If Trump Loses, Elites Will Rule Unchallenged For Decades

[Vambram]

Have you listened to him talk? Well that aside,

Your argument is that even if Trump is an elitist, that's okay, it's "those other elitists" that are the problem?

You haven't thought this through very much.

-CryptoLUtheran

I don't believe that he considers himself to be an elitist. I know that myself and his MAGA supporters don't consider Trump to be an elitist.

 

[rjs330]

That isn’t true.

Well it's awfully close.

Share of households paying no income tax by income level U.S. 2025| Statista

In total, about 60.4 percent of U.S.

www.statista.com

This is such a silly take. Personal income taxes for most people are fairly easy and could be even easier if people opted not to avail themselves of the deductions available to them.

How silly would people have to be not to take rhe deductions available to.them.

It would be even easier if rhere was a flat tax.

No, it isn't. After regular life expenses like housing, food, etc, it leaves the poor with a smaller proportion of their income than a progressive system.

Yes it is. In order to.have a fair system in your methodology everything would have to be wealth dependant. The poor pay the same price for a loaf of bread as rhe rich do. The same coat for a gallon of gas. They should pay the same cost for taxes.

 

[rjs330]

You're conflating "better" with "more qualified." No, it's not good to treat experts as "better" people, but it's pretty laughable to suggest that they're less qualified for job in their areas of expertise than some randos off the street. It's textbook anti-intellectualism to scoff at the notion that many of these professional jobs require the sort of technical expertise that comes from years and years of study and practice.

We aren't talking about expertise. We are talking about elitists and elitism. A person who goes to Harvard or lives in a city isn't any smarter than someone who.went to a.state Univeraity.

You may be an expert plumber but you have no better idea on how to run my life than I do. You may have gone to law school but you are not expert on how better to.run the country than an accountant or a farmer. In fact a farmer might know.a.great more.about how to run things than some.doofys who went to law school. They have real.life experience on costs of labor and finance, future planning and financial.ptojections of costs and income.

Weve all seen a lot of dumb politicians who supposedly went to the best schools. The elitist attitude is I know.bettet how to run your life than you do, you are all too stupid to.do.it yourself, you need our help becauae we are smarter and better.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Well it's awfully close.

Share of households paying no income tax by income level U.S. 2025| Statista

In total, about 60.4 percent of U.S.

www.statista.com

No, it’s not “awfully close.” You originally claimed that “50% of Americans pay zero taxes.” What you demonstrated was that 40% of people pay no federal income tax. You made the same mistake that Romney made in that infamous video where he conflated federal income taxes with all taxes.

Not only are income taxes not the only taxes levied, they’re not even the majority of taxes withheld for most workers:

New Report Shows the Burdens of Payroll and Income Taxes

The payroll tax is regressive, while the income tax is progressive. New report shows the payroll tax burden and the income tax burden.

taxfoundation.org

How silly would people have to be not to take rhe deductions available to.them.

If you’re complaining about complexity, it’s an easy way to simplify things.

It would be even easier if rhere was a flat tax.

A flat tax is only marginally more simple than a progressive scheme. Calculating a handful of brackets is neither complicated nor difficult. Yes, tracking deductions can be arduous, but those are separate from the taxation rate.

Yes it is. In order to.have a fair system in your methodology everything would have to be wealth dependant. The poor pay the same price for a loaf of bread as rhe rich do. The same coat for a gallon of gas. They should pay the same cost for taxes.

Define “fairness” however you like, but the system you propose would represent a substantial hike for the poor and a substantial cut for the affluent.

 

[iluvatar5150]

We aren't talking about expertise. We are talking about elitists and elitism.

The OP is about the upcoming election, which involves staffing an entire administration of people who do jobs within the government. Yes, we absolutely are talking about professional expertise.

You may be an expert plumber but you have no better idea on how to run my life than I do. You may have gone to law school but you are not expert on how better to.run the country than an accountant or a farmer.

A lawyer will absolutely have a better understanding of the law, which is pretty important in the government- the entity that crafts, implements, and enforces the law.

 

[stevil]

Elitists are not necessarily the best and brightest. They just think they are.

Case in point - Donald Trump.

Born into a mega wealthy family.
Given millions of dollars before puberty hits.
Given the keys to the Trump empire
Lives in a palace
Has a team of lawyers to threaten and destroy anyone who gets in his way.
Went to ivy league school but didn't really seem to learn anything (perhaps his qualifications were bought rather than earned)
Got out of military service as he paid off a Doctor to claim he has bone spurs
Has a deal with his elite media buddies to catch and kill negative stories against him.
Destroys the careers of people just doing their jobs e.g. that guy that wrote an article about Trump Casino, his assessment was correct, but Trump pulled his elite strings, got the guy fired, made sure he couldn't get suitable employment.

In office Trump hires his elitist children into office, he brings in his elitist millionaire buddies, he drops tax for the wealthy, he tries to drop healthcare for the poor

He pardons his elitist friends when they get caught doing crimes, like stealing from the Build a Wall fund.
He doesn't pardon the plebs that raided the capitol on his orders.
Year later he does an interview with his elitist buddy Elon, they both have a good chuckle as they laugh about firing the middle class if they dare to stand up for workers rights.

 

[A2SG]

I have been expecting this old lie to be repeated now that the Trump campaign is beginning to flounder.

No rigorous investigations have found a single example of the Democratic Party attempting to rig the 2020 election. That is because it only happened in the imagination of Trump when he first began to believe he might lose.

(There were numerous multiple votes of Republicans but they did not affect any result.)

It's amazing to me that so many MAGA adherents feel the Democratic Party is so ruthlessly efficient and completely, totally organized as to carry off a scheme of the magnitude that rigging a national election would require, all without leaving even a whiff of a trace of evidence behind, to this day. It almost makes the Democratic Party seem like a Bond-villain level organization.

Anyone who has seen the Democratic Party in action knows how ridiculous this is.

-- A2SG, especially those of us who are Democrats.....

 

[Pommer]

It's amazing to me that so many MAGA adherents feel the Democratic Party is so ruthlessly efficient and completely, totally organized as to carry off a scheme of the magnitude that rigging a national election would require, all without leaving even a whiff of a trace of evidence behind, to this day. It almost makes the Democratic Party seem like a Bond-villain level organization.

Anyone who has seen the Democratic Party in action knows how ridiculous this is.

-- A2SG, especially those of us who are Democrats.....

View attachment 354135

The GOP didn’t even have to defend itself for letting all of this “cheating” happen. Why’s that? one wonders.

 

[A2SG]

The GOP didn’t even have to defend itself for letting all of this “cheating” happen. Why’s that? one wonders.

Because they were outsmarted by Spectre...er, I mean the Democratic Party.

Of course.

-- A2SG, more like KAOS I'd think, but not to hear MAGA tell the story....

 

[Pommer]

I don't believe that he considers himself to be an elitist. I know that myself and his MAGA supporters don't consider Trump to be an elitist.

He’s literally told the American people that “only I” can solve the problems.
If that isn’t “elitist”, then maybe we need a new word for whatever ^^^ this is.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I don't believe that he considers himself to be an elitist. I know that myself and his MAGA supporters don't consider Trump to be an elitist.

It is Trump's great psychological trauma that he is not welcome among the fancy people with their cocktail parties in the Upper East Side. He *needs* to be thought of as smarter, wealthier, and prettier than the rest. He longs for nothing more than the recognition of NY's social elites. That's why he'll always talk to the NY Times, etc.

 

[Belk]

Spoken with the true elitist attitude.

Oh noes! I have been labeled! Apparently, if the discussion of racism is any guide, this is an attempt to silence me.

 

[Nithavela]

Oh noes! I have been labeled! Apparently, if the discussion of racism is any guide, this is an attempt to silence me.

Just be glad that you live in the USA, or any commentary on american politics would be answered by questions about your homecountry.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

yeah, because facts and reality don't matter to the right, only what ever makes them feel better, or get angry.

actually that is what the left does

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Such as?

We’re living through Barack Obama’s third term

One of the big questions in Washington and across the country as Joe Biden’s very public decline has accelerated is: who’s actually running the show at the White House? There have been various answers, including former White House chief of staff Ron Klain and former National Security Advisor...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Richard T]

I thought I would add that Trump was an elite but he is not a team player because Trump is nationalist and true elites represent global aspirations. They want cooperation for all markets, they love labor mobility, (legal and illegal) and they seek more control than than any national government. Their globalist agenda pushes things in healthcare, education, their set of human rights, their version of government regulations and environmental policy.

Elites are embedded in both parties. They also are in media, in think tanks, and many corporations. Simply put they are leaders that have an agenda and they loosely work together to bring about this vision. Many think they organize through secret societies and they have been around the USA since it's founding. They do push out those that oppose their views. They too absorb or groom those who are bright and showing leadership. Vance to me seems to be such an elite. A so-called hillbilly that was subsumed by the elite. (I hope I am wrong but quite a rise to power). Walz too ditching his rural Nebraska roots to become a leftist frontman, and China lover. Most politicians sell out this way. This is why you see so many flip-flop on issues. Some flip flops are just for getting votes, other flip flops are for the "team."

Some think the elites are still the "noblesse oblige" types, that truly want to do what they think are the best for others. Others might think they are more sinister, even to the point of following an anti-christ agenda. Anyway, just a few things to think about.

Elites always will be challenged. Many people vote based on economics. If Harris is elected and fails miserably it will shift things greatly away from elite influence. If Trump however were elected and failed, then i would argue that the elites would really gain longer term control.

Ultimately, God has the final say but the end times are approaching and the U.S. is still the greatest power. Ask yourself how she may have to bend to secure the end times? Psalm 2 also is good on this topic.

 

[Richard T]

If that is true I agree. However 50% of Americans pay zero taxes. Thats unfair as well. Thats why I'm a true supporter if the flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage. No tax deductions, nothing. You pay a certain percentage and that's it. If you made a million you pay 13%. If you made 40000 you pay 13%. You nake 25000 you pay 13% No one has to spend a lot of time filing thier taxes or hiring tax people to help. The IRS is all but eliminated. Nit completely because there are those who will still cheat.

The flat tax is the most fair system.

I;m not against the flat tax but to raise the amount of money that the current government consumes, it would probably need to be far more than 13%, probably double that might work if you include health care and prescriptions and all services, like cable, electric, contractors, etc. So the first problem to be solved is reigning in the federal budget.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I know that myself and his MAGA supporters don't consider Trump to be an elitist.

If you don't consider Trump an elitist then the term "elite" is clearly meaningless here. It's a completely arbitrary term applied to people you don't like, and that renders it entirely meaningless.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Another example of an elitist attitude.

Whatever happened to no one is better than anyone else? A Harvard grad isn't better than Joe plumber. Those that live in tge cities aren't better than those in tge country.

Elitists aren't better, smarter, more worthy than anyone else. They just think they are. They fly thier jets while telling the rest of us we need to fly commercial or not at all. They demand we cut our carbon footprint and live in community dwellings while they live in one or more mansions and buy up acres and acres of land so they can live alone.

The elites claim of you didn't go to one of their approved elite schools and instead went to a smaller lesser known school you aren't as educated or as smart as people who went to the elite school.

And anyone of us can get an elitist attitude. Conservatives are not exempt from such things. We all need to check ourselves.

The proper term we should be using is meritocratic; competency and merit is how people should be judged fit for a position. That isn't elitism. It isn't elitism that someone has earned a position through their own skill and competency, it would--however--be elitism for someone to think they deserve a position because they are just superior because of their, oh let's say, wealth or ego.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Richard T]

This will clear up your view of who the elites really are. Trump is elite but he is not a member of the "power elite" though he shares some common ground with them. Thus, Trump is opposed furiously, because no one can control him. He is influenced though in some areas though and even hires power elites that are not very loyal. Bannon and Peter Navarro are examples of some who are loyal to Trump. They are competitors to the power elite.

The Power Elite

Who Rules America: The Class-Domination Theory of Power

whorulesamerica.ucsc.edu

The American Government in many ways is run like the Chicago police department/mob in the movie "Untouchables." Kevin Costner, had to go outside the whole department to find uncompromised individuals. He hired rookies like Andy Garcia, He found an insider (Sean Connery) that would turn against the department, who later was killed for going against the elites holding the power in Chicago.

Inserting Trump in the midst of the American government that is somewhat corrupt like Chicago in the movie presented a wild-card. He threatens the power elite because Trump sometimes will go against the grain too. Unlike Costner, Trump is not so pure himself. So between the lies they make up and the baggage of Trump they sure have targeted him. Unlike Clinton, Obama and Biden who skated on all their indiscretions. (except monica)

I once saw an interview when Elizabeth Warren first became a Senator. She basically had a conversation with Power elites (unnamed democrats) who told her if she was not a team player that nothing she wanted would ever see the light of day. The second article outlines the power elites nicely. They describe the interaction between think tanks and policy-makers. It describes how the elites can come from the working class. The reality is that while we think we are getting diversity, the grip on power is quite tight. Lots of figureheads that come and go but few know who exactly is running the show.