "faith in Jesus Christ". I suspect I have a much deeper meaning of that phrase and how one demonstrates it than what you are presenting.

 

[Servus]

His Church are made up of validly Baptized People. Now, depending on the strength of the faith of those Baptized persons, they may choose to stay or exit His Church. This much we know through Scripture and Tradition.

You seem to be pushing the word phrase "faith in Jesus Christ". I suspect I have a much deeper meaning of that phrase and how one demonstrates it than what you are presenting.

What constitutes valid baptism?

 

[concretecamper]

What constitutes valid baptism?

Read the end of Matthew's Gospel

 

[Servus]

Read the end of Matthew's Gospel

Regarding baptism it says: "Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

But when I said: Okay how about Since Christ and His Church are one, isn't His Church comprised of all those who have faith in Christ and are baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

You seemed to contradict that by saying: His Church are made up of validly Baptized People.

 

[CoreyD]

I watched a YouTube series about the formation of the various denominations -- UsefulCharts: Christian Denominations Family Tree. Very interesting, albeit long. If you have the time, I found it very educational.

The lesson I indirectly drew from his presentation is that there appears to be the following cycle:

1. First, there are some reformers that dissatisfied with the status quo ...
2. So they try to institute change within their organization.
3. The powers-that-be often resist change, and thus ...
4. the reformers break away and set up a new organization.
5. But then this new organization seems to crystalize into a new inflexible system until ...
6. the cycle repeats.

I think you raised at least 2 points:

1. Do Catholics have doctrines that you and others have disagree with?
2. Do Catholics have flexibility, ability, and willingness to change in response to doctrinal problems as they come to light?

Regarding point #2, I would argue that this is not a particularly Catholic issue. Every denomination -- including my own -- has this problem. I am SDA, which has a distributed governance type organization. Pastors are paid by the organization, and are thus answerable to that organization. So what will happen if a pastor has a doctrinal difference of opinion? I don't know all the details, and I'm sure there is due process. But ultimately a church is not going to pay for someone to teach things that are outside the accepted standard. I suspect this is true in many denominations. I think that many Baptist churches are congregational (pastor is answerable only to a board of elders), which may avoid some of these problems. Again, though, I don't know the particulars.

One particular issue my denomination has faced has been the ordination of female pastors. Church conferences on the west coast of the US have gone forward with the practice. But many more conservative conferences in Latin America do not feel this is right. There have been meetings between the conferences, but I don't think a unified resolution has come out yet. I try to stay away from such politics. This particular issue is felt to not be sufficient to cause a split in the way that the United Methodist church recently split. So perhaps my denomination is doing an OK job of trying to be flexible, and meet people's needs, but not tear itself apart.

A deeper questions would be, how SHOULD these things be sorted out? In the first recorded meeting of the Christian church, at the Council of Jerusalem, they gathered and debated the issue of circumcision etc. Ultimately a resolution was established, though perhaps all did not agree. This seems like a reasonable solution. And it is all these accumulated synods that make up Catholic traditional teaching. Much of it good, but I feel not all.

I don't have all the answers.

I appreciate you honesty.
A Bible writer said, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

This same writer, also said, "This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3, 4

Another writer said, "So He [Jesus] said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”" John 8:31, 32

Would you agree the Bible has all the answers?

Ultimately, if we are sheep and Jesus is our shepherd and leader, then He may lead his flock in circuitous paths. If any establishment decides that they have it all figured out, and circles the wagons around their established "truth", there are going to be problems when God has new plans.

Best wishes,

KT

What if Jesus recognizes none of them as sheep? What then?

 

[Sunflower39]

Because it appears that Catholics worship Mary. Usually whenever they hear a Catholic pray out loud the prayer starts out with "Hail Mary..."

But they don’t, do they? They ask for her intercession rather than worship her. This has been explained many times on these forums. Worship has a subjective element, and if someone says they don’t worship Mary, then they likely mean it.

 

[concretecamper]

Regarding baptism it says: "Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

But when I said: Okay how about Since Christ and His Church are one, isn't His Church comprised of all those who have faith in Christ and are baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

You seemed to contradict that by saying: His Church are made up of validly Baptized People.

You are adding to what I said. Re-read post #90. I've been consistent with what I have said.

You seem to be trying to catch me on something. Why don't you come right out and ask what you want to know.

 

[Servus]

You are adding to what I said. Re-read post #90. I've been consistent with what I have said.

You seem to be trying to catch me on something. Why don't you come right out and ask what you want to know.

I want to know what you're getting at.

 

[Mark Quayle]

But they don’t, do they? They ask for her intercession rather than worship her. This has been explained many times on these forums. Worship has a subjective element, and if someone says they don’t worship Mary, then they likely mean it.

I'm guessing you've not been to South America.

 

[Clare73]

Exactly. Some on this thread don't think history is relevant unless explicitly referenced in the Bible.

Catholic reference was to the Catholic Church
Christians refer to members of the Catholic Church

So Catholic church refers to Christians.

 

[concretecamper]

I want to know what you're getting at.

I've been crystal clear.

 

[concretecamper]

So Catholic church refers to Christians.

One is His Body, the other are the Member of His Body. It's not too hard to understand now is it