The mind set on the flesh

[zoidar]

How do you think this does that? I don’t see how the narrative goes against the didactic. It doesn’t say anything about when God changes a heart.

If it shows you receive the Holy Spirit after repentance, it shows God changes the heart after repentance. Unless you believe God changes the heart before you receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hammster]

If it shows you receive the Holy Spirit after repentance, it shows God changes the heart after repentance. Unless you believe God changes the heart before you receive the Holy Spirit.

That says nothing about the change of heart equating the receiving of the Spirit. Again, you are reading into the text. And you’ve yet to address the Romans passage.

 

[zoidar]

That says nothing about the change of heart equating the receiving of the Spirit. Again, you are reading into the text. And you’ve yet to address the Romans passage.

It does not need to say anything about the change of heart equating the receiving of the Spirit. It's a general understanding among Christians with very few exceptions. It's also supported in Scripture elsewhere. If you don't agree with most Christians about this, you can say so and give your view on the topic.

I will address Romans. I just want to read up on it first.

 

[Hammster]

It does not need to say anything about the change of heart equating the receiving of the Spirit. It's a general understanding among Christians with very few exceptions. It's also supported in Scripture elsewhere. If you don't agree with most Christians about this, you can say so and give your view on the topic.

I will address Romans. I just want to read up on it first.

I believe that we can not do anything pleasing in the flesh. See the OP.

 

[zoidar]

I believe that we can not do anything pleasing in the flesh. See the OP.

Ok, fine you don't want to give me chance to prove your reading of Rom 8 wrong from Acts. I'll move on to Romans then.

 

[Hammster]

Ok, fine you don't want to give me chance to prove your reading of Rom 8 wrong from Acts. I'll move on to Romans then.

You just made statements where you assumed your conclusion.

 

[zoidar]

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:5-8

When it comes to regeneration, there are two arguments. Or at least two that I know of. One is that we believe, and then are regenerated, and the other is that we are regenerated and then believe. I think the above passage makes a clear argument that we cannot believe prior to be regenerated. The reason is that faith or belief is something that pleases God. Being obedient to Christ’s command is something that pleases God. I also think that believing the gospel and being obedient or things that must be done in the spirit and not in the flesh. And the reason is, as the above passage says, we cannot please God in the flesh.

If the only way to pleaseGod is to be in the Spirit, then the argument would be that one must be in the Spirit before he or she can be obedient to Christ’s command to believe and repent.

First question, what does it mean the flesh can't please God? It does not subject itself to the law of God. Second question, is repentance part of the law of God?

 

[Hammster]

First question, what does it mean the flesh can't please God?

It means that those in the flesh can do nothing to please God.

It does not subject itself to the law of God.

Yes

Second question, is repentance part of the law of God?

Since it’s a command, then it’s law.

 

[zoidar]

Since it’s a command, then it’s law.

Can you show it's part of the law of God?

 

[Hammster]

Can you show it's part of the law of God?

God gave the command. Mark 1:15

 

[zoidar]

God gave the command. Mark 1:15

Where does it say those commands are part of the law? Or if you like, where does it say all God's commands are part of the law?

 

[Hammster]

Where does it say all God's commands are part of the law?

Law is a broad term. It comes down to that which is commanded. I’m not sure why Jesus commanding us to repent has any less authority than God saying to not commit adultery.

 

[zoidar]

Law is a broad term. It comes down to that which is commanded. I’m not sure why Jesus commanding us to repent has any less authority than God saying to not commit adultery.

Ok, so it's an assumption?

 

[Hammster]

Ok, so it's an assumption?

No, it’s a command. Just like Thou shalt not steal.

 

[zoidar]

No, it’s a command. Just like Thou shalt not steal.

You are saying repentance is law because it's a God's command, but you can't show all God's commands are law? Specifically, you can't show the command of repentance is law?

 

[Hammster]

You are saying repentance is law because it's a God's command, but you can't show all God's commands are law? Specifically, you can't show the command of repentance is law?

So let’s say there a difference between a law and a command. What is the difference?

 

[zoidar]

So let’s say there a difference between a law and a command. What is the difference?

Since Paul in Rom 8:5-8 says pleasing God means subjection to the law. If repentance isn't part of the law, repentance is not something Paul says is part of what those of the flesh can't do. Iow, repentance has nothing to do with what's pleasing to God in this context.

Before you say I assume things. When I read the text this is what I see. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'm trying to focus on the meaning of the text.

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and ("and" is actually not in the Greek) those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:6-8

 

[Hammster]

Since Paul in Rom 8:5-8 says pleasing God means subjection to the law. If repentance isn't part of the law, repentance is not something Paul says is part of what those of the flesh can't do. Iow, repentance has nothing to do with what's pleasing to God in this context.

Before you say I assume things. When I read the text this is what I see. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'm trying to focus on the meaning of the text.

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and ("and" is actually not in the Greek) those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:6-8

You still haven’t given me difference between the law and a command.

 

[zoidar]

You still haven’t given me difference between the law and a command.

The Law of God is like a big set of rules especifically for the people of Israel, including the Ten Commandments. Commands of God are more like specific instructions or guidance given by God, covering a wide range of topics and situations.

(Took some help from a friend )

Repentance can be said to be a response to God's moral Law, not the moral Law itself.

 

[Hammster]

The Law of God is like a big set of rules especifically for the people of Israel, including the Ten Commandments. Commands of God are more like specific instructions or guidance given by God, covering a wide range of topics and situations.

(Took some help from a friend )

Repentance can be said to be a response to God's moral Law, not the moral Law itself.

Are you saying that the Ten Commandments aren’t for us today?