How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug

[Anonymous9090]

A while back, I was debating with a nominal Catholic relative of mine about why same-sex marriage was sinful.
My nominal Catholic relative said that she felt that it was wrong to reject same-sex marriage because Christian can Not enforce their Christian view of marriage on others who are Not Christian. She essentially felt that homosexuals' rights should be respected, and Christians can Not criticize the LGBTQ+ approval and acceptance of same-sex marriage because their perspectives are Not the same as Christians.

My immediate response was more aligned with "fire and brimstone preaching" by passionately criticizing the LGBTQ+ culture by using the following scriptures:

Leviticus 18:22
New American Standard Bible 1995

22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Genesis 19:4-38
4 Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people [a]from every quarter; 5 and they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.” 6 But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly......more scripture.....more scripture......12 Then the two men said to Lot, “Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; 13 for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the Lord that the Lord has sent us to destroy it.”

Even though the aforementioned bible verses and passages are correct in condemning LGBTQ+ culture, I was Not satisfied with how I debated with my relative. The reason being is that I was quick to condemn by resorting to "fire and brimstone preaching"

It made me think by asking the following question:

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

Please do Not misunderstand me. The use of "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses certainly have their place in defending Christian values. However, "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses should Not be the sole approach, and in many cases Not the first step in arguing against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction.

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

 

[Lukaris]

1 John 2:1-29 gives us guidelines to love of neighbor vs to not love the world. I also realize that the sins referred to in places like Leviticus 18, 19, & 20 etc. are the same as what St. Paul refers to in the later verses of Romans 1. However, Paul was commissioned to preach the Gospel of which the Lord’s Sermon on the Mount is much of. A lot of people no longer know any better and are probably more lost than actually evil. Hope this can be of some help.

 

[jacks]

Compassionately comes from caring about the one you're talking with. Graciously is to do so in a non-condemning manner. We are all sinners.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

It is not our job to convince people (which we many times want to do as we want sinners to come to Christ), just share the good news and pray for God have mercy on them and Holy Spirit convict them of sin. That's all we can do.
People will react how they will react, nothing we can do.

As to what to tell people...the scripture says not to worry what to say, because the Holy Spirit will speak through you. Just point them to the cross of Christ and God's love that He showed to sinners though sacrifice of His Son.

In regards to homosexuality, it is really simple. God is the creator of marriage and He established the marriage to be of one male and one female, resembling the relationship between Jesus (groom) and His Church (bride). All other 'marriages' are invalid no matter what.

 

[PloverWing]

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

That's a long list, and the items on it are quite varied in nature. For actions like rape that clearly harm another person, you can describe the kind of harm that rape does. (Does your friend truly disagree that rape is bad?)

For the items that do not clearly harm another person, one option is to use "I" language. For example, "In my religious tradition, we do not drink alcohol, because <reason>. When I am tempted to drink alcohol, I do <action> instead, and it helps me to resist the temptation." I've had some gracious interfaith discussions that used first-person language like this.

 

[Matt5]

A while back, I was debating with a nominal Catholic relative of mine about why same-sex marriage was sinful.
My nominal Catholic relative said that she felt that it was wrong to reject same-sex marriage because Christian can Not enforce their Christian view of marriage on others who are Not Christian. She essentially felt that homosexuals' rights should be respected, and Christians can Not criticize the LGBTQ+ approval and acceptance of same-sex marriage because their perspectives are Not the same as Christians.

My immediate response was more aligned with "fire and brimstone preaching" by passionately criticizing the LGBTQ+ culture by using the following scriptures:





Even though the aforementioned bible verses and passages are correct in condemning LGBTQ+ culture, I was Not satisfied with how I debated with my relative. The reason being is that I was quick to condemn by resorting to "fire and brimstone preaching"

It made me think by asking the following question:

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

Please do Not misunderstand me. The use of "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses certainly have their place in defending Christian values. However, "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses should Not be the sole approach, and in many cases Not the first step in arguing against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction.

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

Imagine a forest that hasn't had a fire in 100 years. How can you argue against that dead tree over there or a dead bush over here? The real problem is everything.

Generally, all those things are just an indication of advanced rot in society. Time and prosperity have brought this on. I like to joke that soon the only people getting married and having kids will be from the LGBTQ+ community. And the only people who will want to join the military will be women and the LGBTQ+ community.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

How can they? Christians can do so by seeing people as fellow human beings first before seeing their "sin."

.... they could also decide to continue on when reading the letter to the Romans, beyond getting overly bogged down in chapter 1.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Narcistic Compassion isn't compassion, but self-righteousness.

Love doesn't mean affirming immoral behavior, but supporting what is true
and moral.

Mankind has had homosexual orientation since the beginning of time, just as
other disorders. However, same-sex unions do not make them "marriages,"
which can only exit between a man and woman.

When states like Vermont tried to make civil unions law, homosexual groups rejected it,
because they want homosexual unions to have the same moral equivalency as heterosexual
marriages. So, when homosexuals speak of rights, they're mostly referring to moral right, not civil
rights alone.

 

[jonojim1337]

Seems like an unnecessary discussion. Everyone is fallen, even the churches. The priest cannot save you. Marriage here, or marriage there, doesn't matter.

What would be interesting is how we can be conformed to the image of his Son, faster.

 

[com7fy8]

The Bible does condemn homosexuality; so this is part of our message . . . including >

"For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret." (Ephesians 5:12)

And yes in Romans 1:18-32 we see how ones rejecting God were turned over to evil drives, and Paul says they received "in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." (in Romans 1:27)

So, they were turned over to their evil passions, as a punishment! In sinning there is the built-in punishment of rejecting God, including the dominating and cruelly stupid drives, instead of sensitively sharing with God in His tenderly caring peace ruling us in our hearts (Colossians 3:15).

The anger, the frustration, the hate, and unforgiveness and boredom and loneliness and dominating and dictatorial drives are part of the automatic punishment of not submitting to God in His peace.

Even the pleasures of sin are cruel in comparison with sharing as family in God's gentle and humble and all-loving affection. Pleasure can isolate a person from loving; ones can be intimate with their own pleasure feelings, instead of intimate with God and His children in love.

And how does Paul say people started out so now they can suffer so deeply in selfish drives?

It says they were not "thankful" . . . in Romans 1:21 >

"they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful,"

we have in Romans 1:21. So, homosexuality can be a consequence, not a choice, which comes from first rejecting God by not being "thankful".

And homosexuals are not the only ones who suffer emotionally because of not being "thankful". Self-righteous judges also miss out, as do unforgiving people.

But with Paul's so strong criticism comes also God's very strong encouragement to all so better which we can have by means of God through Jesus - - - like maybe jonojim is saying >

Seems like an unnecessary discussion. Everyone is fallen, even the churches. The priest cannot save you. Marriage here, or marriage there, doesn't matter.

What would be interesting is how we can be conformed to the image of his Son, faster.

Yes, God our Father is not busy only with criticizing wrong people. But God our Father is especially interested in changing us to be and to love like Jesus Christ who is His own Son (Romans 8:29).

And by becoming gentle and humble and all-loving like Jesus we become able to share and relate with God and please Him like Jesus is so pleasing while we tenderly can share and care with one another as His family.

Therefore, then, we need to give this our main attention, not get decoyed in self-righteous criticizing.

But be examples of how others can become, while we pray this to enemies of God so they can join us.

 

[Stephen3141]

You are asking a good question.
But your "demonstration", includes a lot of Christian assumptions.

You need to be explicit in listing your assumptions.
---------- ----------

For example, your biblical passages describe homosexual behavior,
and that it is condemned in the Jewish-Christian moral-ethical system.
But you did not mention that both Jews and Christians consider the
Jewish Scriptures to be given to us by God, and that they are
morally-ethically authoritative.

Although these passages begin to explain THAT homosexuality is condemned in
Judaism and Christianity, these passages are not demonstrations WHY they
are condemned in Judaism and Christianity.

By the way, those who believe that the Christian Scriptures are authoritative,
often make the same mistake. They think that quoting the Scriptures, is a
demonstration that the Scriptures are authoritative.

A Hindu will quote different "scriptures" with the same assumption.
And a Mormon will quote different "scriptures with the same assumption.

For some reason, Protestant Fundamentalists cannot understand that
they need to demonstrate that the Bible is given to us by god, and
is morally-ethically authoritative. This is part of Christian apologetics.
---------- ----------

There is no question that the Old Testament and the New Testament condemn
homosexual behavior.

But Christians need to go the next step, to persuade people WHY this condemnation
is correct.

 

[jonojim1337]

John 3:16-21

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Romans 8:1-8

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

Matthew 5:48

"You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

God has given us his Son to overcome sin. But this doesn't mean everyone will take the opportunity.

 

[hedrick]

A while back, I was debating with a nominal Catholic relative of mine about why same-sex marriage was sinful.
My nominal Catholic relative said that she felt that it was wrong to reject same-sex marriage because Christian can Not enforce their Christian view of marriage on others who are Not Christian. She essentially felt that homosexuals' rights should be respected, and Christians can Not criticize the LGBTQ+ approval and acceptance of same-sex marriage because their perspectives are Not the same as Christians.

My immediate response was more aligned with "fire and brimstone preaching" by passionately criticizing the LGBTQ+ culture by using the following scriptures:





Even though the aforementioned bible verses and passages are correct in condemning LGBTQ+ culture, I was Not satisfied with how I debated with my relative. The reason being is that I was quick to condemn by resorting to "fire and brimstone preaching"

It made me think by asking the following question:

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

Please do Not misunderstand me. The use of "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses certainly have their place in defending Christian values. However, "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses should Not be the sole approach, and in many cases Not the first step in arguing against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction.

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

You can start by not lumping those together.

 

[HarleyER]

A while back, I was debating with a nominal Catholic relative of mine about why same-sex marriage was sinful.
My nominal Catholic relative said that she felt that it was wrong to reject same-sex marriage because Christian can Not enforce their Christian view of marriage on others who are Not Christian. She essentially felt that homosexuals' rights should be respected, and Christians can Not criticize the LGBTQ+ approval and acceptance of same-sex marriage because their perspectives are Not the same as Christians.

My immediate response was more aligned with "fire and brimstone preaching" by passionately criticizing the LGBTQ+ culture by using the following scriptures:





Even though the aforementioned bible verses and passages are correct in condemning LGBTQ+ culture, I was Not satisfied with how I debated with my relative. The reason being is that I was quick to condemn by resorting to "fire and brimstone preaching"

It made me think by asking the following question:

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

Please do Not misunderstand me. The use of "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses certainly have their place in defending Christian values. However, "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses should Not be the sole approach, and in many cases Not the first step in arguing against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction.

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

I see nothing wrong with what you stated. Your conviction that you might not have sounded as lovingly as you could is unfounded. People love their sins (John 3:19) and they hate the scriptures. I suspect your Catholic relative offered no scriptures to support their view (except probably "God wants us to love everyone.") Don't expect to be well received when you preach the word to the world. People love their sins. (John 3:19)

BTW-I find the most difficult people tend to be "religious" people who haven't a clue as to what the scriptures have to say or simply don't believe what the scriptures states. They are the Pharisees and Saducees of our days.

 

[Niels]

Regarding things like homosexuality, I think it's better to simply share the gospel. Not to lead by calling them out on specific behaviors. Focus instead on the good news. When they have the Holy Spirit, God will help them discern what the Bible says. The changes must come from within, as a result of their personal relationship with God.

In the meantime, there are sins of your own that you need to work on. God's word is for our own benefit. We all have room to improve.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Likely not the answer OP is looking for, but I tend to recommend one of the Christian bodies that are more likely to be accepting and welcoming of them. I think our job is to get them in the pew and let God handle the rest.

 

[Anonymous9090]

I see nothing wrong with what you stated. Your conviction that you might not have sounded as lovingly as you could is unfounded. People love their sins (John 3:19) and they hate the scriptures. I suspect your Catholic relative offered no scriptures to support their view (except probably "God wants us to love everyone.") Don't expect to be well received when you preach the word to the world. People love their sins. (John 3:19)

BTW-I find the most difficult people tend to be "religious" people who haven't a clue as to what the scriptures have to say or simply don't believe what the scriptures states. They are the Pharisees and Saducees of our days.

I'm cautious about giving first impressions that seem like I'm haranguing and/or lecturing people. I grew up in a legalistic nominal Catholic household. "Fire and brimstone" haranguing/lecturing from elders in my household was quite common.

John 1:17
New American Standard Bible 1995
17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth [a]were realized through Jesus Christ

John 1:17's reference to “grace and truth” is quite relevant here because Christians need to be gracious and truthful when we confront the world.

Exodus 34:6

6 .... “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;

Psalm 103:8

8 The Lord is compassionate and gracious, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness.

Psalm 145:8

8 The Lord is gracious and merciful; Slow to anger and great in lovingkindness.

Exodus 34:6 , Psalm 103:8 and Psalm 145:8’s emphasis on being “slow to anger” is relevant here.

Yes, you are correct in telling me that Leviticus 18:22 condemnation of same-sex relationships and the Genesis 19:4-38’s account of Sodom and Gomorrah’s destruction due to sinful homosexuality needs to be brought up.

However, "Fire and brimstone" haranguing/lecturing should Rarely be the 1st step when you are sharing the gospel or confronting someone about their sins.

Here is a quote from someone on a different forum in response to my question:

“for people who reject the Bible you might well have to look outside the Bible. Let's look at homosexuality. Past editions of the DSM (the manual for diagnosing mental illness) included homosexuality and transgender as mental illnesses. This naturally drew a lot of criticism and was considered offensive. A lot of Christians take the position that it's a choice rather than an illness, but I personally think that at the very least a comparison to illness is warranted. An illness hinders your ability to function, and if it overcomes your body's defenses it can potentially kill you. What's one of the basic functions of life? Reproduction. What would happen if all of humanity became homosexual? We'd cease to perform one of our basic functions and die out as a species. It's not an argument that's for every person or situation but it is one you can potentially use that doesn't rely on the Bible to make its point.”

I’m also trying to determine other ways to Graciously confront people who support LGBTQ+ rights. Please feel free to make suggestions.

 

[rockytopva]

8 For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the Lord was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily.
9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay. -Jeremiah 20

 

[Brihaha]

Try speaking against sin. There's no need to single out one's partiality of sins or respect to persons as mentioned in the book of James. Sin is sin. Your sins are not somehow less egregious than the sins of others. Everyone can sin but not everyone can love his neighbor. And judging pagans is God's domain alone. It's nearly impossible to judge the speck of dust in the eyes of others when we ourselves have a beam in our own eye. If we want to influence people to heed God's word, we should offer them His Word, not our own words.

If you aren't willing to love your neighbor and forgive him despite his shortcomings, why should you expect to receive love and forgiveness yourself? Maybe the best course of action is often no action at all. Simply take a seat and remove yourself from condemnation too. Many Christians have seemingly been an obstacle to the gay community who yearn for God's word but are too uncomfortable going to church. As Christians we are supposed to help each other get closer to God, not alienate sinners searching for spiritual sustenance. My bible says mercy triumphs judgment. Let us give that a try since favoritism and judgment are counterproductive to our goal.

 

[Yarddog]

A while back, I was debating with a nominal Catholic relative of mine about why same-sex marriage was sinful.
My nominal Catholic relative said that she felt that it was wrong to reject same-sex marriage because Christian can Not enforce their Christian view of marriage on others who are Not Christian. She essentially felt that homosexuals' rights should be respected, and Christians can Not criticize the LGBTQ+ approval and acceptance of same-sex marriage because their perspectives are Not the same as Christians.

My immediate response was more aligned with "fire and brimstone preaching" by passionately criticizing the LGBTQ+ culture by using the following scriptures:





Even though the aforementioned bible verses and passages are correct in condemning LGBTQ+ culture, I was Not satisfied with how I debated with my relative. The reason being is that I was quick to condemn by resorting to "fire and brimstone preaching"

It made me think by asking the following question:

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

Please do Not misunderstand me. The use of "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses certainly have their place in defending Christian values. However, "fire and brimstone" biblical passages and verses should Not be the sole approach, and in many cases Not the first step in arguing against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction.

"How can Christians graciously & compassionately argue against homosexuality, adultery, perversion, sexual assualt, rape, abortion alcohol and/or drug addiction?"

Graciously remember that we are all sinners. Speak as one sinner to another that we all need Grace to obtain salvation.