Louisiana classrooms now required by law to display the Ten Commandments

[Hans Blaster]

Well, aside from everything else that I've mentioned in this thread, like the Decalogue plastered all over the Nation's Capital, I suppose if we ignore this nation's founding document; one could gain that impression.

Which Creator?

I'll give you a hint. It's not the Ishtar Bunny.

The Constitution mentions no "Creator".

 

[prodromos]

There are a lot of unknowns here for you to be calling for anyone's head, it seems to me.

You seem to be confusing @The Liturgist with me. He never called for anyone's head.

 

[HARK!]

The Constitution mentions no "Creator".

It's not the founding document either.

 

[The Liturgist]

But why did you ask this of me?

Because you’re a Unitarian and are on CF.com. It seemed opportune. Frankly I had hoped you would be sympathetic to my concerns given that the UUA still has some Unitarian Christian members, clergy, and even parishes, such as King’s Chapel in Boston, and also historically has a reputation for respecting different religions and being opposed to, among other things, cultural appropriation.

And once again, why did this particular church use this particular cross?

It’s literally painted on the wall behind their pulpit. So why indeed?

Why did they use a chalice at all? Did you attend the service?

The chalice I was referring to was in this case the Flaming Chalice symbol used by the UUA, particularly popular among your parishes which are no longer specifically Christian.

The service I viewed online via livestreaming. I noticed the Orthodox Cross and was curious as to its raison d’etre, and alas, it turned out it was literally a decoration, and an inoffensive and inappropriate one at that. It would be a bit like if an Orthodox church installed an icon depicting the mystical tree of Kabbalah with the ten sephirot. Or if our members started wearing Sikh attire and carrying Sikh religious objects such as their sacred blade (actually I think one of the symbols painted on the wall was Sikh).

 

[BCP1928]

Because you’re a Unitarian and are on CF.com. It seemed opportune. Frankly I had hoped you would be sympathetic to my concerns given that the UUA still has some Unitarian Christian members, clergy, and even parishes, such as King’s Chapel in Boston, and also historically has a reputation for respecting different religions and being opposed to, among other things, cultural appropriation.




It’s literally painted on the wall behind their pulpit. So why indeed?



The chalice I was referring to was in this case the Flaming Chalice symbol used by the UUA, particularly popular among your parishes which are no longer specifically Christian.

The service I viewed online via livestreaming. I noticed the Orthodox Cross and was curious as to its raison d’etre, and alas, it turned out it was literally a decoration, and an inoffensive and inappropriate one at that. It would be a bit like if an Orthodox church installed an icon depicting the mystical tree of Kabbalah with the ten sephirot. Or if our members started wearing Sikh attire and carrying Sikh religious objects such as their sacred blade (actually I think one of the symbols painted on the wall was Sikh).

So there were symbols of various religions painted around the walls?

 

[Hans Blaster]

It's not the founding document either.

It has no legal standing relevant to the topic of this thread.

 

[The Liturgist]

The government of the US is in no way based upon or dependent upon the Christian religion.

This may be the case now at a federal level (although hopefully this suboptimal condition will soon be rectified), but it is clearly not the case at the state level in a great many states, nor was it the case when the US was founded in 1790.

 

[The Liturgist]

So there were symbols of various religions painted around the walls?

No, not on the walls, but on the reredos.

 

[HARK!]

It has no legal standing relevant to the topic of this thread.

Yes it does.

 

[BCP1928]

It's not the founding document either.

But it does tell us how the country is to be run, which the Declaration of Independence does not.

 

[HARK!]

But it does tell us how the country is to be run, which the Declaration of Independence does not.

The Declaration tells us the premise that this country is built on; and without it the Constitution has no standing.

 

[BCP1928]

It tells us the premise that this country is built on.

What do you think that premise is? The Declaration of Independence mentions God several times, but never specifically the Christian God, so it does not invoke any particular Christian doctrine as binding the nation.

 

[HARK!]

What do you think that premise is? The Declaration of Independence mentions God several times, but never specifically the Christian God, so it does not invoke any particular Christian doctrine as binding the nation.

The Creator is the Elohim of the Christians. He is the Creator of all, whether some recognize him or not.

Again, they weren't speaking of the Ishtar Bunny.

 

[BCP1928]

The Creator is the Elohim of the Christians. He is the Creator of all, whether some recognize him or not.

Again, they weren't speaking of the Ishtar Bunny.

Maybe so, for the founders. The impression given is of a deist God invoked as a common denominator for individual beliefs. I see no evidence of any doctrine of a specific Christian sect.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The government of the US is in no way based upon or dependent upon the Christian religion.

The Constitution mentions no "Creator".

It's not the founding document either.

It is the founding document of the government and arguably the nation. The deistic Declaration was nothing more than that: a declaration that the several colonies were independent. There was a bit of an argument over that with the colonizers before there was an opportunity to join the colonies together into a nation. After that failed, they tried again in 1787 with greater success.

 

[The Liturgist]

The impression given is of a deist God invoked as a common denominator for individual beliefs.

Most of the Founding Fathers were not deists, but rather members of traditional Protestant denominations: Anglicans, Presbyterians, Congregationalists. A few were Quakers. A few were Unitarian Christians - heterodox but still Christian. Indeed the only deist among them of any significance was Thomas Jefferson, although he is still a heterodox Christian as opposed to a traditional deist along the lines of Robespierre.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Creator is the Elohim of the Christians. He is the Creator of all, whether some recognize him or not.

And He shall Reign for ever and ever!

 

[BNR32FAN]

LINK

House Bill 71, approved by state lawmakers last month, mandates that a poster-size display of the Ten Commandments with “large, easily readable font” be in every classroom at schools that receive state funding, from kindergarten through the university level.

The legislation specifies the exact language that must be printed on the classroom displays and outlines that the text of the Ten Commandments must be the central focus of the poster or framed document.

In a joint statement prior to the governor’s approval of the measure, the American Civil Liberties Union, the American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana, Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Freedom from Religion Foundation said that the bill was “unconstitutional” and that “many faith-based and civil-rights organizations oppose this measure because it violates students’ and families’ fundamental right to religious freedom.”

From the Bill:

The Ten Commandments
I AM the LORD thy God.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself any graven images.
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is thy neighbor's."

I like the idea but unfortunately I don’t think it’ll last very long.

 

[BCP1928]

Most of the Founding Fathers were not deists, but rather members of traditional Protestant denominations: Anglicans, Presbyterians, Congregationalists. A few were Quakers. A few were Unitarian Christians - heterodox but still Christian. Indeed the only deist among them of any significance was Thomas Jefferson, although he is still a heterodox Christian as opposed to a traditional deist along the lines of Robespierre.

Quite right, and a generic God was invoked in order to include all of their faiths. I see nothing there which requires that the moral code of conservative Christians must be reflected in our laws.

I like the idea but unfortunately I don’t think it’ll last very long.

No, it's too obviously just a gang tag.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Declaration tells us the premise that this country is built on; and without it the Constitution has no standing.

Now I need a new keyboard. The "Declaration" is just political manifesto. It said nothing about forming a country or how it would be run. That took the Articles of Confederation to achieve (and a right failure they were).