Donald Trump indicted by Manhattan grand jury

[essentialsaltes]

Seen in NYC.

 

[Hank77]

Uh.... a non disclosure agreement - which is not illegal. And it was one that Trump did not know about when executed - as shown already Mr. Cohen took a loan out to pay the NDA personally and then billed the Trump organization for it.

Are you saying that Cohen gifted Trump $130,000?

 

[BPPLEE]

Seen in NYC.

View attachment 347470

It’s true

 

[essentialsaltes]

It’s true

Political repercussions don't matter. The rule of law is more important.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Are you saying that Cohen gifted Trump $130,000?

Negative -

I and others have pointed out repeatedly that Cohen considered himself a fixer - acted independently in taking out a personal loan - paid the woman without Trump's knowledge (as evidenced by the paperwork and testimony) and then billed Trump to recover the money he borrowed. Trump's accounting staff - recorded the invoices from Trumps attorney as legal fees. That is not illegal.

The man had day to day operational control of 350 different companies both foreign and domestic. To believe he instructed his accounting department on how to enter invoices is ludicrous.

That is why one former DA and the Federal Government BOTH passed on pressing charges. Couple that with the statute of limitations had passed until a DA who campaigned on getting Trump was placed in office. Then and only then, 16 years after the fact did they remove the issues of limitations and begin this case.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Look at what CNN said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/04/politics/takeaways-donald-trump-indictment/index.html

Each criminal charge Trump is facing relates to a specific entry among the business records of the Trump Organization.​

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Did you catch that -

They have to prove the Trump made the accounting entry -

There is zero proof of him doing so. His accounting team has already testified they made the entry without Trump's input.

Right there that ends the case.

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​

 

[Hank77]

I and others have pointed out repeatedly that Cohen considered himself a fixer - acted independently in taking out a personal loan - paid the woman without Trump's knowledge

Cohen paid $130,000 not knowing if the Trump Organization would ever pay him that money back, plus money for the taxes to cover his $130,000 income.
I've never heard of a company paying an income tax bill for a hired contractor.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Let's go back to yesteryear (2018)​

Giuliani: Trump repaid attorney Cohen for Stormy Daniels settlement​

Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former New York mayor and a recent addition to President Trump’s legal team, said Wednesday night that Trump made a series of payments reimbursing his attorney Michael Cohen for a $130,000 settlement with an adult-film actress — despite Trump’s assertion last month that he was unaware of the payment.

“The president repaid it,’’ Giuliani told Fox News Channel’s Sean Hannity.
Trump “didn’t know about the specifics of it, as far as I know. But he did know the general arrangement, that Michael would take care of things like this, like I take care of things like this with my clients,” Giuliani said.

Later, Giuliani said in an interview with The Washington Post that when Cohen paid the settlement to actress Stormy Daniels, he knew he would eventually get paid back by Trump, as he was for other expenses.

 

[Hank77]

His accounting team has already testified they made the entry without Trump's input.

Who's input did they get? Who approved the invoice for payment?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Look at what CNN said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/04/politics/takeaways-donald-trump-indictment/index.html

Each criminal charge Trump is facing relates to a specific entry among the business records of the Trump Organization.​

​

Did you catch that -

Did you? It says "relates to".

They have to prove the Trump made the accounting entry -

No, they have to prove he caused it to happen. If that wasn't a path to criminal liability (causing it to happen) then mobsters could get away with murder by handing the gun to a henchman and saying "Here's the gun, Needles, you shoot him."

There is zero proof of him doing so. His accounting team has already testified they made the entry without Trump's input.

Right there that ends the case.

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If it did, it would be dismissed. This has been litigated before the trial and does not void the legal liability.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Cohen paid $130,000 not knowing if the Trump Organization would ever pay him that money back, plus money for the taxes to cover his $130,000 income.
I've never heard of a company paying an income tax bill for a hired contractor.

Who said someone paid an income tax for a contractor?? Were is income tax in all this? That does make sense.

One of his attorney's files invoices for services (paying the person) - his company paid the invoice - it really isn't that hard to understand.

Who's input did they get? Who approved the invoice for payment?

Oh.... the CFO - who already testified that Trump had no input on it.

That is what accounting departments and CFO's do - they pay bills and make entries.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

They have to prove the Trump made the accounting entry -

Not quite - they have to prove that he knew about the accounting entry (and its real purpose).

 

[Always in His Presence]

No, they have to prove he caused it to happen. If that wasn't a path to criminal liability (causing it to happen) then mobsters could get away with murder by handing the gun to a henchman and saying "Here's the gun, Needles, you shoot him."

Yep - they have to prove he made the entry - and it has already been testified that he did not -

 

[Always in His Presence]

Not quite - they have to prove that he knew about the accounting entry (and its real purpose).

How would they do that considering the CFO has already testified that he did not.

 

[essentialsaltes]

How would they do that considering the CFO has already testified that he did not.

The CFO is serving five months for perjury.

 

[Hank77]

Who said someone paid an income tax for a contractor?? Were is income tax in all this? That does make sense.

Cohen is an independent contractor he is not an employee.
Cohen's bank statement with Weisellburg's notes on it says so. On the reverse side a McConney notes.

Oh.... the CFO - who already testified that Trump had no input on it.

CFO Weisellburg has not testified in this trial that I know of, which day was that? I think you are referring to the Trump Org. controller McConney. Here's a quote...
Former Trump Organization controller Jeffrey McConney testified about how he learned about the need to reimburse Michael Cohen in 2017.

"Allen said, 'We have to get some money to Michael -- reimburse Michael," McConney said, referring to then-Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg. "He tossed a pad toward me and I started taking notes on what he said. That's how I found out about it."
McConney said that the money included Cohen's bonus for the year and "some other money he was owed."

McConney says Weisselberg told him about reimbursing Cohen

Follow the latest developments in former President Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial in New York.

abcnews.go.com

That is what accounting departments and CFO's do - they pay bills and make entries.

I worked in accounting for 40 years, and several years for a mid-size property management company. I think I know a little bit about how accounts payable works and what I don't know my accountant and controller daughter does. She's the controller for a manufacturing company.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

How would they do that considering the CFO has already testified that he did not.

You said that the CFO testified that Trump had no input. Not having input does not imply a lack of knowledge. It just means that he didn't give any instructions related to the payment.

Do you have a link to this piece of testimony so that we can clarify what was actually said?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Who said someone paid an income tax for a contractor?? Were is income tax in all this? That does make sense.

The "income tax" comes into all of this because Trump *doubled* the repayment of the $130,000 (and an extra $50,000 Cohen spent funding fake internet polls in the primaries) so that after Cohen paid his roughly 50% state, local, and federal taxes on the doubled amount he would get back the $180,000 he was owed by Trump. This was because it was recorded *falsely* as regular income (fees for legal services) rather than as a reimbursable outlay. (I don't pay taxes when I get a reimbursement for expenses I paid for travel on business related to my job, just like anyone from any employer. The same applies for lawyers and their bills $X/hour + expenses. Expenses aren't income. They are reimbursement.)

 

[iluvatar5150]

The man had day to day operational control of 350 different companies both foreign and domestic.

lol, I haven't seen that claim surface in a while.

For anybody who cares - the overwhelming majority of those "companies" were LLC's set up to handle transactions for individual real estate and licensing deals, often two per deal, but in some cases, more than two, many of which were never even completed. I wonder how much "day to day operational control" is required to cash a check for letting somebody put your name on a building.

 

[Always in His Presence]

lol, I haven't seen that claim surface in a while.

For anybody who cares - the overwhelming majority of those "companies" were LLC's set up to handle transactions for individual real estate and licensing deals, often two per deal, but in some cases, more than two, many of which were never even completed. I wonder how much "day to day operational control" is required to cash a check for letting somebody put your name on a building.

LOL - the managed a combined 3-4 billion dollar a year enterprise that spanned the US and Europe. Operational Control on a global scale that I would venture to guess not one person here is qualified to accurately comment on. That is established fact - Tell me you honestly think he made such minimal decisions as to how the bookkeeper is going to enter an invoice from his attorney.

Trump's new financial disclosure shows his number of business holdings has doubled since leaving White House​

The 101-page disclosure report, filed with the Federal Election Commission as part of Trump's 2024 presidential campaign, details his personal wealth and income since January of 2022 and offers a first look at the state of his vast business interests since he returned to private life.​

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The report, which was filed weeks late even after Trump was given two 45-day extensions, shows that Trump has acquired hundreds of new assets -- but it's unclear exactly how the former president's businesses have been faring because much of financial information is only reported in broad ranges, per FEC requirements.​

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So please - please let's at the very least be intellectually honest.