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Expert says the Chinese military could seize Taiwan’s government buildings in under an hour

Kokavkrystallos

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Expert says the Chinese military could seize Taiwan’s government buildings in under an hour​

Images of Chinese warships seen off the coast of Taiwan served as a dire warning of a potential invasion that could disrupt the technology supply chain, plunge the world into an economic catastrophe, and start a hot war between the U.S. and China. NBC News’ Ken Dilanian speaks with a geopolitics expert who believes an actual invasion could be over before the U.S. even has a chance to respond.

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AlexB23

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Expert says the Chinese military could seize Taiwan’s government buildings in under an hour​

Images of Chinese warships seen off the coast of Taiwan served as a dire warning of a potential invasion that could disrupt the technology supply chain, plunge the world into an economic catastrophe, and start a hot war between the U.S. and China. NBC News’ Ken Dilanian speaks with a geopolitics expert who believes an actual invasion could be over before the U.S. even has a chance to respond.

Video:


Well, remind me at 7:00 PM my time if WW3 starts and the buildings are taken over. It is 6:10 PM right now. :)

I'm being facetious, if my sarcasm did not show. But yes, China needs to back down.
 
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Kokavkrystallos

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Well, remind me at 7:00 PM my time if WW3 starts and the buildings are taken over. It is 6:10 PM right now. :)

I'm being facetious, if my sarcasm did not show. But yes, China needs to back down.


All this talk of 2027. Would not it be more sensible to do it before 2025 in case Trump is elected? That also gives Taiwan time to strengthen its military, and the U.S. to send more, by waiting those 2 - 2 1/2 years.

And there's all kinds of crazy scenarios that could play out. North Korea could strike South Korea simultaneously within minutes of the beginning of a Chinese invasion. Iran could launch a large scale attack on Israel. Russia , well, just keeps doing what she is doing. The U.S. would be strained with 3 or 4 fronts.

Sometimes I wonder if spies from everywhere watch topics like this. They might say, "yeah, that's a good idea." But the Americans also say "yeah, good idea, so we better make contingency plans in case it does go down like that."
 
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Gene2memE

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China would need sufficient naval logistics assets to both launch and sustain any invasion of Taiwan. It currently lacks that sealift capacity, which means that it does not have the capability at present to invade Taiwan.

It is building capacity up - but much more slowly than it was in the 2000-2015 period. At the moment it is estimated that China could only sustain an ashore force of about 15,000 to 18,000 troops (roughly four full brigades with some support elements). More Type 7X amphibious ships are being built, but China is concentrating on the big Type 75s and Type 74s - which are more command/support types rather than landing/assault types.

Estimates about their sealift capacity do vary considerably though, depending on assumptions about civilian roll-on, roll-off fleet use and expected losses. Some estimates are as low as 10,000 troops, while other are in the 50,000 plus range.

There are other options - rapid capture of airports, or massive use of civilian sealift assets to support an invasion. But most of those are wishcasting/doom-mongering.

Plus, all of this seems to assume that the Taiwanese are doing zip to fight back. If Russian losses in the Black Sea have shown us anything, it's that naval vessels are hideously vulnerable to low observable missiles and drones.

Given that Taiwan has a stock of ~5000 to 6000 air to sea, sea to sea and land to sea missiles at present (and plans to add 1,000 missiles to that stock this year alone), I don't see a theoretical Chinese invasion force staying intact for long.



Putting ~30,000 troops on a hostile shore is not that difficult. What's difficult is keeping your navy intact so that those 30,000 troops have boots, bullets and blood, along with the million other things modern combat operations require. And then putting follow-on waves in to support those troops.
 
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AlexB23

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All this talk of 2027. Would not it be more sensible to do it before 2025 in case Trump is elected? That also gives Taiwan time to strengthen its military, and the U.S. to send more, by waiting those 2 - 2 1/2 years.

And there's all kinds of crazy scenarios that could play out. North Korea could strike South Korea simultaneously within minutes of the beginning of a Chinese invasion. Iran could launch a large scale attack on Israel. Russia , well, just keeps doing what she is doing. The U.S. would be strained with 3 or 4 fronts.

Sometimes I wonder if spies from everywhere watch topics like this. They might say, "yeah, that's a good idea." But the Americans also say "yeah, good idea, so we better make contingency plans in case it does go down like that."
I am not sure. Am not a leader of a dictatorship. But yes, China and Russia are probably watching forums and news websites.
 
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Kokavkrystallos

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I am not sure. Am not a leader of a dictatorship. But yes, China and Russia are probably watching forums and news websites.
I know certain American agencies use keywords to monitor everything online, and if it's significant they will look at it, though most is analyzed by their computers, which are way more advanced than the AI that's available to the general populace.
 
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AlexB23

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I know certain American agencies use keywords to monitor everything online, and if it's significant they will look at it, though most is analyzed by their computers, which are way more advanced than the AI that's available to the general populace.
Agreed. Who knows. If ChatGPT became advanced in 2022-2023, who knows what the government had half a decade prior.
 
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AlexB23

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I have a question I've never asked. Why does big, bad China lust so much for itty bitty Taiwan? Resources? Technology?
Technology mainly. TSMC, a chip manufacturer, is located there. Goes to show how greedy Chinese officials are.

Quote from the BBC: "Taiwan's economy is another factor. Much of the world's electronics - from phones to electric cars - are powered by computer chips made in Taiwan. By one measure, a single Taiwanese company - the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company or TSMC - has over half of the world's market."

Source: China and Taiwan: A really simple guide
 
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RDKirk

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I know certain American agencies use keywords to monitor everything online, and if it's significant they will look at it, though most is analyzed by their computers, which are way more advanced than the AI that's available to the general populace.
There is very little reliance on keywords. Messages that have real intelligence value will not contain such keywords. But there are a host of other nonverbal ways messages with intelligence value can be determined, and yes, such "AI" analysis has been available since the 80s.
 
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RDKirk

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Technology mainly. TSMC, a chip manufacturer, is located there. Goes to show how greedy Chinese officials are.

Quote from the BBC: "Taiwan's economy is another factor. Much of the world's electronics - from phones to electric cars - are powered by computer chips made in Taiwan. By one measure, a single Taiwanese company - the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company or TSMC - has over half of the world's market."

Source: China and Taiwan: A really simple guide
Nah. Taiwan has been an issue since the end of WWII when the Chiang took refuge there from Mao, back when "Made in Taiwan" was a matter of ridicule.
 
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AlexB23

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Nah. Taiwan has been an issue since the end of WWII when the Chiang took refuge there from Mao, back when "Made in Taiwan" was a matter of ridicule.
Both China and Taiwan have been issues to each other. Technology has exacerbated this issue.
 
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China has a great fondness for stability. Invading Taiwan for the tech would gain them nothing, as they would lose at least two of their best trading partners and be hit with huge sanctions, at the very least. If things go badly, invasion could result in a disastrous war.

That doesn't mean that invasion is off the table, though. China is very jealous of the territory they consider to be theirs. China will invade if Taiwan declares independence, and there's always the danger that Taiwan will do so. And so China will continue to remain very ready for invasion.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'll just say that stupid thing nobody else is likely to say....

Remember back in 2016 when the media made fun of Trump for accepting a phone call from Taiwan's PM or president or whatever....because officially we have a "1 China policy" that recognizes Taiwan as part of China?

If you can recall this....

Why would we prevent China from doing anything with Taiwan as that would sort of be like China preventing us from doing something with California?

Or did the 1 China policy change? Or was it always just a lie we told China?

For anyone unfamiliar....

 
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Richard T

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All this talk of 2027. Would not it be more sensible to do it before 2025 in case Trump is elected? That also gives Taiwan time to strengthen its military, and the U.S. to send more, by waiting those 2 - 2 1/2 years.

And there's all kinds of crazy scenarios that could play out. North Korea could strike South Korea simultaneously within minutes of the beginning of a Chinese invasion. Iran could launch a large scale attack on Israel. Russia , well, just keeps doing what she is doing. The U.S. would be strained with 3 or 4 fronts.

Sometimes I wonder if spies from everywhere watch topics like this. They might say, "yeah, that's a good idea." But the Americans also say "yeah, good idea, so we better make contingency plans in case it does go down like that."
Each country is going to have their best people that contemplate all the possible scenarios and the probabilities of each response. They will come up strategies based on the goals and defenses of their nations and also for ways to work together with allies. Of course, not every ally is an equal partner. We should assume China is the leader and the real goal for them is to occupy Taiwan, at least first. If that is the case, what would you do? Here is my amateur assessment.

Stir up the Middle East to cause the USA to commit resources there? Then maybe N.Korea and commits simultaneously with a Chinese invasion? Even better perhaps dupe N.Korea to going to some sort of limited nuclear strike. Blame terrorists, or a rogue general while the Chinese and Russian denounce nuclear escalation so the USA won't nuke back. This way N.Korea can take the heat while China comes in and cleans up on Taiwan. In this case, cyber and space warfare will begin, the sleeper agents will destroy certain domestic USA targets, and all of a sudden the USA response militarily will not be enough cover. Americans seem arrogant that throwing money into high tech stuff will save the day. Anyone notice that Russian jamming is making the guided Ukraine artillery hit only 6% of their targets? The US gave up sending Ukraine Excalibur guided artillery shells costing $100,000 because they rarely hit their target, report says Those rounds cost 100 times or more more than traditional artillery. I hope the rest of the USA defense is not like that. Just because you spend 10 times more on military does not mean you get value for that expenditure.

How much is waste or ineffective money spent by the USA is a guess. There is solid evidence the USA is vulnerable. In Hurricane Katrina New Orleans was paralyzed for days and it was only one city with no resistance. That the USA could not respond to 9/11 planes is another sign of potential weakness. How can the USA not shoot down a commercial aircraft aiming at the Pentagon? All those billions and that cannot be defended with a moment's notice? It has been suspected for years that the IRS has machine guns to defend the main IRS buildings. I guess you know the priorities of the USA. IRS has spent $10M on weapons, ammo and combat gear since 2020: watchdog Too bad there is not a more general defense of the USA. A couple of tow missiles to guard and defend main usa buildings is not in the budget? Many airports where anyone can access runways? Drunk driver crashes onto active runway at New Orleans airport Pipelines that cause gas shortages due to ransomware attacks Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack - Wikipedia In war it will not be for ransom and the intentions will be to do maximum harm. An economic impact felt from a single bridge collapse? Imagine what the top twenty bridges might do, or something like the Hoover dam? If the electric grid goes even 25% there will be domestic chaos.

Sorry I have to rant what i believe is true. The USA is absurd for worrying about what constitutes gender or giving inefficient subsidies in the name of clean energy while true war preparedness is lacking. The same is said for Universities that fund all kinds of twisted courses but make very progress on good campus security. Job one is SAFETY but this focus is clearly lacking all across the USA. Mentally too the USA is unprepared. It will be a tough transition for some to actually put on a uniform and defend their own freedoms if there is a draft.

The worst alternative for everyone would be an all out nuclear strike first. How fast could Biden respond, This book says he has about 6 minutes. What to Expect if Nuclear War Breaks Out

Back to strategy now. It is is interesting that China's dispute with the Philippines is escalating. Is it being used as a distraction? The bigger goal is Taiwan. Why are they poking at the Philippines which is hardening its defenses and allowing more USA forces access to Philippine bases? Maybe they will test usa resolve over some islands that few care about? That would be interesting but doing this would seemingly delay the Taiwan goal. Or perhaps we should suppose that China is really looking at a broader conflict that includes all the potential Taiwan Allies?

The 2027 dateline to retake Taiwan is pure disinformation. If anyone takes that seriously, it would only be provide a false sense of security. I imagine that one day those Chinese test exercises near Taiwan are going to turn out not to be a test. Everyone can see mass movement of ships and troops through satellites so I do not know how far you can take a "test" and not be taken too seriously?

Will china act? I read their demographics are getting worse. Too many aging are going to present economic challenges for years to come. Their property markets are in shambles and business is rightly moving out. Longer-term, India could overtake China. India's economy can overtake China's if it can stay on track

So trying to take Taiwan seems likely before Biden leaves. The world stock markets sure will be surprised. Many still even talk about investment into China like nothing is wrong. The only reason China might wait for action is that the USA might implode from within. Thus, there could be better future opportunities if they would wait. However, Iran seems too itchy. Could be the only reason they are waiting now is because China has told them to be patient. N.Korea is just a nuclear weapon pawn that will do whatever they are supposed to. Russia is already engaged but seems unlikely to take on nato alone.

For Russia it is a full-on war now. For Nato it is a proxy war, but no full war because Russia is not totally embargoed. Oil is being traded with few consequences etc. Weapons not allowed to strike targets inside Russia? Russians can still travel most places, very few international restrictions, not even all funds have been seized. Threatening other border nations to Russia would be stupid unless the Chinese and Russians really want a broader war. If they both do, then nukes may have to be in the mix.

I sure hope my thoughts are completely wrong. Spiritually I assume we are nearing apocalyptic times. Please pray and prepare as you are led.

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." - Sun Tzu
 
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Expert says the Chinese military could seize Taiwan’s government buildings in under an hour​

Images of Chinese warships seen off the coast of Taiwan served as a dire warning of a potential invasion that could disrupt the technology supply chain, plunge the world into an economic catastrophe, and start a hot war between the U.S. and China. NBC News’ Ken Dilanian speaks with a geopolitics expert who believes an actual invasion could be over before the U.S. even has a chance to respond.
I just don't find this plausible. First the PLA would have to get some troops (airborne commandos or something like that) to the government center of Taipei and then they'd have to fight off any local security/police at least. Even if they seized some government buildings, the political leaders would be wisked away to some secure back up location and all China would have is a couple buildings. A proper conquest of Taipei by landed forces would take some time. The failed attempt to quickly take Kyiv illustrates how tricky a "decapitation operation" is and Russia had a much easier path. They could just hang out in the woods across the border pretending to be "training" until they finally charged through the border crossings and down rural roads toward the capital. China will have to come by air/sea past well defended coastal emplacements.
 
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Richard T

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I'll just say that stupid thing nobody else is likely to say....

Remember back in 2016 when the media made fun of Trump for accepting a phone call from Taiwan's PM or president or whatever....because officially we have a "1 China policy" that recognizes Taiwan as part of China?

If you can recall this....

Why would we prevent China from doing anything with Taiwan as that would sort of be like China preventing us from doing something with California?

Or did the 1 China policy change? Or was it always just a lie we told China?

For anyone unfamiliar....

"The Taiwan Relations Act (TRA; Pub. L.Tooltip Public Law (United States) 96–8, H.R. 2479, 93 Stat. 14, enacted April 10, 1979) is an act of the United States Congress. Since the formal recognition of the People's Republic of China, the Act has defined the officially substantial but non-diplomatic relations between the United States of America and Taiwan (Republic of China)."

Before this Act USA security guarantees for Taiwan were stronger but "The act states that "the United States will make available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense services in such quantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capability" and "shall maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan".[9] However, the decision about the nature and quantity of defense services that America will provide to Taiwan is to be determined by the President and Congress." From Wikipedia

A bit ambiguous but there have been oral promises and in general the USA will likely do something for Taiwan. Besides if the USA loses Taiwan, then the Chinese will be coming for some Philippine islands. The Philippines has a mutual defense treaty with the USA, so no wiggling out of that. Could be the action will come there first anyway as the escalation is similar to what has been going on in Taiwan. Truman hesitated against the Chinese abnd kicked the can down the road. Looks like that won't happen much longer thanks to Nixon and others that started the thaw that led to China's economic break out.
 
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