Why is earth's AGE important to you?

[Ephesians321]

No, the new covenant is not made with the earth, that's ludicrous. It's made with people, the 12 disciples at the Last Supper to be precise. That was when it was instituted and the church age began at Pentecost when they were gathered in the upper room.

You are not comprehending covenantal language. Look at Isaiah 51:16:

And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may? What?

plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’ ”

God did not literally plant the Heavens and lay the foundations of the earth in this verse. He is speaking about the creation of the Mosaic Covenant. This is the same Heaven and Earth Jesus and Disciples are speaking about. See Matthew 5:17-18.

Before we commence this discussion any further please read this article in its entirety and you will not be ignorant of what a preterist believes about frequent figurative hyperbolic language of the ancient prophets:

 

[Reasonably Sane]

That is not what I said...

It was pulled directly from your post. Maybe you mean, "that's not what I meant".

 

[Ephesians321]

It was pulled directly from your post. Maybe you mean, "that's not what I meant".

That God still had a plan of salvation for mankind before mankind was even created but under the Mosaic Law did God visit, walk and talk with the Israelites like he did with Adam and Eve? And ask yourself also, why were Adam and Eve expelled from the Garden in the first place?

 

[Reasonably Sane]

That God still had a plan of salvation for mankind before mankind was even created but under the Mosaic Law did God visit, walk and talk with the Israelites like he did with Adam and Eve? And ask yourself also, why were Adam and Eve expelled from the Garden in the first place?

That's not what I was responding to. I quoted what I was responding to.

 

[Ephesians321]

That's not what I was responding to. I quoted what I was responding to.

Okay, so does God visit you, walk with you, and speak with you like he did with Adam and Eve? The Bible is not explicit if He took a temporary physical form but they knew his presence and knew his voice. Sin separates us from God that is why we do not enjoy the "Garden experience". In fact, the Bible says our righteous is as impure and corrupt as menstrual rags. And also, The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? “I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Okay, so does God visit you, walk with you, and speak with you like he did with Adam and Eve? The Bible is not explicit if He took a temporary physical form but they knew his presence and knew his voice. Sin separates us from God that is why we do not enjoy the "Garden experience". In fact, the Bible says our righteous is as impure and corrupt as menstrual rags. And also, The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? “I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Genesis is poetry.

Did God visit, walk with and speak with Adam and eve after the fall?

BTW, Yes, he has spoken with my wife, audibly (once). He has not done so with me, but he did miraculously change my mind once as a direct response to prayer. And it changed my life. It was in the late 1980's.

Also, I don't think we are separate from God. We are already in His kingdom. As some bible scholars put it, his Kingdom is "already, but not yet". i.e. Already here, but not yet completed. Jesus brought it when he died and was resurrected.

God is Holy. By definition it means he is separate. And when we become "holy", we are separate. But one can not survive outside the presence of God, IMO.

I will throw this out: If there is a real "ECT" hell, I think we're in it right now. A constant repeat of our lost and fallen selves in an infinite loop. But I don't believe in ECT hell. What's the point? The purpose of any punishment other than death or prison without the possibility of parole, is to teach someone for when they are made free again. If there is no teaching function, why not death? What is the point of the "punishment"?

Edit: And the biggest complication is that God chooses us, we don't choose him. Peter denied Him three times, and yet...

 

[Ephesians321]

Genesis is poetry.

Did God visit, walk with and speak with Adam and eve after the fall?

BTW, Yes, he has spoken with my wife, audibly (once). He has not done so with me, but he did miraculously change my mind once as a direct response to prayer. And it changed my life. It was in the late 1980's.

Also, I don't think we are separate from God. We are already in His kingdom. As some bible scholars put it, his Kingdom is "already, but not yet". i.e. Already here, but not yet completed. Jesus brought it when he died and was resurrected.

God is Holy. By definition it means he is separate. And when we become "holy", we are separate. But one can not survive outside the presence of God, IMO.

I will throw this out: If there is a real "ECT" hell, I think we're in it right now. A constant repeat of our lost and fallen selves in an infinite loop. But I don't believe in ECT hell. What's the point? The purpose of any punishment other than death or prison without the possibility of parole, is to teach someone for when they are made free again. If there is no teaching function, why not death? What is the point of the "punishment"?

Edit: And the biggest complication is that God chooses us, we don't choose him. Peter denied Him three times, and yet...

Well we need to let the Holy Spirit lead us in life and convict against our carnal, sinful nature. Do not willing grieve the Spirit. But we in throws of internal war and the enemy begins throwing his fiery darts. Paul discusses this at length in Romans 5-8. God's grace abounds and greater than our sins due to the death of his perfect son Jesus but it nothing to to be taken for granted or abused. The Kingdom of God is right now, Christ is our Priest King seated upon the Throne of David and rules providentially from Heaven. This is no "already but not yet".

BECAUSE THOU WILT NOT LEAVE MY SOUL IN HELL, NEITHER WILT THOU SUFFER THINE HOLY ONE TO SEE CORRUPTION. Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, HE WOULD RAISE UP THE CHRIST TO SIT ON HIS THRONE, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, THAT HIS SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HADES, NOR DID HIS FLESH SEE CORRUPTION. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. THEREFORE BEING EXALTED TO THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’Acts 2:27, 29-35

When was the coronation of Christ? During the Roman Empire approximately around A.D. 30-33.

And in the days of these kings [ROME] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
Daniel 2:44

Where was the coronation of Christ? During the Roman Empire approximately around A.D. 30-33 upon his ascension.

“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Well we need to let the Holy Spirit lead us in life and convict against our carnal, sinful nature. Do not willing grieve the Spirit. But we in throws of internal war and the enemy begins throwing his fiery darts. Paul discusses this at length in Romans 5-8. God's grace abounds and greater than our sins due to the death of his perfect son Jesus but it nothing to to be taken for granted or abused. The Kingdom of God is right now, Christ is our Priest King seated upon the Throne of David and rules providentially from Heaven. This is no "already but not yet".

"not yet" means Jesus has not yet returned for his elect and brought us the new Jerusalem. It is not completed.

 

[The Barbarian]

Why is the age of the earth an important matter to you (if it is)?

What is the most important thing that knowing the age of the earth will tell you?

It matters only insofar as it impacts things like geology and biology. It has zero significance for one's faith. At least as far as Christians are concerned.

 

[The Barbarian]

Another Chrtistian put it this way.
The Bible is God's revelation. Science is man's invention.
If there is a discrepancy between the two the mistake must be on the side of man's invention.
That is because God knows all the facts.

The Bible is God's revelation. Interpretation of it, is man's invention. Sometimes Christians don't agree on it.
God knows all things, but the interpreters of His word don't.

 

[Ephesians321]

It matters only insofar as it impacts things like geology and biology. It has zero significance for one's faith. At least as far as Christians are concerned.

100% agree, Christianity is a faith, science is a discipline.

Speaking for myself in those first three chapters I am mostly concerned with God, the Garden, Adam, Eve, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the Tree of Life, the serpent, and the Fall of Man. Hypothetically speaking there can be some lost knowledge also that the original scribes were privy to (schools of thought, imparted wisdom if you must) that failed to be preserved through the ages of time that may further open up the Word of God to us regarding these first three chapters. But all of us completely get the gist of it. Its the futurists/literalists who demand a physical death and physical resurrection that are up in arms over this however.

 

[The Barbarian]

Speaking for myself in those first three chapters I am mostly concerned with God, the Garden, Adam, Eve, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the Tree of Life, the serpent, and the Fall of Man. Hypothetically speaking there can be some lost knowledge also that the original scribes were privy to (schools of thought, imparted wisdom if you must) that failed to be preserved through the ages of time that may further open up the Word of God to us regarding these first three chapters. But all of us completely get the gist of it. Its the futurists/literalists who demand a physical death and physical resurrection that are up in arms over this however.

It might be so. My outlook is that Jesus told us what was necessary to be saved, and what we think of the first three chapters of Genesis is not one of those things.

 

[Ephesians321]

It might be so. My outlook is that Jesus told us what was necessary to be saved, and what we think of the first three chapters of Genesis is not one of those things.

Yes, I have no compulsion to fit science into the Bible or fit the Bible into science. The first three chapters provided us with all the necessary information to be gleamed from it regarding the Gospel and Christ.

 

[didactics]

You are not comprehending covenantal language. Look at Isaiah 51:16:

And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may? What?

plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’ ”

God did not literally plant the Heavens and lay the foundations of the earth in this verse. He is speaking about the creation of the Mosaic Covenant. This is the same Heaven and Earth Jesus and Disciples are speaking about. See Matthew 5:17-18.

Before we commence this discussion any further please read this article in its entirety and you will not be ignorant of what a preterist believes about frequent figurative hyperbolic language of the ancient prophets:

View attachment 338982View attachment 338983View attachment 338984View attachment 338985

You are not comprehending covenantal language.

"Easton's Bible Dictionary" explains that the Hebrew word for covenant is berith, which comes from the root meaning "to cut." A blood covenant was a formal, solemn, and binding agreement—a vow or pledge—between two parties made by "cutting" or dividing of animals into two parts.

Fairchild, Mary. "Christian Wedding Symbols: The Meaning Behind the Traditions." Learn Religions, Jan. 26, 2021, learnreligions.com/christian-wedding-traditions-701948.

Look at Isaiah 51:16:

And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may? What?

plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’ ”

God did not literally plant the Heavens and lay the foundations of the earth in this verse. He is speaking about the creation of the Mosaic Covenant. This is the same Heaven and Earth Jesus and Disciples are speaking about. See Matthew 5:17-18.

I'm not so sure this is speaking about the creation of the Mosaic Covenant. "This must look far forward as to the great work done by the gospel of Christ and his setting up of the holy religion in the world."

Matthew Henry's Commentary

Before we commence this discussion any further please read this article in its entirety and you will not be ignorant of what a preterist believes about frequent figurative hyperbolic language of the ancient prophets:

I have read the article but I didn't need to in order to say what I'm about to right now. I may not consider myself a futurist but it's closer to the truth in one crucial way about kingdom language. The kingdom of Christ is described in many ways in parables, sometimes as something in process and grows to maturity. The church is still growing. It also describes language of true and false converts such as the wheat and the tares or the good fish and the bad ones caught in one net. When taken together it tells me the church has not grown to its full maturity yet. In seed form, Christ has taken away the sins of the world. When the kingdom has grown fully, God will then make earth a place without sin. That is the culmination of Christ's work, to separate the wheat and the tares in the end wherever they may be. It's not just talking about something in isolation that's only relevant to a 1st century audience. As long as we have God's word, it's relevant to all generations. He dealt with the nation of Israel and predicted its downfall so the church continues to grow, not so there is no more growing to be had. If indeed all prophecy is fulfilled and satan is cast in the lake of fire along with his cohort, why is there still demonic activity in the world today? Spiritual warfare still exists. For indeed, God must purge evil wherever it exists and so there must be a conclusion to all things absolutely, wrapped up in a final judgement. And so there will be a separation of the sheep and goats, of true and false converts among the church. Has there been a time when no more false converts exit? No but I do hold to ECT in hell and their existence is reserved for the pits of hell.

 

[Ephesians321]

1. "Easton's Bible Dictionary" explains that the Hebrew word for covenant is berith, which comes from the root meaning "to cut." A blood covenant was a formal, solemn, and binding agreement—a vow or pledge—between two parties made by "cutting" or dividing of animals into two parts.

Fairchild, Mary. "Christian Wedding Symbols: The Meaning Behind the Traditions." Learn Religions, Jan. 26, 2021, learnreligions.com/christian-wedding-traditions-701948.

I'm not so sure this is speaking about the creation of the Mosaic Covenant. "This must look far forward as to the great work done by the gospel of Christ and his setting up of the holy religion in the world."

Matthew Henry's Commentary

2. I have read the article but I didn't need to in order to say what I'm about to right now. I may not consider myself a futurist but it's closer to the truth in one crucial way about kingdom language. The kingdom of Christ is described in many ways in parables, sometimes as something in process and grows to maturity. The church is still growing. It also describes language of true and false converts such as the wheat and the tares or the good fish and the bad ones caught in one net. When taken together it tells me the church has not grown to its full maturity yet. In seed form, Christ has taken away the sins of the world. When the kingdom has grown fully, God will then make earth a place without sin. That is the culmination of Christ's work, to separate the wheat and the tares in the end wherever they may be. It's not just talking about something in isolation that's only relevant to a 1st century audience. As long as we have God's word, it's relevant to all generations. He dealt with the nation of Israel and predicted its downfall so the church continues to grow, not so there is no more growing to be had. If indeed all prophecy is fulfilled and satan is cast in the lake of fire along with his cohort, why is there still demonic activity in the world today? Spiritual warfare still exists. For indeed, God must purge evil wherever it exists and so there must be a conclusion to all things absolutely, wrapped up in a final judgement. And so there will be a separation of the sheep and goats, of true and false converts among the church. Has there been a time when no more false converts exit? No but I do hold to ECT in hell and their existence is reserved for the pits of hell.

1. Isaiah 51:16 +  Isaiah 65:17 + Isaiah 66:22 + Revelation 21:1 = Matthew 5:17-20

2. The earth is never going to be in a state without sin and demonic activities. But Christ did destroy satanic personifications such as the Beast (Nero Caesar), Babylonian Harlot (Jerusalem), The False Prophet (Judaizers / Synagogue of Satan), etc

We are shown, in Revelation 20:14, the defeat/destruction of Jesus’ last enemy: Death and Hades. In AD 70 Jesus unlocked Hades-Paradise; the saints and martyrs were released and judged and admitted into the heavenly city — there to live in God’s presence forever (Rev 1:18; 20:11-15; 21:7). <- Futurist false doctrine of the Rapture which heretically defies John 17:15, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 8:9,14. The Restrainer, the Angel that binds, etc was Claudius Caesar who during his reign issued a religio licita law (Alexandrian Decree) throughout the Empire that protected all faiths and outlawed persecution against any faith most importantly against the Christian faith. Claudius is suspected of being murdered by his wife Agrippina and his monstrous adopted son, Nero rose to be the next Emperor of Rome. He had a Jewish wife who was a Judaizer. With the Restrainer taken out of the way. The Jewish persecution of the Church immediately resumed because it once again found Imperial favor but not only that it that it also led to the great Christian persecution under Nero's reign called biblically the Great Tribulation (Rev. 14:4, 7:14).

Kingdom Received at Christ's Ascension

Notice that Daniel's prophecy places Christ's coronation at his ascension, not his incarnation or second coming. Jesus' death upon a Roman cross was foreknown and foreordained by God; the cross and church of Christ were not "stop gap" measures, but the eternal purpose of God to save his people (Isa. 53; Acts 2:23; cf. Isa. 53; Lk. 24:46, 47; Eph. 3:10, 11). The seat of Jesus' kingdom was never intended to be upon earth, but had always been set in heaven at the right hand of God. Thus, the reign of Jesus from the heaven is depicted all through scripture. This is particularly true of the "resurrection" Psalms. Psalm two describes the murder of Christ and the victory of Jesus in his resurrection and ascension. God "begat" Jesus as a Son in his resurrection; he set him as king upon his "holy hill of Zion" (heavenly Jerusalem), and gave him the kingdoms of the world for his inheritance, which he rules with a rod of iron:

"Ask of me and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." Ps. 2:8, 9; cf. Rom. 1:4

Psalm 110 similarly describes Christ's rule from God's right hand in heaven:

"The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." Ps. 110:1, 2

Psalm 2 and 110 thus describe the reign of Christ; both extend it over the heathen and Christ's enemies; both set it at God's right hand in heaven in precisely the same terms as Daniel's coronation vision. The New Testament epistles and Acts affirm that Psalm 2 and 110 were fulfilled in Christ's ascension (Acts 2:34, 35; 13:33; Heb. 1:13; 12:2; I Pet. 3:22). Moreover, John portrays the heavenly coronation of Christ as an accomplished fact, drawing on the imagery and language of Daniel and the Psalms (Rev. 5; 12:5), and Jesus himself indicates present fulfillment of Psalm 2 (Rev. 2:26, 27). Hence, prophecies like Isa. 9:6, 7, which speak of Christ ruling upon David's throne, looked for fulfillment in his resurrection and ascension, not upon earth.

Learn War No More

Some will object that many, if not most, nations are in denial and rebellion of Christ's authority and Sonship: How does this square with imagery of the Messianic kingdom where the nations "beat their swords into plowshares" and learn war no more? Consider this prophecy of Isaiah:

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. "Isa. 2:2-4

This imagery is commonly relied upon by Millennialists as foretelling a time of universal peace on earth under the Messiah. However, this mistakes the passage.

First, it must be pointed out that scripture nowhere foretells a time when all nations willingly submit to Christ. Just the opposite: When Psalm 110 says "rule thou in the midst of thine enemies," it presupposes resistance to Christ's reign. Likewise, when Psalm 2 says the Son will break the nations with a rod of iron and thus urges earth's kings and judges to "kiss the Son, lest he be angry and ye perish from the way" (v. 12), it indicates that Christ governs all nations, whether they acknowledge him or not (cf. Zech. 14:16-19). Indeed, Isaiah himself says as much when he states that Christ will "judge among the nations and shall rebuke many peoples" (Isa. 2:4). Thus, the notion of a time when universal peace will obtain on earth is mere fantasy.

Second, when Isaiah says the nations will "learn war no more," he speaks only of those who walk in his paths; viz., those who obey the gospel. "Learning war" is the opposite of "rest from war." As the Jews obeyed God, he gave them rest from their enemies. But when they disobeyed, war was the result (Jud. 3:8, 11, 30; II Sam. 7:1, 11). "Learning war" therefore is to experience God's chastisement and correction; "rest from war" his reward and favor (cf. Jud. 3:1, 2). Hence, Isaiah's imagery of the nations "beating their swords into plowshares" applies only to those who "ascend" the mountain of the Lord (receive the gospel), not the nations that remain in rebellion.

It is helpful to our understanding the kingdom to think in terms of the Roman Empire. Many nations came under Roman dominion, some willing made alliance and were free; others were conquered and subjected to tribute. Some nations continued in subjection to Rome; others tried to break free and rebel. So with the kingdom of Christ: some nations freely obey the gospel and own Christ as Lord, others are obstinate and rebel. Those that obey enjoy Christ's favor; those that do not experience his wrath.

The Coming of Christ in Wrath

Almost all prophecies that describe Christ's receipt of the kingdom also describe his wrath. Just as Dispensationalists mistake the nature of Christ's kingdom, they mistake the nature of his second coming, in both cases looking for a future bodily and visible manifestation. Preterists believe that the second coming was spiritual (intangible/invisible) and providential; they believe that Jesus' coming in his kingdom in power described God's divine wrath upon the Jews and Romans for the murder of Christ and persecution of his church. Virtually all of the time texts of the New Testament place Jesus' return within the life-time of the first disciples.

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Mat. 16: 27, 28

We encourage the reader to consult the following passages, which represent but a few of the many that might be cited, demonstrating the first century return of Christ: Matt. 10:23; 23:36; 24:34; 26:64; Jn. 21:22; Heb. 10:37; Jm. 5:8; Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:7, 10, 12, 20. The reign of Christ manifested in the overthrow of Jerusalem and the Roman civil wars of AD 68-70 did not expend Christ's wrath; they were merely its beginning. The wars and calamities that beset men and nations down through history until even today represent the providential judgment of Christ as he rules the nations above the circle of the earth. Earth's peoples, kings and potentates should therefore heed the warning of the Psalmist, and bow before heaven's king:

"Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." Ps. 2:10-12.

Conclusion
The kingdom is the dominion of Christ over earth, which he obtained at his ascension.

http://preteristcentral.com/How Do Preterists View the Kingdom of Chirst.html

 

[didactics]

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Mat. 16: 27, 28

All of this more likely relates to the entire process by which Jesus receives dominion. All of this happened during the life of the disciples. It doesn't mean there won't ever be a time when kingdom building becomes evident on earth. If demonic activity gets to reign supreme on earth for all eternity, then God is not ever bounding them in hell. That's a real problem and why you sir are the heretic not futurists.

 

[Derf]

Genesis is poetry.

Did God visit, walk with and speak with Adam and eve after the fall?

BTW, Yes, he has spoken with my wife, audibly (once). He has not done so with me, but he did miraculously change my mind once as a direct response to prayer. And it changed my life. It was in the late 1980's.

Also, I don't think we are separate from God. We are already in His kingdom. As some bible scholars put it, his Kingdom is "already, but not yet". i.e. Already here, but not yet completed. Jesus brought it when he died and was resurrected.

God is Holy. By definition it means he is separate. And when we become "holy", we are separate. But one can not survive outside the presence of God, IMO.

Thus hell/lake of fire, if one is made immortal.

I will throw this out: If there is a real "ECT" hell, I think we're in it right now. A constant repeat of our lost and fallen selves in an infinite loop. But I don't believe in ECT hell. What's the point? The purpose of any punishment other than death or prison without the possibility of parole, is to teach someone for when they are made free again. If there is no teaching function, why not death? What is the point of the "punishment"?

The point of a second death after the first is defeated is to contain the people who refuse to follow the king's orders. If the first death is really death (not just "separation", but man returning to dust), and it is destroyed, i.e. no longer available, then what's left to do with those folks who have been resurrected, but won't follow?

 

[IROQUOIS]

You are not comprehending covenantal language. Look at Isaiah 51:16:

And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may? What?

plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’ ”

God did not literally plant the Heavens and lay the foundations of the earth in this verse. He is speaking about the creation of the Mosaic Covenant. This is the same Heaven and Earth Jesus and Disciples are speaking about. See Matthew 5:17-18.

Before we commence this discussion any further please read this article in its entirety and you will not be ignorant of what a preterist believes about frequent figurative hyperbolic language of the ancient prophets:

View attachment 338982View attachment 338983View attachment 338984View attachment 338985

Your article quotes Newton of all people. How is that to be taken seriously on a Christian forum?

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Thus hell/lake of fire, if one is made immortal.

The point of a second death after the first is defeated is to contain the people who refuse to follow the king's orders. If the first death is really death (not just "separation", but man returning to dust), and it is destroyed, i.e. no longer available, then what's left to do with those folks who have been resurrected, but won't follow?

The second death. The first death is the death of the body. The second death is the death of the person who occupied it.

An analogy. A human body is like a drive by wire car. The car is the body, and the built in computer is the brain. But a thing separate from the car, the driver/person, is the "mind". When a car wears out and is sent to the junk yard, the driver continues on, usually buying another car. But beyond the analogy, the person returns to the "unseen realm", where they await either the white throne or Bema seat judgement, depending on their status. Those at the white throne are thrown into the fire where they are burned up like so many weeds (Mat 13:40).

This is all just my opinion, of course.

 

[Ephesians321]

All of this more likely relates to the entire process by which Jesus receives dominion. All of this happened during the life of the disciples. It doesn't mean there won't ever be a time when kingdom building becomes evident on earth. If demonic activity gets to reign supreme on earth for all eternity, then God is not ever bounding them in hell. That's a real problem and why you sir are the heretic not futurists.

Jesus was enthroned when he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. In his Pentecost sermon Peter declares that, because David knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne, therefore David looked ahead and prophesied concerning the resurrection of the Christ (Acts 2:30-31).
Indeed, the promises to David were fulfilled in both Jesus’ resurrection and his ascension (Ac 2:30-36).
Therefore, the throne of David has been fully restored in Jesus (Lk 1:32-33; cf. Isa 9:7).
Note that Jesus was installed as King in the heavenly Zion — alongside Yahweh (Ps 2:6; 110:1-2).
His rule is from heaven — over the earth but not on the earth. It’s from heaven that he subdues his enemies (Psalm 110; Mt 26:64).
The author of Hebrews cites from 2 Samuel 7:14 and from Psalms 2, 45 and 110, affirming that all these promises/prophecies have been fulfilled with Jesus having ascended to the Father’s side (Heb 1:3-13).
Likewise, Daniel’s “son of man” vision (Dan 7:13-14) was fulfilled in Jesus’ ascension.
All nations are Jesus’ reward and inheritance (Ps 2:8; Dan 7:14).
He wins the nations through the gospel (Mt 28:18-20; cf. Isa 2:3).
In time, all nations will be converted (Rev 15:4; cf. Ps 86:9).
Consider Paul’s last citation too: Isaiah 11:10 (LXX). Paul evidently viewed this prophecy as being similarly fulfilled in his day via the gospel, as the “knowledge of the LORD” (Isa 11:9) spread throughout the world. Isaiah 11:6-9 depicts perfect harmony between natural enemies (predators and prey) under Messiah’s rule. Indeed, the peace, reconciliation, and security to be enjoyed in the messianic kingdom is a prominent Isaianic theme — see Isaiah 2:4; 9:6-7; 16:4-5; 19:23-25; 32:1-2; 35:9.
And so it is that the gospel brings about peace and reconciliation between former enemies — diverse groups become united under the lordship of Christ. In Paul’s day, the natural hostility between Jews and Gentiles was being eroded as they worshipped God together (Rom 15:5-7; Eph 2:14-15).
Following Paul’s lead, references in the Psalms to the victories and dominion to be enjoyed by David’s royal heirs (e.g., Psalms 2, 45, 72, 110) should be viewed as finding ultimate fulfillment in the incorporation of people into Messiah’s kingdom via the gospel. In this way, peoples and nations are blessed in accordance with the promises made to Abraham — see Romans 4:13; Galatians 3:8, 14 (cf. Gen 12:3; 22:18; Ps 72:17).
But note the spiritual nature of this conquest: Jesus, via the gospel, rules over all who voluntarily submit to him as Lord and Savior. Indeed, Paul’s task as the apostle to the Gentiles was to bring the nations to “the obedience of faith” — the obedience to Christ that true faith inevitably inspires (Rom 1:5; 16:26; cf. Rom 15:18).

John’s last vision (Revelation 21 – 22) shows what Jesus has finally accomplished: Jesus is enthroned in the heavenly Zion, alongside the Father (Rev 22:3b; cf. Ps 2:6; 110:1-2; Ac 2:30-36).
With his enemies destroyed, all things in heaven and on earth have come under his headship (Eph 1:10, 22).

Concerning things in heaven: “Jerusalem” is the final, heavenly reward of the Old Testament saints (Heb 11:10, 16) and the first-century martyrs (Rev 7:14-17; 21:7). We are shown, in Revelation 20:14, the defeat/destruction of Jesus’ last enemy: Death and Hades.
In AD 70 Jesus unlocked Hades-Paradise; the saints and martyrs were released and judged and admitted into the heavenly city — there to live in God’s presence forever (Rev 1:18; 20:11-15; 21:7).
The saints’ admittance into heaven via resurrection represented the end of Man’s long exile — an exile that began with Adam’s expulsion from the Garden and which continued posthumously in Paradise.

Concerning things on earth: Jerusalem is also on earth (Rev 21:2, 10): It represents Jerusalem restored after judgment — in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy.
• It’s Christ’s Bride — the Church, the people of God (Rev 21:2, 9; cf. Eph 5:25ff.).
• It’s where believers “live” under the New Covenant (Heb 12:22).
• It’s the capital and seat of government of the new (post-70 AD) world order: Jesus, with the Father, is enthroned therein (Rev 22:1, 3b), and the surrounding nations are firmly under his/their rule (Rev 12:5; cf. Ps 2:6-9). The saints co-reign with Christ from Jerusalem (Rev 2:26-27; 5:10; 22:5; Dan 7:18, 27).
• The city (as the Church) serves as a light and ministers gospel healing to the nations (Rev 21:24; 22:2): The wicked outside are invited to repent and enter through the gates (Rev 22:14-15, 17). In time, all nations will come to worship God in Jerusalem (Rev 15:4; cf. Ps 86:9; Isa 2:1-3; Mt 28:18-19).
Revelation therefore shows the throne of David as fully restored, with all nations being blessed through his benevolent rule (Psalm 72; Isa 9:6-7; 11:1-10; 42:1-4; Lk 1:32-33).
Thus, God’s kingdom has come — his eternal kingdom promised in the Old Testament. Of this kingdom Jesus is (and will remain) the king-priest “forever” (Ps 110:1-4; Heb 6:20; 7:17, 21, 24). And since he is king “forever” (2Sam 7:16; Ps 72:5; Isa 9:7; Dan 7:14; Lk 1:33; Rev 11:15), the world itself must continue on, if not literally forever, certainly for a very long time. Sinners (on earth) will always need a priestly mediator to intercede for them (Heb 7:25; Rom 8:34; 1Jn 2:1).

Jesus’ rule and the gospel The gospel is “the good news of the kingdom of God” (Lk 4:43; 8:1; 16:16). It’s the proclamation that, through Jesus, God’s kingdom has finally come (Ac 8:12; 19:8; 20:25; 28:23, 31). Jesus co-rules with the Father (Rev 11:15; Ps 110:1-2; Dan 7:13-14). The gospel calls people to recognize that very fact — to confess him as Lord and as God (Rom 10:9; Php 2:9-11), and to submit to his rule through repentance expressed in baptism (Mt 3:2; 4:17; 28:18-20; Ac 2:36-38).
God’s kingdom is of a spiritual-moral nature rather than political or external. The Pharisees sought an earthly monarchy, like that of David, but Jesus repudiates this notion entirely: 20 … “The kingdom of God does not come with observation. 21 Nor will they say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For remember, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:20-21, MEV).
To be sure, Jesus is enthroned in heaven and rules over the nations. Yet here, Jesus emphasizes the spiritual-moral nature of his rule. He rules us via his word and Spirit: the kingdom involves godly living and obedience (Rom 14:17; Col 2:6).
We confess him as Lord — as God, and as our king. Thus, the kingdom has its throne in human hearts. As Christians we are incorporated into this kingdom (Col 1:13). Apart from spiritual new birth one can neither perceive nor enter the kingdom (Jn 3:3, 5). Our kingdom “weapons” involve persuasion and reasoned arguments (2Cor 10:4-5; cf. Ps 149:6-9; Jn 18:36).
Jesus’ rule over the nations Jesus’ gospel “conquest” of the Gentiles proves that David’s throne has been restored. James explicitly teaches this in Acts 15:13-21 — his address to the Jerusalem Council: James regards the conversion of the Gentiles as something foretold by the Old Testament prophets (15:14-15), and he goes on to cite just one example: Amos 9:11-12. Jesus has raised up David’s fallen tent; he’s rebuilt its ruins and restored it to its former glory (15:16). All this so that the Gentiles might seek the Lord, for they, too, belong to him (15:17). )
And so, through the gospel, Christ exercises dominion over the nations. But note that this is a spiritual, not a politico-military, conquest: Jesus conquers through the gospel; he rules over all who voluntarily submit to him as Lord and Savior.
Psalm 2 notes that while the nations are Jesus’ reward and inheritance, their rulers don’t submit to him willingly. Of necessity he rules “with a rod of iron” (2:9). So he rules them providentially, punishing and disciplining them as he deems necessary.