War with China

[Astrid]

A full-on invasion of Taiwan would result in heavy losses for China and the US (if we jumped in). Carriers and troop transports on the bottom of the sea losses. And both sides know it.

I can't see us not defending Taiwan if they ask for it, it has been the deal for decades and they complete the circle of nations we use to keep China in. And it would hurt our reputation internationally with our allies if we don't defend

Taipei has declared itself to be the capital of
the Reoublic of China as of 1949, Taiwan being
an island province. Taiwan is not, never has been a nation.

One China, not two. ( ROC / PRC). That is the policy on
both sides of the strait.

Something as if Hawaii were occupied by a Confederate army with its guydeclared the president of all American states.

China should get involved if Washington finally decided
to settle their civil war v holdouts in Honolulu?

Very few Americans could even find Taiwan on a map.

A few Americans may be aware of the success the USA
has had getting involved in Asian civil wars.

Those have been small weak countries.
China is anything but small and weak.

 

[Paulos23]

Joking, right?

Nope. But even if China did invade Taiwan, it would be costly for them even if the US didn't get involved. They might win, but it would be so costly that they would be better off not invading. This is why they are trying to do the peaceful route, with the occasional saber rattling.

I imagine it is possible in some distant future that Taiwan will join China peacefully. But it would take some major changes in China for that to happen.

 

[Paulos23]

Taipei has declared itself to be the capital of
the Reoublic of China as of 1949, Taiwan being
an island province. Taiwan is not, never has been a nation.

One China, not two. ( ROC / PRC). That is the policy on
both sides of the strait.

Something as if Hawaii were occupied by a Confederate army with its guydeclared the president of all American states.

China should get involved if Washington finally decided
to settle their civil war v holdouts in Honolulu?

Very few Americans could even find Taiwan on a map.

A few Americans may be aware of the success the USA
has had getting involved in Asian civil wars.

Those have been small weak countries.
China is anything but small and weak.

Not disagreeing with most of that. But there is what they say, and what they do. Taiwan has not made any moves to join the rest of China, and China has not done much to convince Taiwan to join the mainland.

And you are forgetting the economic and strategic benefits of Taiwan for the US as it is. Letting it go if China invades would be an expensive and strategic blunder on our part.

 

[Astrid]

Not disagreeing with most of that. But there is what they say, and what they do. Taiwan has not made any moves to join the rest of China, and China has not done much to convince Taiwan to join the mainland.

And you are forgetting the economic and strategic benefits of Taiwan for the US as it is. Letting it go if China invades would be an expensive and strategic blunder on

PRC makes threats, tries to cut the ROC off
from the world, to sabotage and intimidate
any way then can.

ROC cites conditions underwhich they will unify.
Under PRC is not one of them.
Oh, and in 87 I think it was they defunded study of
how to retake the mainland.

Comparisons esp in PRC favour aren't in line with reality.

As for what I'm forgetting, I've been to Taiwan many times,
my family has extensive business connections. Perhaps your opinions are better qualified?

Your assertion about what Biden would do is very
dubious, reTrump, is just ridiculous.
Nobody would profit from such a war.

In the event, China doesn't do Japan style
'" one great battle".


Observe takeover of S China sea for model.

US model is more like " draw red line". But put
wings on it.

If PRC decides to speed things up, a blockade
is the likely start.
Bit they like the long game,.



Launching a nuke over a panama flagged freighter
won't happen.

For now, econimic considerations appear to be foremost for PRC. Status quo works best for all three sides. For now.

 

[Paulos23]

PRC makes threats, tries to cut the ROC off
from the world, to sabotage and intimidate
any way then can.

ROC cites conditions underwhich they will unify.
Under PRC is not one of them.
Oh, and in 87 I think it was they defunded study of
how to retake the mainland.

Comparisons esp in PRC favour aren't in line with reality.

As for what I'm forgetting, I've been to Taiwan many times,
my family has extensive business connections. Perhaps your opinions are better qualified?

Your assertion about what Biden would do is very
dubious, reTrump, is just ridiculous.
Nobody would profit from such a war.

In the event, China doesn't do Japan style
'" one great battle".


Observe takeover of S China sea for model.

US model is more like " draw red line". But put
wings on it.

If PRC decides to speed things up, a blockade
is the likely start.
Bit they like the long game,.



Launching a nuke over a panama flagged freighter
won't happen.

For now, econimic considerations appear to be foremost for PRC. Status quo works best for all three sides. For now.

I agree that the status quo works best for all three sides, and I hope that holds for a long time.

As for Trump, I was talking about what would benefit him personally. All China would have to do is some personal deal he thinks benefits him and Trump would pull out US forces. I agree no one benefits from war, but not everyone thinks that way.

As for the rest, I agree with most of it. Taiwan is part of the US red line, like it or not. But as long as the US agrees to take China's money in trade, I think China will back down from taking Taiwan for a long time.

 

[Astrid]

I agree that the status quo works best for all three sides, and I hope that holds for a long time.

As for Trump, I was talking about what would benefit him personally. All China would have to do is some personal deal he thinks benefits him and Trump would pull out US forces. I agree no one benefits from war, but not everyone thinks that way.

As for the rest, I agree with most of it. Taiwan is part of the US red line, like it or not. But as long as the US agrees to take China's money in trade, I think China will back down from taking Taiwan for a long time.

You're a few points off compass but,
you know, it won't matter.

 

[jacks]

No, we should not go to war with China. Regardless of what happens in Taiwan.

 

[Pommer]

In twenty years Taiwan will beg to be included as a province of China.
There’ll be no “war”.

 

[Astrid]

No, we should not go to war with China. Regardless of what happens in Taiwan.

From my pov, it's we should not go to war with the
USA.
But same difference.

That said it would be a terrif help if America quit
interfering in Chinas internal affairs. A hundred
years and more is enough!!!

We never sent gunboats up your rivers or
otherwise intruded on America.

Taiwan / China is OUR business.

Nobody elses.

 

[Laodicean60]

A hundred
years and more is enough!!!

We never sent gunboats up your rivers or
otherwise intruded on America.

With all due respect. If America didn't interfere you would be speaking Japanese. Did China take that out of your history book like my government is changing to ours? Peace

 

[JustOneWay]

Since we are professional warfighters should we be involved with this if it happens?

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

I am glad I was not the first to question the source.

A professional war-fighter is a member of an army, and most countries have professional war-fighters. America is many things, and yes we do have probably the best army in the world, but that does not make America a professional war-fighting machine. It makes our army the best war-fighting machine.

The article does not even say for a fact that China will invade Taiwan, yet you've taken something that may or may not happen and added another layer of hypothetical on top of the already uncertain "war".

Why do you keep asking other's opinions when you rarely provide your own opinion? Well? Should we be involved.

Now back to Zero Hedge...

U.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian Propaganda​

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Washington (AP) -- U.S. intelligence officials on Tuesday accused a conservative financial news website with a significant American readership of amplifying Kremlin propaganda and alleged five media outlets targeting Ukrainians have taken direction from Russian spies.
The officials said Zero Hedge, which has 1.2 million Twitter followers, published articles created by Moscow-controlled media that were then shared by outlets and people unaware of their nexus to Russian intelligence. The officials did not say whether they thought Zero Hedge knew of any links to spy agencies and did not allege direct links between the website and Russia.


'ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero' - meaning everybody dies. This still is one of the most ridiculous comments trying to be more cerebral than it really is.

U.S. Reportedly Accuses Financial Blog Zero Hedge Of Publishing Russian Propaganda

Controversial financial website Zero Hedge denied allegations from U.S. intelligence officials Tuesday that it has spread Russian propaganda.

www.forbes.com

​

 

[Paulos23]

With all due respect. If America didn't interfere you would be speaking Japanese. Did China take that out of your history book like my government is changing to ours? Peace

We did send gunboats up China's rivers. It was called the Yangtze Patrol (on the Yangtze River) formed to enforce treaties resulting from the Opium Wars in 1854. The US took that over in 1902 until 1949.

There even was a movie about it, The Sand Pebbles, which is how this tickled my memory to look for this history. Which is sad.

 

[JustOneWay]

From my pov, it's we should not go to war with the
USA.
But same difference.

That said it would be a terrif help if America quit
interfering in Chinas internal affairs. A hundred
years and more is enough!!!

We never sent gunboats up your rivers or
otherwise intruded on America.

Taiwan / China is OUR business.

Nobody elses.

'You' did send surveillance balloons over our air space. Just saying...
America has satellites, China has satellites.

Let's not pretend we don't keep a close watch on each other.

 

[Laodicean60]

We did send gunboats up China's rivers. It was called the Yangtze Patrol (on the Yangtze River) formed to enforce treaties resulting from the Opium Wars in 1854. The US took that over in 1902 until 1949.

There even was a movie about it, The Sand Pebbles, which is how this tickled my memory to look for this history. Which is sad.

I will have to watch the movie. I may have as a kid. I have loved martial arts movies since an early age maybe because I'm part Asian. I primarily watch historical movies from the Old Dynasties to the Qing. I love the architecture. Opium was a big problem for China. I know Britain and the French were problematic to the Chinese but were we?
Maybe I'm being a little defensive because of the blame coming my way but in history, I feel America did the Chinese more good than harm. As of the last 30 years, it's two superpowers jocking for position. Both sides are doing underhanded stuff to each other. Peace

 

[Laodicean60]

I am glad I was not the first to question the source.

A professional war-fighter is a member of an army, and most countries have professional war-fighters. America is many things, and yes we do have probably the best army in the world, but that does not make America a professional war-fighting machine. It makes our army the best war-fighting machine.

The article does not even say for a fact that China will invade Taiwan, yet you've taken something that may or may not happen and added another layer of hypothetical on top of the already uncertain "war".

Why do you keep asking other's opinions when you rarely provide your own opinion? Well? Should we be involved.

Now back to Zero Hedge...

U.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian Propaganda​

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Washington (AP) -- U.S. intelligence officials on Tuesday accused a conservative financial news website with a significant American readership of amplifying Kremlin propaganda and alleged five media outlets targeting Ukrainians have taken direction from Russian spies.
The officials said Zero Hedge, which has 1.2 million Twitter followers, published articles created by Moscow-controlled media that were then shared by outlets and people unaware of their nexus to Russian intelligence. The officials did not say whether they thought Zero Hedge knew of any links to spy agencies and did not allege direct links between the website and Russia.


'ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero' - meaning everybody dies. This still is one of the most ridiculous comments trying to be more cerebral than it really is.

U.S. Reportedly Accuses Financial Blog Zero Hedge Of Publishing Russian Propaganda

Controversial financial website Zero Hedge denied allegations from U.S. intelligence officials Tuesday that it has spread Russian propaganda.

www.forbes.com

​

"Since we are professional warfighters should we be involved with this if it happens?" Why do you never answer the questions posed and argue about stuff?

 

[Astrid]

'You' did send surveillance balloons over our air space. Just saying...
America has satellites, China has satellites.

Let's not pretend we don't keep a close watch on each other.

I've heard false equivalence, seen
whataboutism, encountered those who
lack inclination or capacity to comprehend
that any pov but their own.

I don't need more examples.

 

[JustOneWay]

I've heard false equivalence, seen
whataboutism, encountered those who
lack inclination or capacity to comprehend
that any pov but their own.

I don't need more examples.

I understand. You are pretending that America is the aggressor and China is a victim.

Talk about a wrong pov - yours meets the criteria.

 

[Astrid]

With all due respect. If America didn't interfere you would be speaking Japanese. Did China take that out of your history book like my government is changing to ours? Peace

That being less than zero respect, I take it that the
" peace" and phony courtesy are also,as they appear.


China has been invaded a thousand times, and endures yet. The Japanese were already overextended and bogged down in China when they invited the USA to play.


They'd have done a lot more harm if the war had continued but " speak Japanese" is garbage.

I'll assume you know nothing of American interference
in China, else I'll have to think worse of your post.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Zero hedge is a conspiracy mongering website.

This possibility of war with China - and maybe even against Russia too - is being reported pretty much regularly this year. What about answering the question? It's not like he asked what you thought about Martians attacking or something that was completely conspiracy nonsense.

"WASHINGTON, Oct 12 (Reuters) - The United States must prepare for possible simultaneous wars with Russia and China by expanding its conventional forces, strengthening alliances and enhancing its nuclear weapons modernization program, a congressionally appointed bipartisan panel said on Thursday.

The report from the Strategic Posture Commission comes amid tensions with China over Taiwan and other issues and worsening frictions with Russia over its invasion of Ukraine."

US must be ready for simultaneous wars with China, Russia, report says

The United States must prepare for possible simultaneous wars with Russia and China by expanding its conventional forces, strengthening alliances and enhancing its nuclear weapons modernization program, a congressionally appointed bipartisan panel said on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

From two days ago:

General Charles Q. Brown Jr., the highest-ranking officer in the U.S. military, warned in a Sunday interview that everyone should be "worried" about a war with China. (which would begin as invasion of Taiwan, and there are already war ships in the area).
Brown is the 21st and current chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, having taken over the role in October following the retirement of General Mark Milley.

MSN

Biden has already said we will defend Taiwan. Biden says US will defend Taiwan if China attacks

It's a fair question, and I pray it never happens.

 

[Astrid]

I understand. You are pretending that America is the aggressor and China is a victim.

Talk about a wrong pov - yours meets the criteria.

Since you cannot - or deliberately dont- understand
my few and simple words, any pretense you have
of understanding the geopolitics in my back yard
is plainly shown less than nothing.