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What is pulling America Apart?

RDKirk

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No, that's not true.
They put them in detention facilities for months because it takes them that long to work through the process.
That is the process. They aren't allowed to apply for asylum prior to entry to the country.

Not as far as I understand it, asylum seekers don't need to have visas. They just need to show up at the port of entry and ask to make an asylum claim.

Yes, we have border control and customs.
I have a friend from Mali who a few years ago, not long after the revolution in Libya hat killed Khadafi, had to flee his home country because he was marked for death as a Christian pastor. He applied for a tourist visa, and when he got to the US, he applied for asylum.

That was a dicey proposition, because if you are officially denied asylum...you must leave the country immediately and you can never return to the US again, not even as a tourist. Fortunately, he was allowed asylum.
 
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stevil

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That was a dicey proposition, because if you are officially denied asylum...you must leave the country immediately and you can never return to the US again, not even as a tourist. Fortunately, he was allowed asylum.
That's pretty brutal, not allowing you to come even as a tourist. Because you failed an application for asylum, now you are marked as scum, just like rapists and the like and not allowed to visit. Very weird.

I guess they probably have a problem with asylum seekers being denied, then coming as visitors and then overstaying their visa.


Since your friend came on a visa, does that mean he avoided detention? What would have happened if it took longer to get the court case and judgement than the length of his visa stay? Could he have applied for an extension on his visa or would he have had to report to the detention centre?

I wonder if people in detention can apply for a visa? I guess not, because if there is an outstanding asylum claim they are probably worried the person will overstay.
 
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rturner76

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Who do they know to listen to, and how do they necessarily know which communication belongs to that person?

Smart terrorists at least use burner phones and will use a new phone for each instance of critical information. State operations use various rotating-encryption, frequency- and system- hopping networks for classified communication. And I mentioned before, much of their communication is not by a person, but computer-to-computer spurts of encrypted data. That's the difference between COMINT and SIGINT.
Not all terrorists are smart and they don't only target known terrorists. The point is, that they can target whoever they want to under the guise of "terrorist activities." Any man, woman, or child located in the United States can have their communication and internet activities monitored and/or recorded with no warrant or court order. Listening to foreign nationalists in their countries is spying 101 but listening to American citizens' conversations, tracing their emails, and internet activity with no warrant is a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment.
That's why the NSA attempts to collect everything--within their technological capabilities--and analyze it all afterwards. A terrorist's new burner phone line isn't going to be discovered by "keywords" because he's too smart for that. And even if it were to be discovered by keywords, the communication through that new device must still be already recorded even though it hasn't been linked to anyone yet. But the new line will be linked to him by technological means that I'm not going into right here and now (although they've certainly been improved since my personal "information cut-off date").
Again, collecting everything on whomever they can in the United States is a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment. That is why I maintain that the Patriot act has sidestepped our nation's Constitution.
 
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RDKirk

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Not all terrorists are smart and they don't only target known terrorists. The point is, that they can target whoever they want to under the guise of "terrorist activities." Any man, woman, or child located in the United States can have their communication and internet activities monitored and/or recorded with no warrant or court order. Listening to foreign nationalists in their countries is spying 101 but listening to American citizens' conversations, tracing their emails, and internet activity with no warrant is a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment.

Again, collecting everything on whomever they can in the United States is a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment. That is why I maintain that the Patriot act has sidestepped our nation's Constitution.
The NSA has always operated by collecting everything and then winnowing it down. It only becomes a violation of the Fourth Amendment when they narrow the search down to a specific person by specific identifying characteristics, such as name or SSN. When that is about to happen, then they need a warrant. There is a caveat that if the technological means would collect information only on American persons, then it would be disallowed. But that applies only to a few situations.

I'm sorry if you don't like that, but that's the way it is.
 
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rturner76

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Well due process is definitely a right
Which The Patriot Act violates.

These are prisoners at Guantanamo Bay if I'm not mistaken. These aren't criminal jails or criminal courts....these are considered prisoners of war.
When there is a war, it is voted on by Congress and it is against a specific country. We haven't declared war on American citizens.
For the most part...yes. I tend to find that extreme critics of the US justice system don't typically have a justice system they would prefer.
I would prefer a justice system in which the amount of money one has or their race is not a factor in the dispensation of justice
What's our right here? I'm not a terrorist.
Also many "detainees" aren't terrorists, they just have an Arabic name.
Winning an election would be my guess.

I don't see much point in speculation. There was speculation of nuclear war last time he ran. I think fears about Trump crowning himself dictator are no less silly.
By Trump praising the work of dictators, it would seem that he would attempt to implement their tactics in the USA.
If they could prosecute him for incitement, they would. Given that they aren't...that should tell you something.
Maybe it wan't incitement. It was instruction. He told them to storm the capital and they did.

Besides, we already have a president who is trying to openly discriminate against people like me for being white men....in business loans, college acceptance, job opportunities, etc. I made a thread about it.
How can he accomplish that with the Civil Rights Act? Could it be that he is working to give others an opportunity who are not white males?
Besides, the American people are destroying people's lives for stating an opinion they disagree with on Twitter....demanding those people lose their jobs. The American people burned down and looted more small businesses out of existence than I can count.
How can someone's actual lif be destroyed by comments on social media? It's words. Mostly it's people who make racist, sexist, or homophobic comments that get a backlash on social media.
1. There's a record number of kids in cages under Biden....more than all the kids under Trump and Obama combined.
2. The Biden administration has handed these children over to human smuggling cartels operating in the US.
3. The NYT did an expose on the explosion of child labor in the US under Biden because of this...yet I bet you don't hear about any employers getting arrested for child labor.


The best description of Biden's immigration policy is modern day slavery. The best thing that could happen to these children is getting deported.
citation? Joe Biden personally handing over children to human traffickers seems a bit conspiracy theory IMO.
Why would the cartels waste any tunnels on migrants? Why risk losing the ability to smuggle drugs into the US by sending thousands of people through the tunnels?

They can just drop those people over the border and they're in.
Only cartels dig tunnels? Human trafficking is big business. A wall is completely ineffective when it comes to bringing people or products into the United States. The whole concept is a joke and it will stop absolutely nothing. Especially considering most contraband passes through borders through corrupt officials. Maybe you think there is absolutely no corruption in border control when billions of dollars are at stake.
Other than the fantasy scenarios you're imagining....there's literally nothing you've listed that isn't already happening or worse under Biden.
I've never heard Joe Biden openly support the work of dictators.

Are we talking about the press that squashed legitimate stories about laptops thanks to help from the Biden campaign?
I don't know about that but I'm pretty sure the President doesn't order the assassinations of free members of the press.
Then what's the problem?

Biden literally exused genocide in China as a "cultural norm".

You're reading into Trump’s statements looking for things that aren't even said...

And you ignore the current president literally excusing genocide as a "cultural norm".
Did he excuse it or explain why they do it?
What does this have to do with anything? The Patriot Act happened under Bush, the torture and drone striking of terrorists happened under Bush and Obama.

Trump ended a war.

Biden now has us funding 2 new wars.
Trump ended the funding of our Troops. Biden actually called the troops home.
Sheeple? Didn't you spend 4 years swallowing every line of nonsense that BLM spewed while they raked in millions of donations and never helped a single black person? Didn't you defend the fact that they did billions of dollars of damage to black communities that will last for years?

Not sure you're in any position to call anyone sheeple.
I didn't "swallow" anything, I stood up for their right to protest.
He seems to have believed he was cheated out of an election win. Given the coordination of the FBI, social media, conventional media, and the Biden campaign....it's an understandable belief.

That's not the same as "trying set up a dictatorship".
Was it even proven he was cheated out of anything in the multiple court cases he initiated all over the country? Did he not attempt to get the Electoral College to vote against the results of a legitimate election? Did he not turn against the Vice President for ratifying the legal results of the public vote and the vote of the Electoral College? Oh wait, he FELT LIKE he was cheated. Does that give him the right to stay President when he was voted out? If he were to be made President in that case, isn't that pretty much the definition of dictatorship? Making yourself President when the general population and the elected government have voted you out is pretty much the exact definition of dictatorship.
Well aren't you concerned that Biden's excusing of genocide as a cultural norm, his repeated attempts to violate civil rights and anti-discrimination laws, and his endless attempts to remove political opponents through relentless prosecution, the fact that he lost track of 85,000 children while child labor and human smuggling have exploded under his watch, all while he's involved the US in the funding and support two new wars....

Not to mention Biden has almost certainly committed or helped commit a war crime by selling cluster bombs to the Ukraine. Check out our stance on the pipelines before they were blown up...
I don't know that any of this is true. I think cutting off energy resources to a nation is fundamental in war.
Seems like even if we weren't involved, we could have prevented it.

Don't these issues cause you to worry about the totalitarian nature of the Biden administration? Doesn't the child labor and medical experimentation on children smack of 3rd world dictator tactics?
How could we have prevented the war in the Ukraine? It sounds like a typical right-winger attempt to blame Biden for everything we don't like.
 
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rturner76

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The NSA has always operated by collecting everything and then winnowing it down. It only becomes a violation of the Fourth Amendment when they narrow the search down to a specific person by specific identifying characteristics, such as name or SSN. When that is about to happen, then they need a warrant. There is a caveat that if the technological means would collect information only on American persons, then it would be disallowed. But that applies only to a few situations.

I'm sorry if you don't like that, but that's the way it is.
What I don't like is collecting the personal information of Americans with no warrant. I'm sorry if you DON'T like it but we have a Fourth Ammendment.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Which The Patriot Act violates.

Well if it violates anything it's the 4th amendment...not due process. Still, I'm fairly certain that some processes are followed in the procurement of warrants.


When there is a war, it is voted on by Congress and it is against a specific country. We haven't declared war on American citizens.

We have a war on terror that runs 24/7/365 bud.


I would prefer a justice system in which the amount of money one has or their race is not a factor in the dispensation of justice.

I would too...but like many things in life, you get what you pay for.

You know what made me feel better about it? The Depp/Heard case. Watching those undoubtedly extremely expensive lawyers Mrs. Heard hired do so poorly that it was laughable to watch made me realize that it's not just someone who can't afford a good lawyer who gets destroyed by the justice system...often, someone who can afford a good lawyer gets destroyed too.




Also many "detainees" aren't terrorists, they just have an Arabic name.

I'm not sure how you would know that.

By Trump praising the work of dictators, it would seem that he would attempt to implement their tactics in the USA.

By that logic, Biden dismissing genocide in China as a cultural norm would seem that he's willing to dismiss genocide here in the US as a cultural norm.

Or you can just accept that as politicians, sometimes the job requires pretending to like someone you don't like.



Maybe it wan't incitement. It was instruction. He told them to storm the capital and they did.

Do you have a quote?


How can he accomplish that with the Civil Rights Act? Could it be that he is working to give others an opportunity who are not white males?

Well the Civil Rights Act prevents discrimination based on race.

Since equality under the law protects me as well as you, discrimination against "white males" because they are white or male is fundamentally a deprivation of civil rights.


How can someone's actual lif be destroyed by comments on social media? It's words. Mostly it's people who make racist, sexist, or homophobic comments that get a backlash on social media.

I wish people would stop pretending that cancel culture isn't a real thing.

Consider this...


An AI that was programmed to try and be funny was canceled for "transphobic jokes". Fortunately comedians with considerable clout and privilege like Dave Chappelle are much harder to cancel...

But the idea that a computer program that was designed to be funny was removed from the internet for trying to be funny is possibly the most insane example of cancel culture that I can think of.

Just be honest...if you support people going after the jobs of other people they disagree with, because of an opinion they said, just explain why? I'm genuinely curious why anyone would support this to the point of excusing it and pretending it's not happening.


citation? Joe Biden personally handing over children to human traffickers seems a bit conspiracy theory IMO.

I can link you the testimony of the whistleblower for HHS, the department that places these children, and she cites a vast amount of both 1st person experience and statistical data.

The fact these children have ended up illegally employed by the thousands should be evidence enough that it's happening though.



Only cartels dig tunnels?

Along the US Mexico border? Yes. They employ thousands of murderers to extort and ransom these unsuspecting migrants. They fight over small sections of the border that are particularly lucrative. If you think some "3rd party" is willing to cross the sinaloa cartel for example....to build a tunnel and push illegals through...they you aren't aware of the tactics of fear and intimidation these cartels use. They dip people in acid, alive. They dismember opponents completely and leave their body parts in neat little piles.

There's few people in the Mexico government willing to cross the cartels.


A wall is completely ineffective when it comes to bringing people or products into the United States.

A mentally unstable man tried to rush the white house under Biden and failed because of the physical barriers that stopped his van and the armed guards who apprehended him.

I'm not sure why the concept of walls is a struggle for you. Surely your home has walls. Without them, your family and possessions would be extremely difficult to protect. Do they stop a determined intruder entirely? Of course not. The idea that they don't aid in preventing that intruder's entry though is silly.


Especially considering most contraband passes through borders through corrupt officials.

Do you have a citation for that?

Logically, there wouldn't be any need for tunnels if bribing officials were so easy.

I'm sure there's some corrupt officials. Any sufficiently large group will inevitably have them. I've seen nothing to indicate they are responsible for the majority of contraband entering the US though...and I doubt you have either.



I've never heard Joe Biden openly support the work of dictators.

I quoted Biden excusing genocide in China as a cultural norm.



I don't know about that but I'm pretty sure the President doesn't order the assassinations of free members of the press.

The president of China 100% punishes members of the press that are critical of the Chinese government....and they have so for years. Even billionaires aren't safe from being "disappeared" in China. In China, even the average citizen who is in any way critical of the government is subject to severe punishment and as a result, social isolation and ostracization.

It's similar to cancel culture...except it's done directly by the government and not through intermediaries like social media or traditional media.

Did he excuse it or explain why they do it?

He excused it....as a cultural norm.

I don't know what sort of distinction you're trying to draw here. If Trump excused throwing members of the press out of windows in Russia as a cultural norm....I don't think you'd be asking me if he "excused it or explained it."

And from what you've shown...Trump hasn't said anything so egregious.

He simply said things like "I like Putin". Do you have him stating that he approves of throwing members of the press out of windows?




Trump ended the funding of our Troops. Biden actually called the troops home.

No...the deal brokered with the Taliban to exit Afghanistan was done under Trump.


"The Trump administration in February 2020 negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban that excluded the Afghan government, freed 5,000 imprisoned Taliban soldiers and set a date certain of May 1, 2021, for the final withdrawal.
And the Trump administration kept to the pact, reducing U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500, even though the Taliban continued to attack Afghan government forces and welcomed al-Qaeda terrorists into the Taliban leadership."



I don't know what sources you're reading, but you're just wrong about this one. Trump made the deal...and while he was in office, the withdrawal went smoothly. When Biden took over, he failed to listen to both advisors who said he couldn't delay the process....which he did anyway....and failed to hold up to the withdrawal agreement. This led to the embarrassing retreat from Afghanistan.

Those are the facts.

I didn't "swallow" anything, I stood up for their right to protest.

Oh come on...we've all seen the fruits of their efforts.

They started off protesting the shooting of unarmed black men by white cops...then shootings by all cops regardless of race....then their narrative that the white cops were racist changed to all cops are implicitly racist, and when that fell apart....the even more vague claim of "systemic racism" in policing. All to keep the donations flowing in...all to keep selling t-shirts....all to cash in on the ginned up outrage over a handful of shootings by police. In the end, they were proposing the complete abolishing of police as a solution....and lots of suckers didn't just support this, they demanded it.

They raised 92 million dollars, bought themselves some mansions, and retired having successfully scammed about half the country with the help of a complicit media and gullible political left. The Democrats won the presidential election and suddenly....you don't hear about black men gunned down by police anymore do you?

It's not like it's stopped....it's not even as if it's slowed down. Stats indicate it's about the same as ever. Democrats did nothing to solve or even help this "problem" because any solutions proposed backfired immediately and were no longer popular. Did they take those first two years when they controlled both the House and Senate and do anything for black people?

The sad thing is no. And why would they? They got your vote. They moved millions of illegals into poor neighborhoods in Chicago and NYC that are largely black...and put them up in hotels. They gave these people who arrived here yesterday food and housing....while homeless black people are on the streets.

This sad scene played out last week and it perfectly explains the situation.


Free Thanksgiving meals meant for poor, and largely black, NY residents got eaten by illegals first....leaving many black US citizens hungry.

You voted these people in and they put you dead last. They gave total strangers who cut and run whenever things get tough in their nations food, housing, and now they want to get them jobs. They're doing it in the same neighborhoods where black people have been struggling for years....where black people are homeless on the streets.

I don't have to convince you that you've been played. If the fact that you've been shorn like a sheep doesn't show you what they think of you...then there's clearly nothing I can say that would convince you.

After all, I'm just a white man whose opinion doesn't matter, right?


Was it even proven he was cheated out of anything in the multiple court cases he initiated all over the country?

No...not that I recall.



Did he not attempt to get the Electoral College to vote against the results of a legitimate election?

I don't know if those decisions were made by him or by his supporters without his knowledge.



Did he not turn against the Vice President for ratifying the legal results of the public vote and the vote of the Electoral College?

I vaguely recall him saying some unkind things about Pence.



Oh wait, he FELT LIKE he was cheated.

Right. It's something that happens quite a lot in our elections. Stacy Abrams fought the results of her election loss for years despite a total lack of evidence she was cheated.

A reasonable person might see this as an indication that our election process needs updated in a manner that increases confidence in the results by implementing some kind of uniform standards for voting in state and federal elections.



Does that give him the right to stay President when he was voted out?

Well technically he's president for multiple weeks after an election loss....the new president doesn't take office immediately after the election.

Surely you knew that?




If he were to be made President in that case, isn't that pretty much the definition of dictatorship?

No. We have this thing called the "separation of powers". A dictator would have to also take over the House, Senate, and Supreme Court of the United States to be dictator. I would also point out he would need the backing of the entire military, since they are obligated to defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

I can genuinely understand why you might have concerns about a Trump dictatorship. The left wing media has been beating that drum since the last election. It's propaganda...nothing more. They know that they haven't done anything for the black community despite so many promises....and rationally, there's no read to believe a second Biden term will be any better. I watch left wing political pundits....I've heard the rhetoric.

The reality is that there wasn't any threat of a Trump dictatorship in 2020....and there isn't any such threat now. They've thrown every charge they could dream up at this man to smear his name and prevent him from running. Remember where this started....they claimed that he was a Russian plant. That Putin had some embarrassing dirt on him and he was in Putin’s pocket. It turned out to be all lies. Now? Now they claim that his condo in NY is only worth 150 million dollars despite him claiming its worth 190 million. Who's the victim here? Some huge bank that gave him a loan?

Perhaps they have some actual evidence of wrongdoing that they can justify Trump's prosecution on....but if so, they should have focused on that instead of this strategy of throwing every accusation at the wall and seeing what sticks. It stinks of political persecution. The kind of tactic employed by dictators....and something completely disgraceful in a democracy.



I don't know that any of this is true. I think cutting off energy resources to a nation is fundamental in war.

If you want evidence that selling, providing, or using cluster bombs is a war crime I can link you evidence.

But don't ask if you aren't going to read it.


How could we have prevented the war in the Ukraine? It sounds like a typical right-winger attempt to blame Biden for everything we don't like.

We didn't have to get involved. We were war free for almost a whole year. The Democrats seem determined to flush taxpayer dollars down the toilet in losing wars. Biden's current stance, if you aren't aware, is that the Ukraine should negotiate a peace....implying this administration no longer believes in victory. That won't get us back all the money wasted....and worse for the Ukrainians....lives lost.

Makes one wonder why we did this at all....you know, aside from jumping on the opportunity to make the military-industrial complex vast amounts of profits.
 
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A2SG

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I wish people would stop pretending that cancel culture isn't a real thing.

Consider this...


An AI that was programmed to try and be funny was canceled for "transphobic jokes". Fortunately comedians with considerable clout and privilege like Dave Chappelle are much harder to cancel...

But the idea that a computer program that was designed to be funny was removed from the internet for trying to be funny is possibly the most insane example of cancel culture that I can think of.

Just be honest...if you support people going after the jobs of other people they disagree with, because of an opinion they said, just explain why? I'm genuinely curious why anyone would support this to the point of excusing it and pretending it's not happening.
I'm not going to comment on the majority of your post, but I did want to touch on this specific example of something that is pulling America apart....

If you say that "cancel culture" is a real thing, what, exactly, is it? Is it some monolithic agency that sits every so often and decides who to cancel this week? Is it some government agency that decides it?

No.

All "cancel culture" is is individuals using their freedom of speech. Period.

If some people felt Johnny Depp, Gina Carano or James Gunn said or did something they didn't like, they complained about it. That's all. They had no power to do anything beyond that.

Now, if the people they complain about, Disney in those three instances, feel something needs to be done, that's up to them. Some large entertainment companies, in particular, are dependent upon their productions being popular, so they might feel the unpopularity of a star might impact their ticket sales, and they decide to fire that performer. Or not. Or maybe they decide to fire them, and then reverse that decision later on. Either way, that's their decision, and theirs alone. No one is requiring them or forcing them to do any of it.

So, object to "cancel culture" if you like...but what you're objecting to is the exercise of free speech.

-- A2SG, which, for some people, is only a problem when it's something they disagree with.....
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm not going to comment on the majority of your post, but I did want to touch on this specific example of something that is pulling America apart....

Ok.


If you say that "cancel culture" is a real thing, what, exactly, is it? Is it some monolithic agency that sits every so often and decides who to cancel this week? Is it some government agency that decides it?

I think that's a fair question. When I refer to it, I'm talking about a mob of people seeking extrajudicial punishment of someone...typically by getting them fired....for reasons that don't have anything to do with their job and everything to do with the character of the people seeking to cancel someone.

The example I gave is particularly absurd....because it's a computer program trying to tell jokes. If you don't find it funny, if you don't want your family exposed to it, if it genuinely does offend you, the simple solution is to just turn it off or block the website.

Problem solved.

Here's another rather extreme example.


This guy did absolutely nothing wrong. His wife posted some political opinions online that weren't popular...but not illegal. She's entitled to them, regardless of whether or not I agree.

The problem this posed for the mob trying to cancel her was that she lacked a job to be canceled from. She couldn't be punished for her opinions.

So the mob went after her husband's job. They got him fired from a professional soccer team.

There's honestly more examples than I can count, but if you still don't understand what I mean, and I'm sure you do....but if you insist you don't, I'll gladly provide more examples.


All "cancel culture" is is individuals using their freedom of speech.

I have absolutely no problem with people using their "freedom of speech". If someone says something you disagree with....and you want to tell them...I actually encourage you to do so.

The behaviour that is the problem, and pay attention to this part, is the attempt to ruin someone's life by getting them fired, which I see as wrong.

These people don't respect freedom of speech, they are authoritarian fascists at heart....and more importantly, absolute cowards. The irony of how much this nation resents police who have been given authority to put criminals into the real justice system, where they'll be presumed innocent and judged by a jury of their peer....yet excuses the overly fragile, cowardly mob, drunk on the tiniest bit of power they get by collectively seeking to punish people who have done nothing more than state their opinion....are the lowest of the low. Pathetic scum.

I think the simple solution would be make these people liable for the damages they cause. If you join a group demanding the firing of a person who disagrees with you politically....and succeed....then your identity and through your IP address should be obtainable from whatever platform you used and your victim should be able to sue you for damages.


Since the rest of your post had nothing to do with mine...and was based on your false assumptions about my position, so I just deleted it as it wasn't needed.

 
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A2SG

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Ok.

I think that's a fair question. When I refer to it, I'm talking about a mob of people seeking extrajudicial punishment of someone...typically by getting them fired....for reasons that don't have anything to do with their job and everything to do with the character of the people seeking to cancel someone.
And what method do they use to attain this goal?

They exercise their right to free speech.

The example I gave is particularly absurd....because it's a computer program trying to tell jokes. If you don't find it funny, if you don't want your family exposed to it, if it genuinely does offend you, the simple solution is to just turn it off or block the website.

Problem solved.
Sure. Some people feel strong enough about the issue, though, to say something about it. Which they have the right to do, no?

Here's another rather extreme example.


This guy did absolutely nothing wrong. His wife posted some political opinions online that weren't popular...but not illegal. She's entitled to them, regardless of whether or not I agree.
And the people who posted their disagreement to her opinions are also entitled to their views, aren't they?

The problem this posed for the mob trying to cancel her was that she lacked a job to be canceled from. She couldn't be punished for her opinions.

So the mob went after her husband's job. They got him fired from a professional soccer team.
How did they do that, exactly?

There's honestly more examples than I can count, but if you still don't understand what I mean, and I'm sure you do....but if you insist you don't, I'll gladly provide more examples.
So far, all the examples you've presented are exactly what I said they were: people exercising their right to free speech.

I have absolutely no problem with people using their "freedom of speech". If someone says something you disagree with....and you want to tell them...I actually encourage you to do so.
Then you should have no problem with "cancel culture," because that's all it is.

The behaviour that is the problem, and pay attention to this part, is the attempt to ruin someone's life by getting them fired, which I see as wrong.
And how, exactly, are they doing that?

These people don't respect freedom of speech, they are authoritarian fascists at heart....and more importantly, absolute cowards. The irony of how much this nation resents police who have been given authority to put criminals into the real justice system, where they'll be presumed innocent and judged by a jury of their peer....yet excuses the overly fragile, cowardly mob, drunk on the tiniest bit of power they get by collectively seeking to punish people who have done nothing more than state their opinion....are the lowest of the low. Pathetic scum.
You're free to express that opinion. Just as someone else would be if they disagreed with you...even if they expressed the opinion that you should be fired. Don't forget, they can't actually fire you, that'd be up to your employer.

I think the simple solution would be make these people liable for the damages they cause. If you join a group demanding the firing of a person who disagrees with you politically....and succeed....then your identity and through your IP address should be obtainable from whatever platform you used and your victim should be able to sue you for damages.
What if they didn't join a group? What if they are just individuals who share the opinions with a large number of other individuals? Do you plan to dox every one of them?

Also, what gives you the right to access someone's private IP address information?

And further, I think trying to make the legal case that a large number of people expressing the opinion that someone should be fired constitutes libel might be a difficult case to make. Unless there's some other cause of action you had in mind there.

Since the rest of your post had nothing to do with mine...and was based on your false assumptions about my position, so I just deleted it as it wasn't needed.
What false assumptions about your position did I make? The only one I know of is my assumption that you objected to "cancel culture." And that seems correct, far as I can tell.

-- A2SG, still can't find anything else that you object to here, other than others using their right to free speech.....
 
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RDKirk

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No. We have this thing called the "separation of powers". A dictator would have to also take over the House, Senate, and Supreme Court of the United States to be dictator. I would also point out he would need the backing of the entire military, since they are obligated to defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.
Well, something about that....

The "Constitution" is what two of the three Branches says it is.

If the president manages, by hook or crook, to get the Supreme Court and the Congress to kowtow to his actions, the hands of the military would be tied.
 
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Desk trauma

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Where do the bots and paid humans whose purpose is to patrol forums and defend the 'official' narrative come into play?
In your imagination, where they originated.
 
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stevil

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/The behaviour that is the problem, and pay attention to this part, is the attempt to ruin someone's life by getting them fired, which I see as wrong.
Racists seem to be getting a hard time lately. I can see why some people are worried about that.

On the other hand. Many organisations from a commercial standpoint need to deeply concerned about their reputation and standing within society, if they are associated with out and out racists it not only conflicts with their own organisation principles and their reputation and standing in society, but it can also negatively impact their financial position. It seems they need to make a choice, do they stand behind their principles and their reputation and value as being an organisation that supports and adds value to society or do they stand by the rights of people associated with them to use their first amendment right of free speech to spread messages of hate and discrimination.

The organisation of course has their own right of free speech to support their principles, reputation and brand and have the right to break ties with people they no longer feel they can be associated with.

It's a hard time to be racist in USA. Quite disappointing for them, given all the hope Trump had been bringing but maybe, if he gets his second term, he can make it illegal for companies and organisations to fire people based on anti discrimination.
I wonder if these anti "cancel culture" people will take to the streets to peacefully protest "racists lives matter"?
 
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RDKirk

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Racists seem to be getting a hard time lately. I can see why some people are worried about that.

On the other hand. Many organisations from a commercial standpoint need to deeply concerned about their reputation and standing within society, if they are associated with out and out racists it not only conflicts with their own organisation principles and their reputation and standing in society, but it can also negatively impact their financial position. It seems they need to make a choice, do they stand behind their principles and their reputation and value as being an organisation that supports and adds value to society or do they stand by the rights of people associated with them to use their first amendment right of free speech to spread messages of hate and discrimination.

The organisation of course has their own right of free speech to support their principles, reputation and brand and have the right to break ties with people they no longer feel they can be associated with.

It's a hard time to be racist in USA. Quite disappointing for them, given all the hope Trump had been bringing but maybe, if he gets his second term, he can make it illegal for companies and organisations to fire people based on anti discrimination.
I wonder if these anti "cancel culture" people will take to the streets to peacefully protest "racists lives matter"?
Having been a black man in America for 70 years, I'm more concerned right now with the social effect of attempting to eliminate racists than I am with the social effects of the racists themselves.

Back when we marched for Civil Rights and then the Civil Rights Act, we did not expect to eliminate racists. We never expected there would be racists one day and no racists the next day. We never expected racists to celebrate Juneteenth. We never expected racists to support Negro History Week. We wanted the law to decree and the government to enforce black people having the same civil rights that the racists had.

This difference is very important, because we did not intend or expect the government to control the thoughts of racists or anyone else. Re-educating people, forcing people to think a certain way, oppressing people who did not think the way we wanted was not on our agenda.

That's because, at the time, we were free thinkers ourselves, and we did not trust the government to be the arbiter of "proper" thought. Racists could be racist...as long as government prevented them from effecting a racist agenda. Go after people for what they do, not for what they think. Not long ago, that was the liberal agenda.

Today the agenda is not civil rights, it's actually the control of thought, the changing of people's heads...re-education. In this, the right wing is less scary than the left wing.
 
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Bradskii

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Today the agenda is not civil rights, it's actually the control of thought, the changing of people's heads...re-education. In this, the right wing is less scary than the left wing.
Well, here's choice maybe I have to make. I'm having a barbie. Lots of people over. Friends of friends as well. And one of them is talking about Chinese people is a very derogatory way. And my mate is there with his Chinese wife. Neither of them hear his comments. But I do. So what do I do?

I'll tell you. I re-educate him. I give him a few choice comments and then to make sure he gets the message I tell him to get his racist butt out of my house. That's cancel culture. I've just cancelled any right he thought he had to mouth off like that in my company.

Simple really.
 
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