Exodus 31:17 "in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth"

[tampasteve]

How could a virgin conceive, according to science?

It is a miracle and a foundational belief that Jesus: the Only-Begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; True God of True God;Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father by whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from Heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,and became man.

Science of the incarnation and the discussion of the passages at hand are not related.

 

[Psalm 27]

It is a miracle and a foundational belief that Jesus: the Only-Begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; True God of True God;Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father by whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from Heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,and became man.

Science of the incarnation and the discussion of the passages at hand are not related.

Yes, a miracle. I was just highlighting that science can't explain everything. Much like the six day creation

 

[tampasteve]

Yes, a miracle. I was just highlighting that science can't explain everything. Much like the six day creation

Of course science can't explain everything, but that does not mean that it can't explain a lot of things, especially observable and testable matters in Earth science. My views on Genesis work with science, so I am not really concerned as there is not a disagreement in my theology and the observable world.

 

[Psalm 27]

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (Exod. 20)

 

[Platte]

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (Exod. 20)

I'm not sure God could be any clearer.

 

[Diamond72]

'm not sure God could be any clearer.

GAP makes this very clear. What God did in the beginning is not what He did in six days. I was a carpenter. I would build a house or a pole barn or whatever. But I did not grown the trees. I used the material that they delivered on a truck. We have a developer here that actually builds a lot of the house in the factory. But they still have to build the house on location.

 

[Psalm 27]

I'm not sure God could be any clearer.

Agreed.
If Christians don't accept the Genesis account of creation, they don't accept the fourth commandment Either...

 

[Platte]

GAP makes this very clear. What God did in the beginning is not what He did in six days. I was a carpenter. I would build a house or a pole barn or whatever. But I did not grown the trees. I used the material that they delivered on a truck. We have a developer here that actually builds a lot of the house in the factory. But they still have to build the house on location.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

 

[Ace777]

Of course science can't explain everything, but that does not mean that it can't explain a lot of things,

They do not have to explain anything. They gather the data and the evidence and we can decide for ourselves. We do not have to go along with their explanation.

 

[Ace777]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

What do you feel is the connection between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2?

 

[David Lamb]

GAP makes this very clear. What God did in the beginning is not what He did in six days. I was a carpenter. I would build a house or a pole barn or whatever. But I did not grown the trees. I used the material that they delivered on a truck. We have a developer here that actually builds a lot of the house in the factory. But they still have to build the house on location.

There is a huge difference between your work as a carpenter, and God's work of creation. No mere human can make something out of nothing, so of course a blacksmith needs metals, a carpenter needs wood, and so on. God is almighty, and did not need to use pre-existent material, but merely issued a command:

“1 ¶ Praise the LORD! Praise the LORD from the heavens; Praise Him in the heights! 2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His hosts! 3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light! 4 Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, And you waters above the heavens! 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD, For He commanded and they were created. 6 He also established them forever and ever; He made a decree which shall not pass away.” (Ps 148:1-6 NKJV)

What is said there about angels, sun, moon, stars, etc. applies to all creation. In Genesis, we read the words "and God said, 'Let there be......and there was...." about everything He created.

 

[Platte]

What do you feel is the connection between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2?

Genesis 1 verse 1 thru 5 is simply the narrative of what God did on the first day. Nothing confusing about it - not sure why there would be any debate….and yes a 24 hour day. (About 6000 years ago).

 

[Ace777]

not sure why there would be any debate

There is debate because of science. Mostly Christian Science. OEC and TE is just as valid as YEC.

 

[Ace777]

There is a huge difference between your work as a carpenter, and God's work of creation. No mere human can make something out of nothing,

That is NOT what Creation (bara') means. Nothing does not exist anywhere in the known universe. You can not get something from nothing because nothing does not exist.

bara': choose
Original Word: בָּרָא
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: bara'
Phonetic Spelling: (baw-raw')
Definition: to shape, create
Brown-Driver-Briggs
I. בָּרָא53 verb shape, create (compare Arabic probably loan-word, form, fashion by cutting, shape out, pare a reed for writing, a stick for an arrow, create; Phoenician הברא CISi. 347 incisor, a trade involving cutting; Assyrian barû, make, create, COTGloss & Hpt KAT2Gloss 1 but dubious; Sabean ברא found, build, DHMZMG 1883, 413, synonym בנה; BaZA. 1888, 58, compare Assyrian banû, create, beget, with change of liquid; Aramaic בְּרָא, create)

 

[Ted-01]

That is NOT what Creation (bara') means. Nothing does not exist anywhere in the known universe. You can not get something from nothing because nothing does not exist.

bara': choose
Original Word: בָּרָא
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: bara'
Phonetic Spelling: (baw-raw')
Definition: to shape, create
Brown-Driver-Briggs
I. בָּרָא53 verb shape, create (compare Arabic probably loan-word, form, fashion by cutting, shape out, pare a reed for writing, a stick for an arrow, create; Phoenician הברא CISi. 347 incisor, a trade involving cutting; Assyrian barû, make, create, COTGloss & Hpt KAT2Gloss 1 but dubious; Sabean ברא found, build, DHMZMG 1883, 413, synonym בנה; BaZA. 1888, 58, compare Assyrian banû, create, beget, with change of liquid; Aramaic בְּרָא, create)

Are you saying here that God cannot do what we humans cannot do?

I mean, it seems as if we accept that a word (bara), made by humans, as a thing that we must ascribe to God, then all the elements of a fully fermented wine must have been in those six jars of water at Cana... that's seems unlikely to me.

 

[trophy33]

then all the elements of a fully fermented wine must have been in those six jars of water at Cana... that's seems unlikely to me.

Interestingly, anything can be made from subatomic particles.

Have you thought about why Jesus wanted them to fill the jars with water, first? It was not a creation ex nihilo.

 

[Ted-01]

Interestingly, anything can be made from subatomic particles.

Have you thought about why Jesus wanted them to fill the jars with water, first? It was not a creation ex nihilo.

Hmm... and what have you (or anybody else) made with subatomic particles?
Are you suggesting that subatomic particles existed before God?

 

[trophy33]

Hmm... and what have you (or anybody else) made with subatomic particles?

Everything you use in daily life. Even though our technologies are not so fine to manipulate the subatomic particles directly in common life, whenever you for example burn a wood in a fireplace, you are changing one kind of matter to another (and producing a lot of heat and some light as a side effect).

Are you suggesting that subatomic particles existed before God?

Nope. I was reacting to the water-to-wine miracle, only.

 

[David Lamb]

That is NOT what Creation (bara') means. Nothing does not exist anywhere in the known universe. You can not get something from nothing because nothing does not exist.

bara': choose
Original Word: בָּרָא
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: bara'
Phonetic Spelling: (baw-raw')
Definition: to shape, create
Brown-Driver-Briggs
I. בָּרָא53 verb shape, create (compare Arabic probably loan-word, form, fashion by cutting, shape out, pare a reed for writing, a stick for an arrow, create; Phoenician הברא CISi. 347 incisor, a trade involving cutting; Assyrian barû, make, create, COTGloss & Hpt KAT2Gloss 1 but dubious; Sabean ברא found, build, DHMZMG 1883, 413, synonym בנה; BaZA. 1888, 58, compare Assyrian banû, create, beget, with change of liquid; Aramaic בְּרָא, create)

You seem to be saying that because we cannot now conceive of something being made out of nothing (because in our experience, "nothing" does not exist anywhere in the universe we know) that God there cannot have created ex nihilo. To think that way involves not believing what God Himself says in His Word. Genesis not only uses the word bara, it also says that God said, "Let there be....and there was...", as I said in my previous post. Human beings cannot say "Let there be..." and create something out of nothing, but God can, and did.

 

[Ace777]

You seem to be saying that because we cannot now conceive

I am saying you have no evidence for "nothing". In the beginning was something because you cannot begin with nothing. Mostly in the beginning was hydrogen, helium, and a small amount of lithium. They were the first three elements. The Universe (Creation) had to contract or shrink before it could expand. I personally do not believe that there was ever nothing. God told me in a dream that He will bring everything back together again.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe