(The First Resurrection) Started with Jesus Christ and is NOW, The Second one is a FUTURE SIFTING

[Grip Docility]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.
4 Life was in Him, and that life was the light of men.
5 That light shines in the darkness, yet the darkness did not overcome it.
John 3:19 “This, then, is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

John the Apologist of Apologist's locates the DARKNESS as within This World and Men that walked within it because their "deeds were evil".

2 Peter 3:8,9 ‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

Peter likens a THOUSAND YEARS unto a DAY and binds this statement to the words "DO NOT FORGET THIS ONE THING". These Thousand Years are likened unto WAITING FOR AS Many that Will Come to Repentance, though God clearly desires that the AS MANY that Will to be OMNIS (Total Number of ALL Mankind).

John 16:7 Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send Him to you.

Jesus reveals that if He doesn't ascend to Heaven, the Holy Spirit won't be able to come.

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Paul reveals that this Holy Spirit is the VERY Holy Ghost of Jesus Christ!

Revelation 1:17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. He laid His right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last, 18 and the Living One. I was dead, but look—I am alive forever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and Hades.

John reveals that Jesus has the KEYS OF DEATH and SHEOL (HADES)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God,

after being put to death in the fleshly realm

but made alive in the spiritual realm.

19 In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison 20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared.

Peter Reveals EXACTLY HOW Jesus got those KEYS and WHY Jesus wanted those KEYS. He goes on to reveal exactly what Jesus did with those Keys!

How? Jesus handed Himself humbly over to His adversary and suffered unto death!
Why? He was determined to bring us to His Eternal Home which is Heaven.
What did He do with them as soon as He got them? He busted as many loose from within Sheol that Believed in Him and repented to the very Belief in Him.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus shouted again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit. 51 Suddenly, the curtain of the sanctuary was split in two from top to bottom; the earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs were also opened and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 And they came out of the tombs after His resurrection, entered the holy city, and appeared to many.

Matthew reveals that Jesus Gave up HIS SPIRIT (GHOST) and we know, thanks to Peter exactly what Jesus did in SPIRIT FORM, within Sheol. After Jesus' Resurrection, Tombs of MANY SAINTS were OPENED and MANY Bodies of Saints came out of those tombs and entered the HOLY CITY (Heavenly Jerusalem) where Many in Heavenly Jerusalem saw THEM!

Hebrews 1:2 But now, in the acharit-hayamim, he has spoken to us through his Son, to whom he has given ownership of everything and through whom he created the universe.

The unknown author of Hebrews reveals that Jesus spoke to the EYE Witnesses in the time of acharit-hayamim.

Acharit Hayamim

A term in Jewish theology that translates to "End of Days" and refers to events that will occur at the end of time. These events include the coming of the Messiah, the afterlife, the resurrection of the dead.

There are only TWO Resurrections. The FIRST RESURRECTION started upon Jesus' Resurrection.

Hebrews 11 and 1 Corinthians 15 are implicit that this first Resurrection is happening even NOW!

Revelation 12:4 And the dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she did give birth he might devour her child. 5 But she gave birth to a Son—a male who is going to shepherd all nations with an iron scepter—and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. ... 7 Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon. The dragon and his angels also fought, 8 but he could not prevail, and there was no place for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was thrown out—the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the one who deceives the whole world. He was thrown to earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: The salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Messiah
have now come, because the accuser of our brothers has been thrown out: the one who accuses them before our God day and night.
11 They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they did not love their lives in the face of death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens, and you who dwell in them!

Woe to the earth and the sea, for the Devil has come down to you with great fury, because he knows he has a short time. (4 His tail swept away a third of the stars in heaven and hurled them to the earth.)

The Dragon tried to kill the Messiah as He was BORN. Jesus WAS Born and he did ASCEND. As soon as Jesus returned to Heaven, WAR broke out and Satan was cast down to the DARKNESS of the EARTH, Bound to Earth with his evil angels. Woe to Earth and SHEOL, because Satan knows that he only has a "short time" left.

Salvation and Power in HEAVEN IS NOW!

Revelation 20:1 And I saw a messenger coming down out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain over his hand,

This is the very HUMBLE Holy Spirit of our Jesus Christ, on His way to fulfill HIS PROMISE of "Sending His Comforter".

Pentecost Happens! The Gospel is Preached and Martyrs are made each day by either the hands of men, or the Death of this fading realm of Flesh that is still under the Authority of Death, with the exception of those that are INDWELLED by the HOLY Spirit of Jesus Christ!

Revelation 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], and chained him up for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, locked it and sealed it over him; so that he could not deceive the nations any more until the thousand years were over. After that, he has to be set free for a little while.

4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them received authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for testifying about Yeshua and proclaiming the Word of God, also those who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands. They came to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is anyone who has a part in the first resurrection; over him the second death has no power. On the contrary, they will be cohanim of God and of the Messiah, and they will rule with him for the thousand years.

Not only is Satan Locked from Heaven, but he and his angels are bound within the darkness of this earth that John spoke of earlier! Satan is not only limited in power and unable to physically present himself before mankind, but the very Presence of God within the Saints binds His Power further! The lies of Death are matched by the TRUTH of the Gospel and not only matched but overwhelmed. The system of "death" is struggling against the SPIRIT of TRUTH day in and Day out!

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Jude specifically states that the devil and his angels are PRESENT Tense Bound with EVERLASTING chains for Judgment on the Great Day! Present tense (CHAINED). Peter says a day is AS A THOUSAND YEARS and JUDE says CHAINED present tense!

John 5:24 Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the One who sent me has eternal life — that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life!

God incarnate Places all that BELIEVE in HIM in the CATAGORY of Those that Have Already crossed over from death to LIFE and WILL not be judged! This binds all who hear the Gospel and BELIEVE in Jesus to THE FIRST Resurrection!

How can we be sure?!?

Revelation 20:6 This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is anyone who has a part in the first resurrection; over him the second death has no power. On the contrary, they will be cohanim of God and of the Messiah, and they will rule with him for the thousand years.

Wait! When is Salvation unto Heaven?!?

2 Corinthians 6:2 "For God says, 'In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.' I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation".

John 6:44 NO MAN CAN COME TO ME, EXCEPT THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME DRAW HIM: AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY.”

John 5:28,29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

No Man "Can Come to Me" (Where is Jesus, NOW?), Except the Father "DRAW" (Pull him to HEAVEN)... Jesus then says He will Raise "him" up at the "LAST DAY". Last day of what? He is referring to HIS last day on earth as a MORTAL MAN! He had already foreshadowed what He means in John 5:28,29

He prophesied of a coming hour where the FIRST Resurrection would begin. Those that do not Believe will be subjected to a final SIFTING!!!! This is the SECOND Resurrection and why do so many desire to bypass the FIRST one that is taking place, NOW?

Amos 9:8 Yet I will not totally destroy the descendants of Jacob,” declares the Lord.
9 “For I will give the command, and I will shake the people of Israel among all the nations as grain is shaken in a sieve, (SIFTED)
and not a pebble will reach the ground.
10 All the sinners among my people will die by the sword, all those who say, ‘Disaster will not overtake or meet us.’

Israel’s Restoration​

11 “In that day “I will restore David’s fallen shelter—
I will repair its broken walls and restore its ruins— and will rebuild it as it used to be,
12 so that they may possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations that bear my name,”
declares the Lord, who will do these things.
13 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills,
14 and I will bring my people Israel back from exile. “They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

Call me crazy, but I want to be part of the FIRST Resurrection which started right after Jesus Resurrected! I need Jesus! I don't desire to be "SIFTED"!

1st Resurrection;

Matthew 27:50 Jesus shouted again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit. 51 Suddenly, the curtain of the sanctuary was split in two from top to bottom; the earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs were also opened and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 And they came out of the tombs after His resurrection, entered the holy city, and appeared to many.

Continued on second OP

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I am sorry but i totally disagree, don't have time now but ill be back to discuss, will you again implore me to ignore you? and go away? what you write again if a completely confused mess of interpretation that are not biblical. What version of the bible do you use?

 

[Grip Docility]

I am sorry but i totally disagree,

You have every right to disagree. I'm not God and I perpetually acknowledge that my only Pride is Jesus. My theology is always spoken to be opinion.

don't have time now but ill be back to discuss,

Sounds fair

will you again implore me to ignore you?

There was a point in discussion that I quoted a verse and I was imploring you to not change it's intended use. You respected this and I appreciated your kindness. I was imploring you not to address the passage because it was a very critical point of scripture that shouldn't be tampered with.

and go away?

I knew that we didn't see eye to eye on the topic and I left you be. That previous discussion and discontinuing back and forth was my way of respecting your personal convictions. You were kind on the matter.

what you write again if a completely confused mess of interpretation that are not biblical. What version of the bible do you use?

Your words appear to lack compassion and kindness, here. You are welcome to share your opinion. If you desire discussion that is kind and doesn't cease on this matter, I can tell you that I will be starting with some of the key verses that I have set forward in the OP and asking how your theological view reconciles them.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

You have every right to disagree. I'm not God and I perpetually acknowledge that my only Pride is Jesus. My theology is always spoken to be opinion.

Sounds fair

There was a point in discussion that I quoted a verse and I was imploring you to not change it's intended use. You respected this and I appreciated your kindness. I was imploring you not to address the passage because it was a very critical point of scripture that shouldn't be tampered with.

I knew that we didn't see eye to eye on the topic and I left you be. That previous discussion and discontinuing back and forth was my way of respecting your personal convictions. You were kind on the matter.

Your words appear to lack compassion and kindness, here. You are welcome to share your opinion. If you desire discussion that is kind and doesn't cease on this matter, I can tell you that I will be starting with some of the key verses that I have set forward in the OP and asking how your theological view reconciles them.

I am not your enemy far from it, i just w ant to help if i can, i would never discuss a subject i do not know, but feel the right thing to to is to correct a mistake when i see one. I do not have a bias on scripture i am not part of any denomination, all i understand is from scripture And this is what i write about, subjects i have been given understanding by the lord. Get back to you within a few days. Knoe that i do not intend to argue, also i like to tease a bit like i did..... please do not be offended.

Be blessed.

 

[Grip Docility]

I am not your enemy far from it, i just w ant to help if i can, i would never discuss a subject i do not know, but feel the right thing to to is to correct a mistake when i see one. I do not have a bias on scripture i am not part of any denomination, all i understand is from scripture And this is what i write about, subjects i have been given understanding by the lord. Get back to you within a few days. Knoe that i do not intend to argue, also i like to tease a bit like i did..... please do not be offended.

Be blessed.

I enjoy discussing differing views. I in no way desire to change yours and welcome a good scriptural back and forth. Thank you for further defining your words intentions. I appreciate this. By all means, dive in. You already know 40% of my key verses that I will be bringing forward.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I enjoy discussing differing views. I in no way desire to change yours and welcome a good scriptural back and forth. Thank you for further defining your words intentions. I appreciate this. By all means, dive in. You already know 40% of my key verses that I will be bringing forward.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

Have you written part 2 of the OP? I am looking forward to read it.

Blessings.

 

[Grip Docility]

Have you written part 2 of the OP? I am looking forward to read it.

Blessings.

The First one Started with Jesus Christ and is NOW, (The Second Resurrection) is a FUTURE SIFTING

2nd Resurrection; Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, the Adversary will be set free from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for the battle. Their number is countless as the sand on the seashore; 9...

www.christianforums.com

No replies yet and it's been up a while! It needs some iron to iron! Thank you for asking!

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Sorry if i am a bit slow, it is a busy time for me now and to analyses and find a proper reply based on scripture is not that easy in this case I am still pondering but will certainly reply.

Blessings.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Grip, I will reply to your post in sequence from items I see as problematic, your OP is complex and long, I see no other way of doing this. The first item I see is;

""Paul reveals that this Holy Spirit is the VERY Holy Ghost of Jesus Christ!""

you quoted from;

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.​

​

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”​

It is well known that there is only One Holy Spirit and it is From God. Jesus received the Holy Spirit of God on baptism;
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens
were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Here is an excerpt of John Gill's commentary for Rom 8:9;

"now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. By "the Spirit of Christ", is not meant the human soul of Christ; nor his divine nature; nor his Gospel, which is the Spirit that gives life; but the Holy Ghost, the third person in the Trinity, the same which is called the Spirit before; and proves Christ to be God, he proceeds from him as from the Father, is sent by him, and with which Christ's human nature was fitted and filled." ​

I will continue tomorrow

Blessings,

 

[Grip Docility]

Grip, I will reply to your post in sequence from items I see as problematic, your OP is complex and long, I see no other way of doing this. The first item I see is;

Fair enough. Keep in mind, when I say 40% of what I draw from is present here, I mean that there is 60% or more within scripture per each verse that I am drawing from. As you pointed out, the OP is long and complex. I hit quick points to specify matters, but I assure you, I don't draw conclusions from one verse. I have far more on this very topic than I am about to share here. I could Fill 6 or 7 posts with support directly from scripture on this matter, but realize that people's time is limited. I use book to book, passage to passage study strategies. I frequently read and re read entire books of scripture to settle on specific contexts. I do this because manmade or woman made, extra biblical doctrines can only be washed away by such measures.

""Paul reveals that this Holy Spirit is the VERY Holy Ghost of Jesus Christ!""

This is no small item. I will expound, but Romans 8:9 is not a stand alone verse. The entire context of Romans 8 repeats this matter over and over.

1 Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

Here in 1 Peter 1 we find that the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ was the very Holy Spirit of Prophecy that guided the Prophets of the OT. We know this is sound doctrine because of the mention of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.​

Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He changed into their enemy, And He fought against them.​

​

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Notice that this Spirit is associated with "by Him we cry, "Abba, Father"?

Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”​

you quoted from;

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.​

​

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”​

It is well known that there is only One Holy Spirit and it is From God. Jesus received the Holy Spirit of God on baptism;
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens
were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Here is an excerpt of John Gill's commentary for Rom 8:9;

"now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. By "the Spirit of Christ", is not meant the human soul of Christ; nor his divine nature; nor his Gospel, which is the Spirit that gives life; but the Holy Ghost, the third person in the Trinity, the same which is called the Spirit before; and proves Christ to be God, he proceeds from him as from the Father, is sent by him, and with which Christ's human nature was fitted and filled."​

I disagree with this internet search provided writeup. I don't use commentary like "Gill" when I study. I use scripture as scriptures commentary, alone. 1 John 2:27, as well. I do use the quick internet search writeups, when they expound on historical matters, but I disagree with this synopsis that goes too far as to use an extrabiblical commentary to suggest a scriptural understanding. When Jesus ascended back on High (To Heaven), The experience within his very Soul (The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ) became available to all humanity. He had to ascend on High to provide the initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit "Pentecost". As for the Holy Spirit of Christ being the same Holy Spirit within the Father, this is spoken of, by Jesus, Himself.

The Holy Spirit of God dwells within us. God is omni present within humanity, as we are discussing this, within MANY human souls, as He has been since Pentecost. I am fine with you sharing a different opinion from mine, which I always declare as myself sharing opinions, but this is one of the most important matters in Scripture.

It is only "Unitarians and Tri-Theists, with the possibility of people who are mostly Trinitarian, yet adopt Nestorianism" who over divide the Triunity of God is such a way. This concept reduces the Holy Spirit to no more than some type of "Active Force" within humanity that is not described as the Soul of God. This seems like a small matter, but it is a 100 Lb sack of nails in a 1Lb sack that has enormous ability to damage the Power of the Gospel, when studied out, carfully.

I will continue tomorrow

Blessings,

Question…

Are you disagreeing that the Holy Spirit is the very Holy Spirit of Christ?

Did Not Jesus say, “I am in the Father and the Father is in me?” John 14:11

Also, didn’t not Jesus further say that He and His Father would live within believers? John 14:23

You are aware that when Christ ascended on High, that something changed? Hebrews 4:15

Does Philippians 1:19 need to be cited? Philippians 1:19 for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.

Here is Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

The word Heart in this verse in Koine Greek is "2588. kardia" which is also known as "The seat of life". It is a reference to our Soul. The word Spirit in this verse is Pneuma (Which again binds to "Ghost" or "Soul".)​

​

Paul, again, says "THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON". This is one of the most sacred teachings of Scripture. I respect your counter position, but I want to make this clear. I'm not ceasing to believe per scripture that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. It is why people say; "Ask Jesus into your heart" to people in witness. It is literal.

Paul's full context is this;

Philippians 1:19 for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. 20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Fair enough. Keep in mind, when I say 40% of what I draw from is present here, I mean that there is 60% or more within scripture per each verse that I am drawing from. As you pointed out, the OP is long and complex. I hit quick points to specify matters, but I assure you, I don't draw conclusions from one verse. I have far more on this very topic than I am about to share here. I could Fill 6 or 7 posts with support directly from scripture on this matter, but realize that people's time is limited. I use book to book, passage to passage study strategies. I frequently read and re read entire books of scripture to settle on specific contexts. I do this because manmade or woman made, extra biblical doctrines can only be washed away by such measures.

This is no small item. I will expound, but Romans 8:9 is not a stand alone verse. The entire context of Romans 8 repeats this matter over and over.

1 Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

Here in 1 Peter 1 we find that the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ was the very Holy Spirit of Prophecy that guided the Prophets of the OT. We know this is sound doctrine because of the mention of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.​

Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He changed into their enemy, And He fought against them.​

​

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Notice that this Spirit is associated with "by Him we cry, "Abba, Father"?

Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”​

I disagree with this internet search provided writeup. I don't use commentary like "Gill" when I study. I use scripture as scriptures commentary, alone. 1 John 2:27, as well. I do use the quick internet search writeups, when they expound on historical matters, but I disagree with this synopsis that goes too far as to use an extrabiblical commentary to suggest a scriptural understanding. When Jesus ascended back on High (To Heaven), The experience within his very Soul (The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ) became available to all humanity. He had to ascend on High to provide the initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit "Pentecost". As for the Holy Spirit of Christ being the same Holy Spirit within the Father, this is spoken of, by Jesus, Himself.

The Holy Spirit of God dwells within us. God is omni present within humanity, as we are discussing this, within MANY human souls, as He has been since Pentecost. I am fine with you sharing a different opinion from mine, which I always declare as myself sharing opinions, but this is one of the most important matters in Scripture.

It is only "Unitarians and Tri-Theists, with the possibility of people who are mostly Trinitarian, yet adopt Nestorianism" who over divide the Triunity of God is such a way. This concept reduces the Holy Spirit to no more than some type of "Active Force" within humanity that is not described as the Soul of God. This seems like a small matter, but it is a 100 Lb sack of nails in a 1Lb sack that has enormous ability to damage the Power of the Gospel, when studied out, carfully.

Question…

Are you disagreeing that the Holy Spirit is the very Holy Spirit of Christ?

Did Not Jesus say, “I am in the Father and the Father is in me?” John 14:11

Also, didn’t not Jesus further say that He and His Father would live within believers? John 14:23

You are aware that when Christ ascended on High, that something changed? Hebrews 4:15

Does Philippians 1:19 need to be cited? Philippians 1:19 for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.

Here is Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

The word Heart in this verse in Koine Greek is "2588. kardia" which is also known as "The seat of life". It is a reference to our Soul. The word Spirit in this verse is Pneuma (Which again binds to "Ghost" or "Soul".)​

​

Paul, again, says "THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON". This is one of the most sacred teachings of Scripture. I respect your counter position, but I want to make this clear. I'm not ceasing to believe per scripture that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. It is why people say; "Ask Jesus into your heart" to people in witness. It is literal.

Paul's full context is this;

Philippians 1:19 for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. 20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.

I know what you are saying that Jesus and God are one, It cross my mind and figured you would mention it. However I am certain that the spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit of GOD simply because the description of Jesus baptism proves it, God our Holy father, Jesus the son of GOD who came in the Flesh and the HOLY SPIRIT are distinct. I am not an expert in languages but a closer look in 1 Peter 1 about the spirit or Christ is required on my part, to me in means with proper context ""in the spirit of Christ""

I also rarely use commentaries, I rely heavily on the Holy Spirit to guide me, Somethings I know from the Holy Spirit, some other things are not revealed to me. But know I only speak of things I know or I would not. I would never use a personal interpretation. I also agree about context it is most important, and it will come up later when we discuss further the O.P.

Last but important, Jesus said ;

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you , Jesus here means The Holy Spirit of God, Jesus never mentioned HIS spirit, this is utmost important as Jesus is the Primary source of this information and it cannot be disputed. But this you know already as you have written it. There seem to be a few peculiar ways to express the term "the Holy Spirit" in the Bible.

Blessings

 

[Grip Docility]

I know what you are saying that Jesus and God are one, It cross my mind and figured you would mention it. However I am certain that the spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit of GOD simply because the description of Jesus baptism proves it, God our Holy father, Jesus the son of GOD who came in the Flesh and the HOLY SPIRIT are distinct. I am not an expert in languages but a closer look in 1 Peter 1 about the spirit or Christ is required on my part, to me in means with proper context ""in the spirit of Christ""

Correct. Jesus (The Son) is the Physical Presence of God. The Father is the Infinite, Invisible Spiritual Being of God. The Holy Spirit is the very Ghost of God. (Holy Ghost)

The Physical Presence of God is not the very Invisible Spiritual Being of God. The Holy Spirit that Dwells within the Father and the Son is not the Physical Presence of God or the Invisible Spiritual Being of God.

The Holy Spirit of Christ is the very presence of God within us. God's name is now the Name above ALL names. We say Jesus Christ, to the Glory of the Father. Glory is a reference to the very Shakina Glory in the Holy of Holies. The Messenger of YHWH that comes in the Name of YHWH which is written within His very SOUL is what is referred to as the Theophany or Pre-Incarnate Christophany. He was that very Shakina Glory. He is the very Effulgence of the Father's Glory. (Hebrews 1)

The Spirit of Christ is the very presence of the very Holy Spirit that the Father and the Son share.

I also rarely use commentaries, I rely heavily on the Holy Spirit to guide me, Somethings I know from the Holy Spirit, some other things are not revealed to me.

I believe you. I will be honest, I checked this matter out and have verified that you don't seem to quote extra biblical locations that frequently.

But know I only speak of things I know or I would not. I would never use a personal interpretation. I also agree about context it is most important, and it will come up later when we discuss further the O.P.

I'm looking forward to it. Keep in mind, God says many things with one sentence. He speaks in direct context of time, beyond time and frequently of Spiritual things that He is revealing, all in one sentence. It may be possible that the verses you will refer to have multiple purposes in speech, that support both of our perspectives, directly. I suspect I know which one's to expect.

Last but important, Jesus said ;

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you , Jesus here means The Holy Spirit of God, Jesus never mentioned HIS spirit, this is utmost important as Jesus is the Primary source of this information and it cannot be disputed. But this you know already as you have written it. There seem to be a few peculiar ways to express the term "the Holy Spirit" in the Bible.

Jesus DID directly mention HIS SPIRIT.

Matthew 12:22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

... 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

By the Pharisees saying that Jesus drove out Demons by the Spirit of Satan (Beelzebul - The god of flies, dung aka DEATH), they were calling the Spirit within Him (The Son / Jesus / Yeshua), Satan/The Devil/The Dragon. That was a big no no. Jesus reveals that the HOLY SPIRIT is the Spirit inside of Him. He then expresses that the Pharisees Blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It was a bad day for them.​

Jesus never outright said He was God. He Spiritually eludes to things. (Before Abraham, I AM) etc etc​

Philip, why do you say; "Show us the Father". Have I not been with you all this time? If you have "SEEN" Me, you have "SEEN" the Father. Do you not know that "I" am IN the Father as the Father is IN Me?

Yet, no one has seen the Father, per John 1. The SON, Reveals the Father. Ponder on this, cross ref it. It's profound. There are most definitely 3, yet these Three are utterly ONE. Yet This ONE is THREE.

Blessings

Blessings and gratitude.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Correct. Jesus (The Son) is the Physical Presence of God. The Father is the Infinite, Invisible Spiritual Being of God. The Holy Spirit is the very Ghost of God. (Holy Ghost)

The Physical Presence of God is not the very Invisible Spiritual Being of God. The Holy Spirit that Dwells within the Father and the Son is not the Physical Presence of God or the Invisible Spiritual Being of God.

The Holy Spirit of Christ is the very presence of God within us. God's name is now the Name above ALL names. We say Jesus Christ, to the Glory of the Father. Glory is a reference to the very Shakina Glory in the Holy of Holies. The Messenger of YHWH that comes in the Name of YHWH which is written within His very SOUL is what is referred to as the Theophany or Pre-Incarnate Christophany. He was that very Shakina Glory. He is the very Effulgence of the Father's Glory. (Hebrews 1)

The Spirit of Christ is the very presence of the very Holy Spirit that the Father and the Son share.

I believe you. I will be honest, I checked this matter out and have verified that you don't seem to quote extra biblical locations that frequently.

I'm looking forward to it. Keep in mind, God says many things with one sentence. He speaks in direct context of time, beyond time and frequently of Spiritual things that He is revealing, all in one sentence. It may be possible that the verses you will refer to have multiple purposes in speech, that support both of our perspectives, directly. I suspect I know which one's to expect.

Jesus DID directly mention HIS SPIRIT.

Matthew 12:22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

... 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

By the Pharisees saying that Jesus drove out Demons by the Spirit of Satan (Beelzebul - The god of flies, dung aka DEATH), they were calling the Spirit within Him (The Son / Jesus / Yeshua), Satan/The Devil/The Dragon. That was a big no no. Jesus reveals that the HOLY SPIRIT is the Spirit inside of Him. He then expresses that the Pharisees Blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It was a bad day for them.​

Jesus never outright said He was God. He Spiritually eludes to things. (Before Abraham, I AM) etc etc​

Jesus refereed Himself as the son of GOD, but Jesus did say he was one with God, in his extraordinary prayer to God in John 17, Jesus expresses many things, How he is One with God and more incredible but true, he expresses the desire that we may also be one with God!, this is the extraordinary potential of man that many have not understood, to me this one of the most important and revealing verse of the entire bible, and I quote from (KJV) ;
Jhn 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jhn 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Jhn 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
Jhn 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have receivedthem, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Jhn 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Jhn 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jhn 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Jhn 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Jhn 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Jhn 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Jhn 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Philip, why do you say; "Show us the Father". Have I not been with you all this time? If you have "SEEN" Me, you have "SEEN" the Father. Do you not know that "I" am IN the Father as the Father is IN Me?

Yet, no one has seen the Father, per John 1. The SON, Reveals the Father. Ponder on this, cross ref it. It's profound. There are most definitely 3, yet these Three are utterly ONE. Yet This ONE is THREE.

Blessings and gratitude.

I will stop there but continue with the O.P. in an another thread,

Blessings.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Jude specifically states that the devil and his angels are PRESENT Tense Bound with EVERLASTING chains for Judgment on the Great Day! Present tense (CHAINED). Peter says a day is AS A THOUSAND YEARS and JUDE says CHAINED present tense!



God incarnate Places all that BELIEVE in HIM in the CATAGORY of Those that Have Already crossed over from death to LIFE and WILL not be judged! This binds all who hear the Gospel and BELIEVE in Jesus to THE FIRST Resurrection!

How can we be sure?!?

In John 5:24, Jesus demonstrates that eternal life comes through hearing his words and trusting the One who sent him (God the Father). This verse highlights the core of Christian belief in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. Let's break down its implications:

Hearing and Trusting: Jesus states that whoever hears his words and trusts the Father who sent him "has eternal life." This means that believing in Jesus and his message is essential for receiving eternal life. But is only believing enough? did not Jesus demonstrated that works are also essential as in some parable but also in Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is,God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. read full chapter for conrext.
No Judgment: Jesus adds that such a person "will not come into judgment." This implies that those who have faith in Jesus are spared from the ultimate judgment and condemnation. having faitl also means obey his directives.

Now, Jesus asked for more, such as works and following commandments:

Works: While salvation is by faith alone, genuine faith naturally results in a changed life and good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Works are not the means of salvation but the evidence of a transformed heart.
Following Commandments: Jesus does teach about obeying his commandments (John 14:15). This obedience stems from love for God rather than legalistic adherence. Jesus summarized the commandments as loving God and loving others (Matthew 22:37-40).
Holistic Commitment: Jesus calls for a holistic commitment — a heart transformed by faith, resulting in obedience and good works. This includes repentance (turning away from sin) and living according to God's will. Yes Jesus core message was repentance from sin as defined by the Holy 10 Commandments written by the hand of GOD.
Therefore, while John 5:24 emphasizes faith as the primary requirement for eternal life, Jesus also calls for a life that reflects this faith through obedience and love. Works and obedience flow from a genuine faith and relationship with God rather than being prerequisites for salvation.

James said clearly that faith without works is dead.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Wait! When is Salvation unto Heaven?!?





No Man "Can Come to Me" (Where is Jesus, NOW?), Except the Father "DRAW" (Pull him to HEAVEN)... Jesus then says He will Raise "him" up at the "LAST DAY". Last day of what? He is referring to HIS last day on earth as a MORTAL MAN! He had already foreshadowed what He means in John 5:28,29

He prophesied of a coming hour where the FIRST Resurrection would begin. Those that do not Believe will be subjected to a final SIFTING!!!! This is the SECOND Resurrection and why do so many desire to bypass the FIRST one that is taking place, NOW?



Call me crazy, but I want to be part of the FIRST Resurrection which started right after Jesus Resurrected! I need Jesus! I don't desire to be "SIFTED"!

1st Resurrection;

You are not Crazy I want this too! but for the timing we will discuss further...Next I will reply to the core of the O.P in relation to the title of the O.P.

Blessings.

 

[Grip Docility]

Jesus refereed Himself as the son of GOD, but Jesus did say he was one with God, in his extraordinary prayer to God in John 17, Jesus expresses many things, How he is One with God and more incredible but true, he expresses the desire that we may also be one with God!, this is the extraordinary potential of man that many have not understood, to me this one of the most important and revealing verse of the entire bible, and I quote from (KJV) ;
Jhn 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jhn 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Jhn 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
Jhn 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have receivedthem, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Jhn 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Jhn 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jhn 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Jhn 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Jhn 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Jhn 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Jhn 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.


I will stop there but continue with the O.P. in an another thread,

Blessings.

I'm shortening this response. I am now realizing that you are enjoying seeing how these verses work out from your perspective. I appreciate and respect this.

 

[Grip Docility]

In John 5:24, Jesus demonstrates that eternal life comes through hearing his words and trusting the One who sent him (God the Father). This verse highlights the core of Christian belief in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. Let's break down its implications:

Hearing and Trusting: Jesus states that whoever hears his words and trusts the Father who sent him "has eternal life." This means that believing in Jesus and his message is essential for receiving eternal life. But is only believing enough? did not Jesus demonstrated that works are also essential as in some parable but also in Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is,God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. read full chapter for conrext.
No Judgment: Jesus adds that such a person "will not come into judgment." This implies that those who have faith in Jesus are spared from the ultimate judgment and condemnation. having faitl also means obey his directives.

Now, Jesus asked for more, such as works and following commandments:

Works: While salvation is by faith alone, genuine faith naturally results in a changed life and good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Works are not the means of salvation but the evidence of a transformed heart.
Following Commandments: Jesus does teach about obeying his commandments (John 14:15). This obedience stems from love for God rather than legalistic adherence. Jesus summarized the commandments as loving God and loving others (Matthew 22:37-40).
Holistic Commitment: Jesus calls for a holistic commitment — a heart transformed by faith, resulting in obedience and good works. This includes repentance (turning away from sin) and living according to God's will. Yes Jesus core message was repentance from sin as defined by the Holy 10 Commandments written by the hand of GOD.
Therefore, while John 5:24 emphasizes faith as the primary requirement for eternal life, Jesus also calls for a life that reflects this faith through obedience and love. Works and obedience flow from a genuine faith and relationship with God rather than being prerequisites for salvation.

I'm not certain, but I think that the Law of 10 may be in discussion here. Am I misreading this? I do not read the Law of 10 in to matters like this, due to my perspective.

James said clearly that faith without works is dead.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

I would say that I don't understand what you are saying, but I believe we are diverging here. This is Okay, but I want to be clear that the divergence is further specified by the partial quote of James, which I, personally believe has much more to say than the usage of only James 2:14 to James 2:20.

James is one of the most important books in scripture and it doesn't read as many think it reads, in my opinion. James 2 is a book that would heal the world if it were read as I personally believe that it reads, in my opinion, though that sounds humorously puffed up. I frequently exegete Chapter 2 in totality because it binds to Galatians 2. I think this is again somehow referring to the 10 commandments on your part?

You are not Crazy I want this too! but for the timing we will discuss further...Next I will reply to the core of the O.P in relation to the title of the O.P.

Blessings.

Blessings! This is one of the hardest doctrines to sort out, for the record. It was the last doctrine that I opined on and took me years to consider. I respect you enormously for working through this. I will slow my responses down and reduce them to active listening to perhaps make it more easy for you to arrive at your own conclusion. Please forgive my verbose way of responding. I will reduce my scope of reply down to a sentence here and sentence there.

 

[Grip Docility]

In John 5:24, Jesus demonstrates that eternal life comes through hearing his words and trusting the One who sent him (God the Father). This verse highlights the core of Christian belief in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. Let's break down its implications:

Hearing and Trusting: Jesus states that whoever hears his words and trusts the Father who sent him "has eternal life." This means that believing in Jesus and his message is essential for receiving eternal life. But is only believing enough? did not Jesus demonstrated that works are also essential as in some parable but also in Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is,God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. read full chapter for conrext.
No Judgment: Jesus adds that such a person "will not come into judgment." This implies that those who have faith in Jesus are spared from the ultimate judgment and condemnation. having faitl also means obey his directives.

Now, Jesus asked for more, such as works and following commandments:

Works: While salvation is by faith alone, genuine faith naturally results in a changed life and good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Works are not the means of salvation but the evidence of a transformed heart.
Following Commandments: Jesus does teach about obeying his commandments (John 14:15). This obedience stems from love for God rather than legalistic adherence. Jesus summarized the commandments as loving God and loving others (Matthew 22:37-40).
Holistic Commitment: Jesus calls for a holistic commitment — a heart transformed by faith, resulting in obedience and good works. This includes repentance (turning away from sin) and living according to God's will. Yes Jesus core message was repentance from sin as defined by the Holy 10 Commandments written by the hand of GOD.
Therefore, while John 5:24 emphasizes faith as the primary requirement for eternal life, Jesus also calls for a life that reflects this faith through obedience and love. Works and obedience flow from a genuine faith and relationship with God rather than being prerequisites for salvation.

James said clearly that faith without works is dead.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

You are not Crazy I want this too! but for the timing we will discuss further...Next I will reply to the core of the O.P in relation to the title of the O.P.

Blessings.

Please don't stop sharing. I owe you an apology. I've been in heavier dialogue else where and my kindness in speech and ability to listen, apart from being in disagreement mode was impaired.

I want to simply facilitate your ability to articulate how you see this. I ask your forgiveness for responding so gruffly. I will only dialogue in response to the things you write in a way that ensures you are understood from your perspective, how you see it. On this discussion, I will do this.

Please forgive my long responses, earlier.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Please don't stop sharing. I owe you an apology. I've been in heavier dialogue else where and my kindness in speech and ability to listen, apart from being in disagreement mode was impaired.

I want to simply facilitate your ability to articulate how you see this. I ask your forgiveness for responding so gruffly. I will only dialogue in response to the things you write in a way that ensures you are understood from your perspective, how you see it. On this discussion, I will do this.

Please forgive my long responses, earlier.

No problem Grip I understand. Even if we may have different views ( but not so many) on certain topics as long as we follow Christ, all is good. I respect peoples views also but I will say what I know if asked.

Blessings and will continue tomorrow.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Hello Grip, sorry for the very late reply; I did condense what i found and kept it to a minimum for clarity and since you know scripture well.

The confusion between Jesus' resurrection and the "first resurrection" mentioned in Revelation can arise. Here are some verses that can help clarify the distinction:

Jesus's Resurrection as a Unique Event;

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.​

This verse shows the uniqueness of Jesus' resurrection as a definitive victory over death. miracles did accompany Jesus death and the first to resurrect as should be for us to believe all is from God. but His resurrection was a unique event different from his second coming and his reign for one thousand years.

First Resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6;

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

This passage in Revelation clearly distinguishes the "first resurrection" as an event that involves those who are blessed and holy, who reign with Christ for a thousand years in the future. It refers to a resurrection of believers who participate in Christ's millennial kingdom. This millennial kingdom starts just after Jesus second coming. The book of jeremiah explains the events in some details, we can discuss later.

These verses affirm that while Jesus resurrection is unique in defeating death and sin, the "first resurrection" mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 refers to a distinct event involving believers who will rise to reign with Christ during the millennium. I am hoping that it helps clarify that the "first resurrection" in Revelation is not synonymous with Jesus' resurrection but rather a future event involving believers.

I think we might see this event in the next few years ( 10 or 20 maybe) your hope is justified, I know bad things are coming our way at an exponential rate we are in the period of Jacob's trouble as the lord has made known to me for seven years now.

Tomorrow I will continue with the second resurrection

Blessings from your brother in Christ.

 

[Grip Docility]

Hello Grip, sorry for the very late reply; I did condense what i found and kept it to a minimum for clarity and since you know scripture well.

The confusion between Jesus' resurrection and the "first resurrection" mentioned in Revelation can arise. Here are some verses that can help clarify the distinction:

Jesus's Resurrection as a Unique Event;

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.​

This verse shows the uniqueness of Jesus' resurrection as a definitive victory over death. miracles did accompany Jesus death and the first to resurrect as should be for us to believe all is from God. but His resurrection was a unique event different from his second coming and his reign for one thousand years.

First Resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6;

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

This passage in Revelation clearly distinguishes the "first resurrection" as an event that involves those who are blessed and holy, who reign with Christ for a thousand years in the future. It refers to a resurrection of believers who participate in Christ's millennial kingdom. This millennial kingdom starts just after Jesus second coming. The book of jeremiah explains the events in some details, we can discuss later.

These verses affirm that while Jesus resurrection is unique in defeating death and sin, the "first resurrection" mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 refers to a distinct event involving believers who will rise to reign with Christ during the millennium. I am hoping that it helps clarify that the "first resurrection" in Revelation is not synonymous with Jesus' resurrection but rather a future event involving believers.

I think we might see this event in the next few years ( 10 or 20 maybe) your hope is justified, I know bad things are coming our way at an exponential rate we are in the period of Jacob's trouble as the lord has made known to me for seven years now.

Tomorrow I will continue with the second resurrection

Blessings from your brother in Christ.

I really appreciate your explanation.

I am not A-mill off the shelf theology, but my understanding presses me into an A-mill type stance.

You, my wonderful Sibling in Jesus are Pre-Mill.