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‘Fiducia Supplicans’: A Pastor’s View

Michie

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The great joy of a parish priest is to be with the people of God, elbow deep in the midst of their joys, sorrows and sufferings. The fatherly vocation of the parish priest is to teach, govern and sanctify his parishioners in Christ’s name. This is done by teaching and shepherding, exhorting and consoling, absolving and admonishing, guiding his parishioners to greater conviction in their discipleship, encouraging them, accompanying them, crying and laughing with them, and — in all things Christian — to love them as a reflection of Christ’s own love for the Church.

The corridors of the Vatican dicasteries are very different from the trenches of parish life. Magisterial declarations can be promulgated (perhaps even with good intentions) and explained within a series of theological gymnastics to the satisfaction of high Churchmen, but parish priests and the people under their pastoral care are left scratching their heads trying to figure out what was just declared, what it all means, and how we’re supposed to make sense of it.

Continued below.
 

WarriorAngel

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The great joy of a parish priest is to be with the people of God, elbow deep in the midst of their joys, sorrows and sufferings. The fatherly vocation of the parish priest is to teach, govern and sanctify his parishioners in Christ’s name. This is done by teaching and shepherding, exhorting and consoling, absolving and admonishing, guiding his parishioners to greater conviction in their discipleship, encouraging them, accompanying them, crying and laughing with them, and — in all things Christian — to love them as a reflection of Christ’s own love for the Church.

The corridors of the Vatican dicasteries are very different from the trenches of parish life. Magisterial declarations can be promulgated (perhaps even with good intentions) and explained within a series of theological gymnastics to the satisfaction of high Churchmen, but parish priests and the people under their pastoral care are left scratching their heads trying to figure out what was just declared, what it all means, and how we’re supposed to make sense of it.

Continued below.
I think of the Pope similar to Yoda.
He speaks backwards, but unlike Yoda, he can be misunderstood.
 
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I think it is frustrating for ALL.

He struggles with articulating concise thoughts that can or are understood by all or most.
It could be a defect of style, or it could be the ones [either side] who are already prejudice to what they want to see or hear.
 
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Michie

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I think it is frustrating for ALL.

He struggles with articulating concise thoughts that can or are understood by all or most.
It could be a defect of style, or it could be the ones [either side] who are already prejudice to what they want to see or hear.
Nobody set out to dislike this pope. He can communicate perfectly well. The problem is he does not like being questioned. What does that say?? Seriously, people trying to explain away the obvious does not do him or fellow Catholics any favors.
 
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Nobody set out to dislike this pope. He can communicate perfectly well. The problem is he does not like being questioned. What does that say?? Seriously, people trying to explain away the obvious does not do him or fellow Catholics any favors.
I withhold personal opinions on him, because I do not know what the Lord intends in this matter.

And before someone says he is saying to bless same sex, I have read it and it doesn't say that.
Unless I over looked it.

And I know and St Peter knew, and historically we all know, anything written can be subverted by opinions of what the context means.

This is why St Peter spoke in a vex manner, reprimanding with threat of damnation anyone wresting [forming opinions and interpretations] on what scriptures mean and the Epistles of Paul... [his letters?] seems harsh.

But in todays world of over 30,000 churches, all believe different things, from the same writings.
But St Paul taught in the Churches and when asked to explain further in writing, because he was no longer present, he continued his teaching and often did not reiterate what he taught.

For instance the letters and the Acts suggest laying of hands. It was already taught in person and taught to the priests [presbyters]


So to shorten where I am going....St Paul told Timothy [a Bishop] keep what I spoke and wrote.

People today cannot read long writings.
So much more we can be led.


BUT if we must decide what the Pope is saying...
HE did not say the FORMER writing is useless on this.
 
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Michie

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I withhold personal opinions on him, because I do not know what the Lord intends in this matter.

And before someone says he is saying to bless same sex, I have read it and it doesn't say that.
Unless I over looked it.

And I know and St Peter knew, and historically we all know, anything written can be subverted by opinions of what the context means.

This is why St Peter spoke in a vex manner, reprimanding with threat of damnation anyone wresting [forming opinions and interpretations] on what scriptures mean and the Epistles of Paul... [his letters?] seems harsh.

But in todays world of over 30,000 churches, all believe different things, from the same writings.
But St Paul taught in the Churches and when asked to explain further in writing, because he was no longer present, he continued his teaching and often did not reiterate what he taught.

For instance the letters and the Acts suggest laying of hands. It was already taught in person and taught to the priests [presbyters]


So to shorten where I am going....St Paul told Timothy [a Bishop] keep what I spoke and wrote.

People today cannot read long writings.
So much more we can be led.


BUT if we must decide what the Pope is saying...
HE did not say the FORMER writing is useless on this.
WA, seriously.. what you do is your business but nobody is required to leave their common sense at the door in these matters. Of course you have an opinion. Anyone that says they do not is not being honest. Those that act like they are completely docile and understanding of all these strange self contradictory documents and statements are somehow better Catholics than those that voice their concerns are not. The circular popesplaining and projecting is not helpful. It’s just gaslighting. The pope is the shepherd of the Church. He needs to shepherd and tend to the flock as well as those he is trying to draw in. So far there is a lot of misunderstanding within the flock as well as those outside of it. Disagreeing with a pope’s thoughts and opinions is not new but suddenly people act as though it is. It does not mean we are judging his eternal destination or cease to pray for him. It simply means we would like the pope to clarify when there are questions from the flock. It’s his job. All these crazy things people say trying to act as if everyone else is just ignorant is just gaslighting. There is too much concern from all sorts out there to simply say he can’t get answers across clearly or that the things he says are not extremely problematic in witness.
 
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WA, seriously.. what you do is your business but nobody is required to leave their common sense at the door in these matters. Of course you have an opinion. Anyone that says they do not is not being honest. Those that act like they are completely docile and understanding of all these strange self contradictory documents and statements are somehow better Catholics than those that voice their concerns are not. The circular popesplaining and projecting is not helpful. It’s just gaslighting. The pope is the shepherd of the Church. He needs to shepherd and tend to the flock as well as those he is trying to draw in. So far there is a lot of misunderstanding within the flock as well as those outside of it. Disagreeing with a pope’s thoughts and opinions is not new but suddenly people act as though it is. It does not mean we are judging his eternal destination or cease to pray for him. It simply means we would like the pope to clarify when there are questions from the flock. It’s his job. All these crazy things people say trying to act as if everyone else is just ignorant is just gaslighting. There is too much concern from all sorts out there to simply say he can’t get answers across clearly or that the things he says are not extremely problematic in witness.
I am looking for specifics...

What has been stated that changes what he already wrote?
 
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Michie

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WA. I have posted on this topic since day 1. Have you been reading? What are your specifics? Why does the document say couples if it’s only supposed to be individuals? I have seen Chevy show you specifics that you claim we’re not there and I saw no replies from you.
 
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The Vatican this week prompted widespread debate among bishops and other Church leaders, after Monday’s publication of Fiducia supplicans, which offers a framework for clerical blessings of same-sex couples.

While some have praised the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith’s text, others have raised serious concerns, and some bishops’ conferences have pushed back on the implementation of the document in their countries.


Fiducia supplicans was authored by Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez, who was appointed to lead the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith earlier this year.

But Cardinal Gerhard Müller, who led the Vatican’s doctrinal office from 2012 until 2017, said in an essay Thursday the text is “self-contradictory” and “requires further clarification.”

Müller sent that essay, with exclusive permission to publish, to
The Pillar, and to publications working in Italian, Spanish, and German.

In light of the ongoing debate over
Fiducia supplicans, and Müller’s role in the Church, The Pillar publishes his essay below, in its entirety:

The Only Blessing of Mother Church is the Truth That Will Set Us Free. Note on the Declaration Fiducia supplicans​

Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller

With the Declaration Fiducia supplicans(FS) on the Pastoral Significance of Blessings, the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) has made an affirmation that has no precedent in the teaching of the Catholic Church. In fact, this document affirms that it is possible for a priest to bless (not liturgically, but privately) couples who live in a sexual relationship outside of marriage, including same-sex couples. The many questions raised by bishops, priests, and laity in response to these statements deserve a clear and unequivocal response.

Does this statement not clearly contradict Catholic teaching? Are the faithful obliged to accept this new teaching? May the priest perform such new practices that have just been invented? And can the diocesan bishop forbid them if they were to take place in his diocese? To answer these questions, let us see what exactly the document teaches and what arguments it relies on.

Continued below.
 
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Michie

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From the op…

The people I encounter in active parish life are the ones who have repented, or who want to repent, or who want to want to repent. They understand the need to seek the graces of conversion, to repent, confess their sins in prayer and in sacramental confession, remedy their state of sin, reconcile with the Lord Jesus and the Church, do acts of penance, and seek the ongoing help of God’s grace to persevere in the way of the Lord Jesus.

Such a process of conversion is displayed for us in the public ministry of the Lord Jesus in the Gospel. We see it throughout the Acts of the Apostles, and, more recently, such a process was confirmed and elevated by the Second Vatican Council in Ad Gentes, its decree on missionary activity, and by Pope Francis in his apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium. It is a process that is also known by every Christian believer, as we are all constantly called to undergo such a process so that we can draw closer to the Lord Jesus every day.

Sadly, there are no references to repentance, the sacrament of confession or conversion in Fiducia Supplicans. There is only one passing reference (in a quote) to penitential practices. The declaration’s references to grace are overly passive and do not call for a change of one’s life. The limp references to grace in the declaration do not withstand the “sniff test” of the real fight between sin and holiness.

This is one of many foundational problems associated with what many see as a blind jump to give pastoral blessings to those in irregular relationships.


And it continues to go into more detail if anyone cares to read it.
The great joy of a parish priest is to be with the people of God, elbow deep in the midst of their joys, sorrows and sufferings. The fatherly vocation of the parish priest is to teach, govern and sanctify his parishioners in Christ’s name. This is done by teaching and shepherding, exhorting and consoling, absolving and admonishing, guiding his parishioners to greater conviction in their discipleship, encouraging them, accompanying them, crying and laughing with them, and — in all things Christian — to love them as a reflection of Christ’s own love for the Church.

The corridors of the Vatican dicasteries are very different from the trenches of parish life. Magisterial declarations can be promulgated (perhaps even with good intentions) and explained within a series of theological gymnastics to the satisfaction of high Churchmen, but parish priests and the people under their pastoral care are left scratching their heads trying to figure out what was just declared, what it all means, and how we’re supposed to make sense of it.

Continued below.
 
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WarriorAngel

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WA. I have posted on this topic since day 1. Have you been reading? What are your specifics? Why does the document say couples if it’s only supposed to be individuals? I have seen Chevy show you specifics that you claim we’re not there and I saw no replies from you.
Because the question directed from Germany and Belgium was 'couples'.
Germany and Belgium have been 'blessing gay couples' and so this all came up after what Pope Francis wrote in 2021.
 
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Michie

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Because the question directed from Germany and Belgium was 'couples'.
Germany and Belgium have been 'blessing gay couples' and so this all came up after what Pope Francis wrote in 2021.
A Kentucky priest just blessed a couple along with Fr. Martin blessing couples. It’s obvious people are taking this document and doing whatever they please with it.
 
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(not liturgically, but privately) couples who live in a sexual relationship outside of marriage, including same-sex couples. The many questions raised by bishops, priests, and laity in response to these statements deserve a clear and unequivocal response.
It does not say couples may be blessed as a gay union.....



20. One who asks for a blessing show himself to be in need of God’s saving presence in his life and one who asks for a blessing from the Church recognizes the latter as a sacrament of the salvation that God offers. To seek a blessing in the Church is to acknowledge that the life of the Church springs from the womb of God’s mercy and helps us to move forward, to live better, and to respond to the Lord’s will.

21. In order to help us understand the value of a more pastoral approach to blessings, Pope Francis urges us to contemplate, with an attitude of faith and fatherly mercy, the fact that “when one asks for a blessing, one is expressing a petition for God’s assistance, a plea to live better, and confidence in a Father who can help us live better.”[12] This request should, in every way, be valued, accompanied, and received with gratitude. People who come spontaneously to ask for a blessing show by this request their sincere openness to transcendence, the confidence of their hearts that they do not trust in their own strength alone, their need for God, and their desire to break out of the narrow confines of this world, enclosed in its limitations.

```````

26. In this perspective, the Holy Father’s Respuestas aid in expanding the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s 2021 pronouncement from a pastoral point of view. For, the Respuestas invite discernment concerning the possibility of “forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not convey an erroneous conception of marriage”[17] and, in situations that are morally unacceptable from an objective point of view, account for the fact that “pastoral charity requires us not to treat simply as ‘sinners’ those whose guilt or responsibility may be attenuated by various factors affecting subjective imputability.”[18]

27. In the catechesis cited at the beginning of this Declaration, Pope Francis proposed a description of this kind of blessing that is offered to all without requiring anything. It is worth reading these words with an open heart, for they help us grasp the pastoral meaning of blessings offered without preconditions: “It is God who blesses. In the first pages of the Bible, there is a continual repetition of blessings. God blesses, but humans also give blessings, and soon it turns out that the blessing possesses a special power, which accompanies those who receive it throughout their lives, and disposes man’s heart to be changed by God. [...] So we are more important to God than all the sins we can commit because he is father, he is mother, he is pure love, he has blessed us forever. And he will never stop blessing us. It is a powerful experience to read these biblical texts of blessing in a prison or in a rehabilitation group. To make those people feel that they are still blessed, notwithstanding their serious mistakes, that their heavenly Father continues to will their good and to hope that they will ultimately open themselves to the good. Even if their closest relatives have abandoned them, because they now judge them to be irredeemable, God always sees them as his children.”[19]

`````

AS I read it, I do not read it as the Pope is pro-gay unions and now they can be blessed.

His writings convey that spontaneously the Lord calls sinners who seek blessings and again, the clergy must ascertain the nature of the blessings.
And blessing a union for the sake of the union itself to be blessed is not allowed.
But the individuals who seek change and doing God's will ought to be blessed.


----

30. The popular understanding of blessings, however, also values the importance of descending blessings. While “it is not appropriate for a Diocese, a Bishops’ Conference, or any other ecclesial structure to constantly and officially establish procedures or rituals for all kinds of matters,”[21] pastoral prudence and wisdomavoiding all serious forms of scandal and confusion among the faithful—may suggest that the ordained minister join in the prayer of those persons who, although in a union that cannot be compared in any way to a marriage, desire to entrust themselves to the Lord and his mercy, to invoke his help, and to be guided to a greater understanding of his plan of love and of truth.

III. Blessings of Couples in Irregular Situations and of Couples of the Same Sex

31. Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage. In such cases, a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value but also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who—recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help—do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses of his Spirit—what classical theology calls “actual grace”—so that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the Gospel, that they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties, and that they may express themselves in the ever-increasing dimension of the divine love.


---

As I said before he is suggesting that the people be in the right form for 'changing' away from the lifestyle and not blessing an irregular union.

I do not see the problem of what he is trying to get done.
I do see the problem of the pastoral 'wisdom' which is divided and divisive to suggest he is strongly speaking in either direction away from teaching.
 
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WarriorAngel

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A Kentucky priest just blessed a couple along with Fr. Martin blessing couples. It’s obvious people are taking this document and doing whatever they please with it.
As the Pope said [I quoted above] they may not do these things....
Scandal and confusion.

SO the choices they make do not stem from the Pope's writing.
They pervert the writings to assuage the disobedience of their choices.

Yet we know and see the many things Jesus said have been grossly perverted.
And yet I suggest prayers for priests who are so lost.
Evil is attacking the priests most.

Strike the shepherd and scatter the sheep.

ALSO - remove people from the power of the sacraments and create anger within and many may fall.
 
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Michie

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It does not say couples may be blessed as a gay union.....



20. One who asks for a blessing show himself to be in need of God’s saving presence in his life and one who asks for a blessing from the Church recognizes the latter as a sacrament of the salvation that God offers. To seek a blessing in the Church is to acknowledge that the life of the Church springs from the womb of God’s mercy and helps us to move forward, to live better, and to respond to the Lord’s will.

21. In order to help us understand the value of a more pastoral approach to blessings, Pope Francis urges us to contemplate, with an attitude of faith and fatherly mercy, the fact that “when one asks for a blessing, one is expressing a petition for God’s assistance, a plea to live better, and confidence in a Father who can help us live better.”[12] This request should, in every way, be valued, accompanied, and received with gratitude. People who come spontaneously to ask for a blessing show by this request their sincere openness to transcendence, the confidence of their hearts that they do not trust in their own strength alone, their need for God, and their desire to break out of the narrow confines of this world, enclosed in its limitations.

```````

26. In this perspective, the Holy Father’s Respuestas aid in expanding the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s 2021 pronouncement from a pastoral point of view. For, the Respuestas invite discernment concerning the possibility of “forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not convey an erroneous conception of marriage”[17] and, in situations that are morally unacceptable from an objective point of view, account for the fact that “pastoral charity requires us not to treat simply as ‘sinners’ those whose guilt or responsibility may be attenuated by various factors affecting subjective imputability.”[18]

27. In the catechesis cited at the beginning of this Declaration, Pope Francis proposed a description of this kind of blessing that is offered to all without requiring anything. It is worth reading these words with an open heart, for they help us grasp the pastoral meaning of blessings offered without preconditions: “It is God who blesses. In the first pages of the Bible, there is a continual repetition of blessings. God blesses, but humans also give blessings, and soon it turns out that the blessing possesses a special power, which accompanies those who receive it throughout their lives, and disposes man’s heart to be changed by God. [...] So we are more important to God than all the sins we can commit because he is father, he is mother, he is pure love, he has blessed us forever. And he will never stop blessing us. It is a powerful experience to read these biblical texts of blessing in a prison or in a rehabilitation group. To make those people feel that they are still blessed, notwithstanding their serious mistakes, that their heavenly Father continues to will their good and to hope that they will ultimately open themselves to the good. Even if their closest relatives have abandoned them, because they now judge them to be irredeemable, God always sees them as his children.”[19]

`````

AS I read it, I do not read it as the Pope is pro-gay unions and now they can be blessed.

His writings convey that spontaneously the Lord calls sinners who seek blessings and again, the clergy must ascertain the nature of the blessings.
And blessing a union for the sake of the union itself to be blessed is not allowed.
But the individuals who seek change and doing God's will ought to be blessed.


----

30. The popular understanding of blessings, however, also values the importance of descending blessings. While “it is not appropriate for a Diocese, a Bishops’ Conference, or any other ecclesial structure to constantly and officially establish procedures or rituals for all kinds of matters,”[21] pastoral prudence and wisdomavoiding all serious forms of scandal and confusion among the faithful—may suggest that the ordained minister join in the prayer of those persons who, although in a union that cannot be compared in any way to a marriage, desire to entrust themselves to the Lord and his mercy, to invoke his help, and to be guided to a greater understanding of his plan of love and of truth.

III. Blessings of Couples in Irregular Situations and of Couples of the Same Sex

31. Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage. In such cases, a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value but also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who—recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help—do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses of his Spirit—what classical theology calls “actual grace”—so that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the Gospel, that they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties, and that they may express themselves in the ever-increasing dimension of the divine love.


---

As I said before he is suggesting that the people be in the right form for 'changing' away from the lifestyle and not blessing an irregular union.

I do not see the problem of what he is trying to get done.
I do see the problem of the pastoral 'wisdom' which is divided and divisive to suggest he is strongly speaking in either direction away from teaching.
Well that’s what’s happening WA. And the pope has done nothing to clarify as usual. I think I’ll stay with Cardinals and Muller and Sarah, etc. are saying. It’s incredibly destructive and it is not doing the Church any favors. You can repeatedly post what you’ve been posting without addressing anything else others post but it does not remove the problems associated with this document that speaks out of both sides of its mouth. It does not change the fall out.
 
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Well that’s what’s happening WA. And the pope has done nothing to clarify as usual. I think I’ll stay with Cardinals and Muller and Sarah, etc. are saying. It’s incredibly destructive and it is not doing the Church any favors. You can repeatedly post what you’ve been posting without addressing anything else others post but it does not remove the problems associated with this document that speaks out of both sides of its mouth. It does not change the fall out.
He clarified it in 2021.

These clergy may have unresolved issues with this subject. They have stuff inside the unconscious mind that 'experiences' temptation in the unconscious mind pushing them to 'feel' akin to the subject matter.

IE - some of the more 'gay is good' priests could have an underlying issue.
It comes through childhood trauma, self talk at a young age, tempters through the 'trauma' and in some traumas it stays there.
It's awful.

So as they grow up, they do not recognize the tempters voice to their own in the early trauma. They might have cycles, themselves.

The Pope clarified the 'reason' he says it is okay to bless people WHO come to the Church recognizing the desire to change.

He wants the pastoral care to help them and blessings can help transcend them into graces.
FOR the LORD calls all, but few respond.

Nevertheless; of the amount of blessings genuinely sought... they have been called to seek it.
If someone wants to cooperate with that call... then they will heal of the trauma in their unconscious mind.

+If someone wants recognition for being gay, the blessings may just sit there and be hidden from changing them but sits there as a seed...maybe.
The pastors have their own unconscious traumas to not be aware how to pastor.
 
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Michie

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He clarified it in 2021.

These clergy may have unresolved issues with this subject. They have stuff inside the unconscious mind that 'experiences' temptation in the unconscious mind pushing them to 'feel' akin to the subject matter.

IE - some of the more 'gay is good' priests could have an underlying issue.
It comes through childhood trauma, self talk at a young age, tempters through the 'trauma' and in some traumas it stays there.
It's awful.

So as they grow up, they do not recognize the tempters voice to their own in the early trauma. They might have cycles, themselves.

The Pope clarified the 'reason' he says it is okay to bless people WHO come to the Church recognizing the desire to change.

He wants the pastoral care to help them and blessings can help transcend them into graces.
FOR the LORD calls all, but few respond.

Nevertheless; of the amount of blessings genuinely sought... they have been called to seek it.
If someone wants to cooperate with that call... then they will heal of the trauma in their unconscious mind.

+If someone wants recognition for being gay, the blessings may just sit there and be hidden from changing them but sits there as a seed...maybe.
The pastors have their own unconscious traumas to not be aware how to pastor.
Give it up WA. I posted over and over again why myself and others feel they way I do. You never address anything anyone says. You keep posting the same thing over and over. You keep doing you. I’m not going to have a one sided discussion on this with you. I’ll continue to wait for the pope to step up. You do not need to do it for him. It does him no favors.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Well that’s what’s happening WA. And the pope has done nothing to clarify as usual. I think I’ll stay with Cardinals and Muller and Sarah, etc. are saying. It’s incredibly destructive and it is not doing the Church any favors. You can repeatedly post what you’ve been posting without addressing anything else others post but it does not remove the problems associated with this document that speaks out of both sides of its mouth. It does not change the fall out.
The Pope is speaking for the souls vs the choices many make to stay in the lifestyle.

I cannot explain so much as I am sure the Pope cannot.

He is not speaking indirectly, he is direct.

The union cannot be blessed and they may not cause a scandal.
THAT said: if people seek a blessing, then the Pope advocates they were [and all humans are] called to find the Lord and blessings are beneficial

Now mind you, blessings work if the heart for change is by a call, then why would someone resist helping someone?


Basically, we cannot all read hearts [think St Pio] to know intent of the blessings.
But in the off chance it is genuine, then do not leave a soul in distress.

The Pope says.. people who want the Lord genuinely, will come to the Church.

The pastors need prayer to avoid scandals. But surely, as we see 30,000 denominations, people CHOSE what they discern to believe.

So they may ignore tradition, teachings, 2021 and ignore the entire writing if they want to read it this way. This goes for every writing in theology.
Obviously we have two schisms....
 
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WarriorAngel

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Give it up WA. I posted over and over again why myself and others feel they way I do. You never address anything anyone says. You keep posting the same thing over and over. You keep doing you. I’m not going to have a one sided discussion on this with you. I’ll continue to wait for the pope to step up. You do not need to do it for him. It does him no favors.
Yes, you are NOT understanding what I am writing...
So you will believe as you want to.
And there is nothing I can write to make sense of it or change your mind.

SO now can we see how people already chose to think what they want?
Can we agree on that much?
 
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