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Controversial Teddy B ear Teachings

rambot

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Could you elaborate as to how they're wrong and what conclusion can be drawn from that? That would be the starting point of the position you're maintaining, providing a foundation to be agreed or disagreed upon.
Sure.

See. There are people who do not think that gender is a social construct.

And they are wrong.

It's really weird and a bit misguided to expect me to elaborate how "they" are wrong when you don't explain who "they" are or what EXACTLY they believe. Is...is this thr first time trying to challenge someone to appropriately support their arguments?

All of this kinda stuff is crazy simple. You pick up a dictionary or two...maybe grab a sociology text book....go to a national mental health website. The information is there. Don't listen to how Ben Shapiro defines gender cause he likely doesn't know himself. Go to the people who StUDY and research the topic.

Look at basically all of these sites...what is gender - Google Search
I'm a little curious to see how wackadoo your algorithms will affect your results because when I do that search 100% of the sources use the phrase "social construct" or a clear substitute, to define gender.
 
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A2SG

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And do you know how many genders there are supposed to be and what they're called and the various combinations thereof?
It might help to think of gender as a spectrum, rather than a rigid set of unique definitions. Think of the most masculine ideal on one end, the most feminine ideal on the other. People can fit anywhere in between those extremes. They are, of course, free to call their particular gender identity whatever they like.

Does that make it easier?

-- A2SG, it comes with the added benefit of having far less terms to memorize....
 
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ozso

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Did you notice that in Genesis it doesn't say "God made them male and female, and nothing else"? Also, we would agree that God made all animals and plants, right? Including snails and fish and other creatures that express sexual fluidity, yes?

I don't think you have a biblical argument, I think you have a personal opinion that you want to force upon Scripture in order to create a semblance of divine authority.

The natural order of creation presents us with a deep complexity of living things. Human beings, as part of the natural order, are very likely to also be complex.

Scripture never says "there is only male and female". That isn't a biblical claim. It is also a claim that is contrary to observed reality where it is obvious that not everyone and everything fits.

If we take the Bible seriously, if we take God's Revelation of Himself in Jesus Christ seriously, if we take our religion seriously, how can we ever justify turning toward our neighbor and say, "Your existence is wrong, you shouldn't exist."?

And that is exactly what is happening. "You shouldn't exist". It's not saying "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", it's saying, "You are, yourself, wrong, a mistake, something that shouldn't exist." That's not calling sin sin, that is itself sinful--it is denying in my neighbor the Divine Image. And what does Scripture say about this?

"So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.

How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! And the tongue is a fire, a world of injustice. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, or reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth comes blessing and cursing. My brothers, this should not be so.
" - James 3:5-10

And concerning the Divine Commandments of God, what has the Apostle written?

"For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by another." - Galatians 5:13-15

To despise my neighbor is not of God, that is my flesh. That is the "law of sin that dwells in my members" (Romans 7:23).

Here is a gross distortion and perversion: That we who have been called out of the darkness and into the marvelous light of Christ, to deny our flesh, take up our cross and follow Christ should betray Him, and fight against the Holy Spirit, by doubling down in our flesh to despise others, to treat others with cruelty, to hold grudges, to slander, and to think evil thoughts of others in our hearts.

Thus the finger of condemnation turns toward us, and the Law condemns us as sinners. Telling us to repent, to confess our sins. St. John reminding us, "If we say we have no sin then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, but if we confess our sin then God is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Great is our sin.
Greater still is God's grace.

The Penitential Prayer:
"Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against You in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved You with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of Your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in Your will, and walk in Your ways, to the glory of Your Name. Amen."

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

-CryptoLutheran
Scripture makes it clear that God created us male and female and that the male and female are to become husband and wife and produce children. And anything outside of that is perversion. Which is why only that Godly construct has been expectable in Old Testament Judaism and New Testament Christianity. One can go ahead and go with the secular humanistic rendering of scripture to facilitate LGBTQQIP2SAA+, but it's pure heresy that puts people on the broad road to destruction.
 
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ozso

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It's worth adding Matthew 19, which appears to reinforce what you are stating. In talking about divorce, Christ makes the oft quote statement, "4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’". Of course, what gets left behind is verse 12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven."
Is there a conclusion to that? Like of course that verse gets left behind because......
 
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ozso

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Sure.

See. There are people who do not think that gender is a social construct.

And they are wrong.

It's really weird and a bit misguided to expect me to elaborate how "they" are wrong when you don't explain who "they" are or what EXACTLY they believe. Is...is this thr first time trying to challenge someone to appropriately support their arguments?

All of this kinda stuff is crazy simple. You pick up a dictionary or two...maybe grab a sociology text book....go to a national mental health website. The information is there. Don't listen to how Ben Shapiro defines gender cause he likely doesn't know himself. Go to the people who StUDY and research the topic.

Look at basically all of these sites...what is gender - Google Search
I'm a little curious to see how wackadoo your algorithms will affect your results because when I do that search 100% of the sources use the phrase "social construct" or a clear substitute, to define gender.
When you said 'they are wrong' I thought you were saying social constructs are wrong.

As I've pointed out in this thread, I've already read up on transgender ideology from the horse's mouth.
 
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A2SG

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As I've pointed out in this thread, I've already read up on transgender ideology from the horse's mouth.
Well, to be fair, A horse's mouth. There really isn't one single ideology for everyone who considers themselves transgender. Different people can view things differently a lot of the time.

Individuals are like that sometimes.

-- A2SG, that's why it's probably for the best to let people define themselves, rather than have you do it for them....
 
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rambot

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Scripture makes it clear that God created us male and female and that the male and female are to become husband and wife and produce children. And anything outside of that is perversion. Which is why only that Godly construct has been expectable in Old Testament Judaism and New Testament Christianity. One can go ahead and go with the secular humanistic rendering of scripture to facilitate LGBTQQIP2SAA+, but it's pure heresy that puts people on the broad road to destruction.
[Bold is My emphasis]. I think the eunuchs previously cited would begin to differ with your appraisal.
When you said 'they are wrong' I thought you were saying social constructs are wrong.

As I've pointed out in this thread, I've already read up on transgender ideology from the horse's mouth.
OK. So we're on the same page of what gender means and that it is a social construct?
 
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rambot

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When you said 'they are wrong' I thought you were saying social constructs are wrong.

As I've pointed out in this thread, I've already read up on transgender ideology from the horse's mouth.
Well I'm certain you didn't read it feom a horse...I'm curious which sources informed your opinion?
 
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ozso

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[Bold is My emphasis]. I think the eunuchs previously cited would begin to differ with your appraisal.
I'm really interested in hearing what the correlation is supposed to be.
OK. So we're on the same page of what gender means and that it is a social construct?
I understand what you're talking about, but I still don't know what your therefore conclusion is.
 
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ozso

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Well I'm certain you didn't read it feom a horse...I'm curious which sources informed your opinion?
Sources established by or that promote LGBTQQIP2SAA+. As a matter of fact that's where I learned the acronym "LGBTQQIP2SAA+" from. That's what from the horse's mouth means.
 
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Pommer

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And do you know how many genders there are supposed to be and what they're called and the various combinations thereof?
Why is it so important to you there there are more genders than the two that you‘re comfortable with?
 
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Pommer

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Sources established by or that promote LGBTQQIP2SAA+. As a matter of fact that's where I learned the acronym "LGBTQQIP2SAA+" from. That's what from the horse's mouth means.
Freedom means the ability to believe things that might not “be so” without social repercussions from the “reality police”.
 
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ozso

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Freedom means the ability to believe things that might not “be so” without social repercussions from the “reality police”.
I'm wondering how up to speed you are on this.
 
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ozso

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Freedom means the ability to believe things that might not “be so” without social repercussions from the “reality police”.
There sure are a lot of open ended statements with no conclusion being made in this thread.
 
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Pommer

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There sure are a lot of open ended statements with no conclusion being made in this thread.
I’ve been on the internet since before there was an internet; I’ve seen maybe three discussions that have led to a satisfying conclusion after vigorous and lively debate.

Parts≠gender, that’s the crux of this issue.
 
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ozso

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I’ve been on the internet since before there was an internet; I’ve seen maybe three discussions that have led to a satisfying conclusion after vigorous and lively debate.
I'm not talking about a final conclusion. I'm talking about one open ended statement after another.
Parts≠gender, that’s the crux of this issue.
Like that one.
 
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DaisyDay

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No, of course not every book. But just off the top of my head, I know that Dragon Masters recently had a nonbinary character, and the latest Wild Robot book that just came out (#3) has a fish that changes gender and a whole digression about how the robot main character isn't really female but is "programmed" to feel that way ... I'm sure there are others. As I said in an earlier comment, these led to some unexpected and challenging conversations at bedtime ...

My son spent a lot of his early life visiting doctors and having procedures and hospital stays. In trying to find books to help him process those experiences, I discovered that while there were picture books about hospital stays (broken limbs, maybe a tonsillectomy), there wasn't anything relevant to his medical conditions and the sort of procedures he was undergoing. I spent hours searching the web, asked librarians, etc. It was very frustrating. I don't want to go into the specifics of his medical conditions here.
Yeah, it’s pretty cool that there really are fish that do change their sex in adulthood.
 
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rambot

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Sources established by or that promote LGBTQQIP2SAA+. As a matter of fact that's where I learned the acronym "LGBTQQIP2SAA+" from. That's what from the horse's mouth means.
Well then why would you think that gender roles have anything to do with anything Biblical or ordained by God? Is it biblical that Masai girls are circumsized between 11 and 13? Or that they subordinate to their husbands and cannot divorce?
 
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rambot

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I'm really interested in hearing what the correlation is supposed to be.
Asexuality is a gender
I understand what you're talking about, but I still don't know what your therefore conclusion is.
If gender is a social construct, once you become aware of that, and IF YOU DESIRE TO DO SO, you are able to control what kind of effect it has on you and how you choose to negotiate that.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Scripture makes it clear that God created us male and female and that the male and female are to become husband and wife and produce children. And anything outside of that is perversion.

So celibacy and chastity are a perversion? St. Paul was a pervert because he was unmarried, and he advocated perversion when he offered as advice for the Faithful to remain unmarried. Got it.

Which is why only that Godly construct has been expectable in Old Testament Judaism and New Testament Christianity. One can go ahead and go with the secular humanistic rendering of scripture to facilitate LGBTQQIP2SAA+, but it's pure heresy that puts people on the broad road to destruction.

Which is why the biblical patriarchs and kings famously were monogamous. Solomon and his 300 wives and 700 concubines was a shining example of monogamy.

I think you should be more honest with yourself, that you are defending any biblical principle or moral, you just don't like queer people.

I'm a cis straight male. I've never had any serious doubts about who or what I am. But as far as my masculinity and heterosexuality is concerned, back in the late 90's and throughout the early-mid 2000s I had friends who constantly told me I wasn't a "real man" because I was in touch with my emotions and didn't sleep around. I didn't pursue women just to "get laid", I wanted a serious, long term relationship. And when romance wasn't on the table, I could maintain long term platonic friendships with women. As a result I was bombarded with being called "gay" and had the F-slur thrown at me frequently.

I didn't meet their expectations of what a "man" should be. I was raised with certain values about how to treat people, I looked at the Scriptures--to Christ--about how I should treat others, and to be introspective about my intentions, to "hold every thought captive" as St. Paul says. That my feelings and thoughts might betray me, and to tread carefully. I was never into sports, I was never athletic. I was into dinosaurs and video games as a child. I know nothing about cars, or how to fix broken pipes in my house. I don't relate with "macho" things very well.

As such while I've always had a clear view of what being a man meant for me, it has clashed consistently with what "being a man" means in the minds of many. As such, I've had my masculinity and manhood, my straight sexual orientation challenged and denied throughout much of my life.

These days, that's less of an issue. Largely because those friends, the ones I still call friends anyway, have matured. Others, well they aren't really my friends anymore. And it is bad enough when I faced this kind of nonsense from those outside of the Church, but it was worse when I faced this nonsense from within the Church.

Here, in the Church, we are supposed to regard Christ as King and Lord; and His way as the way above all other ways.

Perhaps you've read this and haven't seen my point in saying this entirely. So let's be clear: My gender and identity were frequently challenged and ridiculed because I didn't conform to what some people believed being "a straight man" entailed. I couldn't "be a man" if I wasn't objectifying women and solely interested in sexual conquests. I wasn't "straight" if I had meaningful friendships with women, or if I talked about my feelings. Others wanted to project their view of gender onto me. I'm a cis-male, my biological sex is male, and I identify as a man. I'm straight, I am romantically and sexually attracted to women. And even still I didn't meet certain expectations of my peers, I didn't conform to certain societal expectations. I didn't conform, and so I was attacked, ridiculed, belittled.

I identified as a man, but I was being told I wasn't one. My biological sex (male) wasn't being called into question. My gender, my male-ness, was.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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