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Did God save Trump? Why?

BPPLEE

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Then you might need to explain a bit more hermeneutics, if you would be so kind.
The people wanted a King. It wasn’t God’s plan. He gave them what they wanted. If you know the story it didn’t work out well, and God chose another, a man after God’s own heart.
Saul was what the people wanted. He started out good but then he went terribly wrong.
 
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If you believe in maga you have bigger problems. Instead of touting slogans run the numbers and prove what the candidate says.
I have no problem in desiring for America to be Great Again!
Spend less time on politics and more on economics and you'll understand how things work.
Is that really informed advice since the current type of politics has damaged the economics? I think I understand as much about economics as you do.

Just for one example take the border situation. The overwhelming influx of illegals has put a strain on many states, and cities to the point even liberal leaders are crying for Federal dollars to save their destroyed budgets. We can spend billions on illegals who shouldn't even be here while we have citizens who are homeless, hungry and sick and get very little in the way of help as compared to the benefits given to the illegals.

This is just one liberal economic disaster.
 
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You don't think that applies just as equally to the claims that it was a miracle? Would it have been a miracle if God had steadied the hand of the shooter such that he was able to make his head shot in spite of law enforcement closing in on him?
You just can't get away from trying to tell God what He can or cannot do or should or should have not done. If this, if that is never going t answer your questions on this. God does what he wills and doesn't have to explain it to you or me.
Sure. So why are some folks so eager to ascribe certain events to "miracles"?
Some people actually still believe God is a God of miracles and intervenes in the affaires of men as HE SEES FIT!

I personally think the real problem here with many is that some have demonized Trump to the point they are offended God may not agree with them.
 
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iluvatar5150

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You just can't get away from trying to tell God what He can or cannot do or should or should have not done.

If this, if that is never going t answer your questions on this. God does what he wills and doesn't have to explain it to you or me.

Some people actually still believe God is a God of miracles and intervenes in the affaires of men as HE SEES FIT!

I personally think the real problem here with many is that some have demonized Trump to the point they are offended God may not agree with them.

You're not following my point.

I'm not saying that God did or didn't do anything, or that He could or could not have done anything.

What I am saying is that the folks describing this as a miracle have no idea whether or not this actually was a case of divine intervention and that the claims of it being a miracle are selective, self-serving interpretations that do little more than highlight certain biases in the claimants.

IOW, I'm making a statement the folks making these claims and their ignorance. I'm not making a statement about God.
 
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You're not following my point.

I'm not saying that God did or didn't do anything, or that He could or could not have done anything.

What I am saying is that the folks describing this as a miracle have no idea whether or not this actually was a case of divine intervention and that the claims of it being a miracle are selective, self-serving interpretations that do little more than highlight certain biases in the claimants.

IOW, I'm making a statement the folks making these claims and their ignorance. I'm not making a statement about God.
All I'll say here is if you came that close to death and have a belief in God you just might have a different perspective.

In any case using the word "ignorance" to describe people who believe it was a miracle implies your are superior in knowledge on this.
 
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iluvatar5150

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All I'll say here is if you came that close to death and have a belief in God you just might have a different perspective.

People say lots of things. Experiencing a near miss doesn't given a person any sort of insight into God's handiwork.

In any case using the word "ignorance" to describe people who believe it was a miracle implies your are superior in knowledge on this.

The only superior knowledge I claim here is in the ability to spot the limits of others' knowledge.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Scripture up-ends those regulators in more than one instance. . .
What regulators…? Common sense and logical conclusions?

Not sure that helps your case but ok.
 
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Clare73

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What regulators…? Common sense and logical conclusions?

Not sure that helps your case but ok.
Depends on whom you believe is the Arbiter of Truth.

Where is the "common sense" and "logical conclusion" in Ro 9:10-13?
 
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Halbhh

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This attempted assassination could not have been closer. Another inch and Trump would have been dead. That smacks of Divine Providence but why would God save Trump?

He seems such a divisive figure somebody who would break the current world order jeopardizing the freedoms of countries all over the world. Ukraine and Taiwan are two examples. He is a proven liar, adulterer and fraudster so he has not earned any special grace, so why save the man? What does God want to do here?

Why would the Sovereign Lord permit Trump to survive?
Part of why we plead for mercy for a whole people/nation at times is that when a nation begins to reject learning from God, we read in scripture, such as through the prophet Isaiah -- that God will at times choose to let a nation/people suffer in order to learn from their mistakes of choosing evil by hard experiences and suffering, for their own good:

He will not always hold back from allowing suffering in a nation when people in that nation do too many evils -->

4 “I will make mere youths their officials;
children will rule over them.”

5 People will oppress each other—
man against man, neighbor against neighbor.
The young will rise up against the old,
the nobody against the honored."

-- Isaiah 3 (and do read in full context of chapters 1 to 3 as a whole, and the message is even more emphasized)
==================

God looks to the real long run: that people truly repent of our very real evils, and He will helpfully allow those that even might repent to suffer plenty as that is extremely helpful to those of us that might repent to help lead us to finally repent...

This is a prime reason why God allows so much suffering in the world -- it makes a lot of people grow up and come to repentance and begin to treat others around them better...

So, at times, because He loves us, God will allow us to choose to follow evils like those advocated by Trump, because people need to learn by hard experiences and suffering the real consequences of ignoring His words to us and choosing evil.

We have to learn, somehow, and if we ignore scripture, we can only learn the hard way...by suffering.

The urge to follow the flesh, lusts/anger/evils is exactly one of Trump's main appeals to his followers -- such as that we should deport immigrants instead of loving our neighbors as ourselves.

A precisely opposite action to God's will for how we are to live:

"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." -- Lev 19:34

(here quoted in red because this is literally God Himself speaking these words aloud)

As Christ also said in more detail:


31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


-- Christ Jesus, Matthew 25


So, wishing that none would perish in their sins (2nd Peter 3:9), God will at times let a people suffer for their evils to help them repent (those willing to repent).

So, this is why we at times beg for mercy for our nation, for the profound evil of mistreating the foreigners that come to our land by seeking to deport them back to their nations of origin (where some will be murdered according to death threats they already received from gang in their original nations, and that's why some fled to America.... and other fled here due to desperation from lack of all chances for honest work to make a living....)
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Depends on whom you believe is the Arbiter of Truth.

Where is the "common sense" and "logical conclusion" in Ro 9:10-13?
Where is the common sense and logic in God favoring one child before birth vs the other…? Is that the question…?
 
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Clare73

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Where is the common sense and logic in God favoring one child before birth vs the other…? Is that the question…?
The question is favoring one child over the other. . .
 
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SavedByGrace3

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BPPLEE

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Apparently the OP and anyone else who jumps on the "divine intervention" bandwagon. As an atheist I find it silly, but given my growing up with Christianity I can certainly see how a believer would see the hand of God at work.
I don’t know why Trump lived, saved it seems by turning his head at just the right moment. Why did he live while someone else died? I’m not going to pretend that I know.
If I was him I would be thanking God and that says nothing about the man who died.
 
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