SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors

[BCP1928]

Thats what we say. But somehow we are wrong for saying it. Funny how that works. It's rhe left that continues to try and tell.us that we can't say that. Yet here you are saying it. And you are upset at us? Makes no sense. You agree with us.

Now what do we do about the kids? Because it's rhe treatment of kids that this thread is about.

That's no fun, because too many people here agree that the kids have been handled badly by both sides.

 

[rturner76]

Lol, no one has said that. First we are blasted.for calling it a disorder now we are being blasted for not calling it a disorder. So which is it?

You might be blasted by some activist but you won't be blasted by the medical community. It goes to show there there is even more of a stigma against those with a mental disorder than there is against trans gender people. People will say anything to avoid a diagnosis of a mental dis-order. As a lay person, would you say someone living with a penis who believes they are a woman have dis-ordered thing on the subject?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think I don't understand them very much at all. But I lived and worked in Samoa for several years where four accepted genders are in play and interacted with them and observed how they functioned in the workplace and casual social situations.

Well those are gender roles (not necessarily identities) imposed upon babies at birth.

Unless you're advocating that we turn Mike into Mikaela after he's born...I don't see what it has to do with the discussion.

 

[rjs330]

I think I don't understand them very much at all. But I lived and worked in Samoa for several years where four accepted genders are in play and interacted with them and observed how they functioned in the workplace and casual social situations.

The Samoans don't have four genders. What they have are words that describe men who.act more like women and women who.act more like men. They don't define that men are women or the women are men. Just their behaviors. It's interesting that all these cultures seem to have typical gender roles. Why is that? And then there are those that don't conform to those roles. Hmmm.... just like here.

And just like we do, they say so what. So a man doesn't conform strictly to the role. Once again we find the left seems obsessed with defining roles and how men should act and women should act. Why is that?

 

[BCP1928]

Well those are gender roles (not necessarily identities) imposed upon babies at birth.

Unless you're advocating that we turn Mike into Mikaela after he's born...I don't see what it has to do with the discussion.

Well, you are right. We have gone off on a tangent about why being required to use preferred pronouns in the workplace is so burdensome. That is what the Samoa example relates to.

 

[rturner76]

Uh huh.

Not when it comes to medical treatment of gender dysphoria which you call "transgender."

It's just logic...it's not mine lol. Anyone is free to use it.

It's not the logic of the medical community, just your personal opinion.

We're discussing opinions? Not facts?

We are discussing medical opinions which are diagnosed and written as fact in the diagnosis criteria. You have your own criteria that has nothing to do with the medical community.

First of all, I never personally attacked you, I attacked your argument and the fact that you feel you need to post this clown meme tells me you are all out of ideas. The simple fact is you believe yourself rather than the national standard for diagnosis. Are you really that smart? That was a question not a personal attack. You must have nothing left to say in the way of knowing more about the roots of transgendersm that the National Institute of Health and the DSM-5 criteria for being diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

Do you really know more then the findings of the National Institute of Health? In fact, I have posted nothing but information gleaned from these organixations while you go on with your personal opinions derived by your best logic. Sorry dud, you have proven yourself you have zero clue about the national standards of proper healthcare are. Please feel free to make it up as you go, and I'll stick with the American Psychological Ascociation and the National Institute of Mental Health. What is your source? An activist website and your own brain. Seems you are not up to the task of proving your opinion

PEACE

 

[rjs330]

No, you take him at his word. He says, he believes he feels like a woman. I would take him at his word, that he believes he feels like a woman. I don't even have to believe that it is possible for him to feel like a woman to accept that he believes that he does. I only have to believe that he believes it, and that really does not take very much "faith."

No you take it on faith he is a woman. Otherwise you wouldn't support his entry I to women's spaces. Your faith is not in the fact that you believe he has those feelings. Your faith is that those feelings actually make him one.

But if you only saw him how did you know what he wanted you to believe?

I guess you'll just have to accept it on faith.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Not when it comes to medical treatment of gender dysphoria which you call "transgender."

I don't call gender dysphoria "transgender"....and neither does the medical community.

It's not the logic of the medical community, just your personal opinion.

You have no clue what the medical community believes. You have completely invented everything you believe on the topic.

Expert Q&A: Gender Dysphoria

Learn about gender dysphoria, including symptoms, risk factors, treatment options and answers to common questions.

www.psychiatry.org

Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and that distinction is important to keep in mind. Gender dysphoria and/or coming out as transgender can occur at any age.

Now....since "transgender" and "gender dysphoria" are not the same....why do you disagree with all the medical experts?

 

[BCP1928]

The Samoans don't have four genders. What they have are words that describe men who.act more like women and women who.act more like men.

Too bad we can't do that here. Then you wouldn't have to worry so much about pronouns.

They don't define that men are women or the women are men.

They don't have to. They have their own categories.

Just their behaviors. It's interesting that all these cultures seem to have typical gender roles. Why is that? And then there are those that don't conform to those roles. Hmmm.... just like here.

All cultures have typical gender roles. It's how the non-conforming are handled that is critical.

And just like we do, they say so what. So a man doesn't conform strictly to the role. Once again we find the left seems obsessed with defining roles and how men should act and women should act. Why is that?

Because of the pressure put on by the right. Didn't you learn anything from feminism?

 

[BCP1928]

No you take it on faith he is a woman. Otherwise you wouldn't support his entry I to women's spaces. Your faith is not in the fact that you believe he has those feelings. Your faith is that those feelings actually make him one.

I don't believe that and I don't have to, because I really don't care if he goes into "women's spaces" or not.

I guess you'll just have to accept it on faith.

No, I think you made it up. You don't know any more about what he wants you to believe than you know what I believe.

 

[Ana the Ist]

They don't have to. They have their own categories.

Do they?

 

[rturner76]

I don't call gender dysphoria "transgender"....and neither does the medical community.

You have multiple times. Do I really need to go back and read the last hundred posts to find it? And I have posted over and over that the medical community doesn't call it that. A person who has changed gender is a transgender person.

You have no clue what the medical community believes. You have completely invented everything you believe on the topic.

In the DSM-5, there has been a change in the diagnosis for transpeople of all ages from Gender Identity Disorder (GID) to Gender Dysphoria (GD), in part to better indicate the distress that transpeople may experience when their gender identity feels incongruent. The Workgroup for Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders, chaired by Kenneth J. Zucker, was employed by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) to update the DSM-5's GID diagnosis reflecting contemporary scientific knowledge. Additionally, in a pre-publication report to the APA, members of the Workgroup suggested that they would also be concerned with the destigmatization of transpeople while preserving a diagnosis that medical insurance companies would accept for issuing payments for transitioning treatments

Did I invent any of that? You can call yourself whatever you want and get plastic surgery, just don't expect insurance to pay for it unless you are diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria.

The DSM-5 and the Politics of Diagnosing Transpeople - PubMed

In the DSM-5, there has been a change in the diagnosis for transpeople of all ages from Gender Identity Disorder (GID) to Gender Dysphoria (GD), in part to better indicate the distress that transpeople may experience when their gender identity feels incongruent. The Workgroup for Sexual and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and that distinction is important to keep in mind. Gender dysphoria and/or coming out as transgender can occur at any age.

Now....since "transgender" and "gender dysphoria" are not the same....why do you disagree with all the medical experts?

Not all do (so they say) but they are paying cash for the treatment of a disorder that they don't have in that case. If you want treatment from a Doctor and want your insurance to pay for it, you need to be ready to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

So then why do YOU disagree with the medical community?

The new diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (GD) in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013) defines intersex, renamed "Disorders of Sex Development" (DSD), as a specifier of GD. With this formulation, the status of intersex departs from prior editions, especially from the DSM-IV texts that defined intersex as an exclusion criterion for Gender Identity Disorder. Conversely, GD--with or without a DSD--can apply in the same manner to DSD and non-DSD individuals; it subsumes the physical condition under the mental "disorder."

Classifying Intersex in DSM-5: Critical Reflections on Gender Dysphoria - PubMed

The new diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (GD) in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013) defines intersex, renamed "Disorders of Sex Development" (DSD), as a specifier of GD. With this formulation, the status of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Like I said, call yourself whatever you want and deny that you have a mental disorder. Just be ready to lay out cash for every pill and procedure. I've also said THAT before but you keep droning on about it has nothing to do with a medical condition. You never proved it's not medical. Have you seen a surgeon perform a non-medical surgery? You inly prove that medical disorders are now more stigmatized than transgenderism. It's like "call me a woman when I'm a man, and there is nothing disordered about my thinking." You are talking about a political diagnosis. I am talking about the actual medical diagnosis for this disorder.''It is politic to say "I don't have a mental disorder but I have a penis and I'm actually a woman." It's the epitome of disordered thinking.

I personally have depression disorder. I get intrusive thoughts about myself that are not true. That's why my insurance pays for my medication and my therapist. I can tell myself "I'm not depressed, that's nonsense" but by doing that, I would have no access to treatment for it. Do you finally get it?

And you'r little quick parent and family Q&A has no medical data. It only answers question that families ask who don't want to believe that either they or their child has a "mental disorder" but good luck when the family tries to get insurance to pay for their hormones.

 

[Ana the Ist]

In the DSM-5, there has been a change in the diagnosis for transpeople of all ages from Gender Identity Disorder (GID) to Gender Dysphoria (GD), in part to better indicate the distress that transpeople may experience when their gender identity feels incongruent.

"May" experience.

In other words....may not experience.

Do you understand that?

The new diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (GD) in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)

2013 is far too old. You're fishing.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You have multiple times. Do I really need to go back and read the last hundred posts to find it? And I have posted over and over that the medical community doesn't call it that. A person who has changed gender is a transgender person.


In the DSM-5, there has been a change in the diagnosis for transpeople of all ages from Gender Identity Disorder (GID) to Gender Dysphoria (GD), in part to better indicate the distress that transpeople may experience when their gender identity feels incongruent. The Workgroup for Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders, chaired by Kenneth J. Zucker, was employed by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) to update the DSM-5's GID diagnosis reflecting contemporary scientific knowledge. Additionally, in a pre-publication report to the APA, members of the Workgroup suggested that they would also be concerned with the destigmatization of transpeople while preserving a diagnosis that medical insurance companies would accept for issuing payments for transitioning treatments

Did I invent any of that? You can call yourself whatever you want and get plastic surgery, just don't expect insurance to pay for it unless you are diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria.

The DSM-5 and the Politics of Diagnosing Transpeople - PubMed

In the DSM-5, there has been a change in the diagnosis for transpeople of all ages from Gender Identity Disorder (GID) to Gender Dysphoria (GD), in part to better indicate the distress that transpeople may experience when their gender identity feels incongruent. The Workgroup for Sexual and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not all do (so they say) but they are paying cash for the treatment of a disorder that they don't have in that case. If you want treatment from a Doctor and want your insurance to pay for it, you need to be ready to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

So then why do YOU disagree with the medical community?

The new diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (GD) in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013) defines intersex, renamed "Disorders of Sex Development" (DSD), as a specifier of GD. With this formulation, the status of intersex departs from prior editions, especially from the DSM-IV texts that defined intersex as an exclusion criterion for Gender Identity Disorder. Conversely, GD--with or without a DSD--can apply in the same manner to DSD and non-DSD individuals; it subsumes the physical condition under the mental "disorder."

Classifying Intersex in DSM-5: Critical Reflections on Gender Dysphoria - PubMed

The new diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (GD) in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013) defines intersex, renamed "Disorders of Sex Development" (DSD), as a specifier of GD. With this formulation, the status of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Like I said, call yourself whatever you want and deny that you have a mental disorder. Just be ready to lay out cash for every pill and procedure. I've also said THAT before but you keep droning on about it has nothing to do with a medical condition. You never proved it's not medical. Have you seen a surgeon perform a non-medical surgery? You inly prove that medical disorders are now more stigmatized than transgenderism. It's like "call me a woman when I'm a man, and there is nothing disordered about my thinking." You are talking about a political diagnosis. I am talking about the actual medical diagnosis for this disorder.''It is politic to say "I don't have a mental disorder but I have a penis and I'm actually a woman." It's the epitome of disordered thinking.

I personally have depression disorder. I get intrusive thoughts about myself that are not true. That's why my insurance pays for my medication and my therapist. I can tell myself "I'm not depressed, that's nonsense" but by doing that, I would have no access to treatment for it. Do you finally get it?

And you'r little quick parent and family Q&A has no medical data. It only answers question that families ask who don't want to believe that either they or their child has a "mental disorder" but good luck when the family tries to get insurance to pay for their hormones.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

Learn about gender dysphoria, including symptoms, risk factors, treatment options and answers to common questions.

www.psychiatry.org

Here we go again....

• Gender dysphoria: A concept designated in the DSM-5-TR as clinically significant distress or impairment related to gender incongruence, which may include desire to change primary and/or secondary sex characteristics. Not all transgender or gender diverse people experience gender dysphoria.

What's that last part again?

Not all transgender or gender diverse people experience gender dysphoria.

Say it slowly so you can understand....

Not all transgender or gender diverse people experience gender dysphoria.

Get it?

 

[rturner76]

"May" experience.

In other words....may not experience.

Do you understand that?

I like your English gymnastics. Do you think they would say every single case is one thing and there can be nothing else? Of course not. You can't paint every person with the same brush but if you want your treatment paid for, you must get a diagnosis and a treatment plan. I have repeated this at least for or five times. Where is the disconnect in your understand. You have very good English so I expect you can understand what I am posting.

2013 is far too old. You're fishing.

Well, that's the latest version of the DSM. They don't often update it but it will probably happen soon. It still does not detract from the fact that this is the criteria used to diagnose mental disorders. They haven't changed anything about depression symptoms, addiction, anxiety, schizophrenia OR gender dysphoria. When there is significant information to change I'm sure they will. It doesn't make your feeble attempts to prove that it can be treated and covered by medical insurance without a diagnosis and treatment plan.

Just so I'm clear, what are you actually trying to prove here?

And just another FYI, it seems that you are the one pidgen holing people into one category (it's not a mental disorder but a character defect) and I'm the one trying to teach you if you want medical treatment payed by your insurance, you need a diagnosis in order for your insurance to pay for treatment of that diagnosis. Not that difficult of a concept to grasp but when you add in your personal opinion/interpretation, you tend to get lost.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I like your English gymnastics.

It's just English.

Well, that's the latest version of the DSM.

No the revised 2022 version is.

Just so I'm clear, what are you actually trying to prove here?

You keep insisting that transgender and gender dysphoria are the same....they aren't.

 

[rturner76]

You keep insisting that transgender and gender dysphoria are the same....they aren't.

Are you sure you are using your highly-developed English? If you go back you will remember I said it can be called different things but gender dysphoria is the diagnosis covered by medical insurance (if it includes a treatment plan. Are you reading what you see or interpreting what you see through the lens of your own bias?

No the revised 2022 version is.

I'm glad you told me that. I thought it would continue by number like the DMS1,2,3,4,5. It DOES now go by year and the diagnosis is still gender dysphoria. thanks for clearing that up

You keep insisting that transgender and gender dysphoria are the same....they aren't.

I would appreciate it if you could quote where I said that. I think I said something more like you can diagnose yourself and get plastic surgery if you can afford it but if you want your insurance to pay for it, you need a diagnosis and a treatment plan and the only valid diagnosis for transgender disorders is.....wait what? Gender Dysphoria. I think you should give up now, you are just embarrassing yourself with your lack of reading comprehension and inability to distinguish between a medical condition that is paid for by insurance and a self-diagnosis in which one must pay cash to obtain treatment.

 

[rturner76]

It's just English.

It's really interesting to try to use words to prove your point when you only prove your lack of insight into the medical insurance system. You have used insurance, right? I'm sure you have with you're wife's ordeal (God bless her and keep her safe). You get a diagnosis, then a treatment plan, that's when insurance lets you know what they will cover. It's the same for any malady whether physical or psychological

 

[Ana the Ist]

Are you sure you are using your highly-developed English? If you go back you will remember I said it can be called different things but gender dysphoria is the diagnosis covered by medical insurance (if it includes a treatment plan.

And I pointed out gender dysphoria isn't required for treatment.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's really interesting to try to use words to prove your point when you only prove your lack of insight into the medical insurance system. You have used insurance, right?

Of course.