Litany for Daily Prayer

[JM]

Enjoy!

 

[The Liturgist]

Enjoy!

I have that entire album in my collection (I purchased it on Apple Music).

Do you know of any LCMS/LCC parishes that celebrate the entire divine office? @MarkRohfrietsch ’s church celebrates a good chunk of it I have noticed.

 

[JM]

Free in Spotify

 

[RileyG]

Beautiful. Thank you for posting.

 

[The Liturgist]

Free in Spotify

Nice.

If anyone finds out about any LCMS or LCC parishes which routinely celebrate the Lutheran divine office, and which stream it, please let me know. Occasionally @MarkRohfrietsch ’s church uses parts of it and I have watched those on FaceBook and YouTube now that his parish streams there as well.

 

[JM]

Nice.

If anyone finds out about any LCMS or LCC parishes which routinely celebrate the Lutheran divine office, and which stream it, please let me know. Occasionally @MarkRohfrietsch ’s church uses parts of it and I have watched those on FaceBook and YouTube now that his parish streams there as well.

Can a deacon lead the Divine Office?

 

[The Liturgist]

Can a deacon lead the Divine Office?

Usually in all churches I am aware of the Divine Office can be led even by laity, the only distinction being that some prayers will change or be omitted. This is the case in Eastern Orthodoxy, in Anglicanism, in Oriental Orthodoxy, and Roman Catholicism, and so I would assume it is also the case in the LCMS and LCC, I have seen nothing in the LSB to the contrary. It would be extremely unusual for a church to require a presbyter for the celebration of the Divine Office, particularly one as traditional and orthodox as the LCMS and LCC. Usually they are only required for the Eucharist and other sacramental services, which are very important, but historically all liturgical churches I am aware of have made provisions for the Divine Office to be led by a Reader or a laic or for example, in convents and monasteries, by a nun who cannot have holy orders, or by a monk who lacks them in the absence of a monastic priest, and so on.

 

[JM]

Usually in all churches I am aware of the Divine Office can be led even by laity, the only distinction being that some prayers will change or be omitted. This is the case in Eastern Orthodoxy, in Anglicanism, in Oriental Orthodoxy, and Roman Catholicism, and so I would assume it is also the case in the LCMS and LCC, I have seen nothing in the LSB to the contrary. It would be extremely unusual for a church to require a presbyter for the celebration of the Divine Office, particularly one as traditional and orthodox as the LCMS and LCC. Usually they are only required for the Eucharist and other sacramental services, which are very important, but historically all liturgical churches I am aware of have made provisions for the Divine Office to be led by a Reader or a laic or for example, in convents and monasteries, by a nun who cannot have holy orders, or by a monk who lacks them in the absence of a monastic priest, and so on.

I'll ask my Pastor if this is someone he can train me to do.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Usually in all churches I am aware of the Divine Office can be led even by laity, the only distinction being that some prayers will change or be omitted. This is the case in Eastern Orthodoxy, in Anglicanism, in Oriental Orthodoxy, and Roman Catholicism, and so I would assume it is also the case in the LCMS and LCC, I have seen nothing in the LSB to the contrary. It would be extremely unusual for a church to require a presbyter for the celebration of the Divine Office, particularly one as traditional and orthodox as the LCMS and LCC. Usually they are only required for the Eucharist and other sacramental services, which are very important, but historically all liturgical churches I am aware of have made provisions for the Divine Office to be led by a Reader or a laic or for example, in convents and monasteries, by a nun who cannot have holy orders, or by a monk who lacks them in the absence of a monastic priest, and so on.

Can a deacon lead the Divine Office?

Yes, they can; and as @The Liturgist stated above; any lay person. Ideally, it should be a Deacon or Elder. In my Congregation, the office of Elder/Deacon is called that in our constitution; and we have been called upon to do so from time to time in the absence of a Pastor. Depending on Pastors direction, morning service is usually Matins, evening, vespers, but we have done the Misae anti-communio in the morning as well (DS3 Without Communion.

In Lutheran Service Book, in the Rubrics, the letter "L" desognates Leader rather than the more specific P for Pastor. The Salutation before the collects are L-"O Lord hear my prayer; C-And Let my cry come to you; rather than P- The Lord be with you, C-And with your spirit.

Likewise with the Benediction in the case of a lay leader ends with "be with us all"; if a Pastor is celebrating, it would be "be with you all.

The Lectionary is published, so readings and psalms are appointed for you; commemorations and festivals as well, but there are rules that apply as to which take priority.

Treasury of Daily Prayer contains the liturgies but a different, cyclical lectionary, which seems daunting at first, but one can soon get in the grove. It contains devotional material, but follows a calendar cycle rather than the Liturgical calendar, although allowances are made for major festivals.

In a school situation or in a Sister House, it would be very common for women to lead the office.

Doing this privately or on a personal blog is one thing, but doing so on behalf of one's congregation would require the oversight of the Pastor, and the approval of Council. If you have Elders, their endorsement would be needed also,, and possibly the voters as well as defined in the constitution.

Clear as mud. LOL

 

[The Liturgist]

Yes, they can; and as @The Liturgist stated above; any lay person. Ideally, it should be a Deacon or Elder. In my Congregation, the office of Elder/Deacon is called that in our constitution; and we have been called upon to do so from time to time in the absence of a Pastor. Depending on Pastors direction, morning service is usually Matins, evening, vespers, but we have done the Misae anti-communio in the morning as well (DS3 Without Communion.

In Lutheran Service Book, in the Rubrics, the letter "L" desognates Leader rather than the more specific P for Pastor. The Salutation before the collects are L-"O Lord hear my prayer; C-And Let my cry come to you; rather than P- The Lord be with you, C-And with your spirit.

Likewise with the Benediction in the case of a lay leader ends with "be with us all"; if a Pastor is celebrating, it would be "be with you all.

The Lectionary is published, so readings and psalms are appointed for you; commemorations and festivals as well, but there are rules that apply as to which take priority.

Treasury of Daily Prayer contains the liturgies but a different, cyclical lectionary, which seems daunting at first, but one can soon get in the grove. It contains devotional material, but follows a calendar cycle rather than the Liturgical calendar, although allowances are made for major festivals.

In a school situation or in a Sister House, it would be very common for women to lead the office.

Doing this privately or on a personal blog is one thing, but doing so on behalf of one's congregation would require the oversight of the Pastor, and the approval of Council. If you have Elders, their endorsement would be needed also,, and possibly the voters as well as defined in the constitution.

Clear as mud. LOL

Thank you for this excellent post explaining how the Divine Office works specifically in the context of the LCMS/LCC LSB! As a liturgical geek this kind of content is what I especially love to see on CF.com.

 

[Shane R]

I've asked about this a few times in both the LCMS and NALC. I am rostered as a supply pastor for NALC but parishes are usually a little apprehensive about bringing in an Anglican priest for the first time so they tend to ask me for an interview first. Of the 4 congregations where I took bookings this year only 1 had familiarity with Matins and Vespers. None used the Litany for anything.

The organist for the biggest one was very excited to tell me that she goes Anglican for the summers. She spends her summers at Thunder Bay, ON. I initially found this somewhat odd until I looked at the locator map for NALC and found they don't have a congregation East of Winnipeg.

One of the interim pastors, who tend to be older folks that could be retired if they want to, told me the Offices were not really a part of the ALC culture (ALC was one of the constituents that came together to form ELCA). If congregations weren't having Communion they would use the Antecommunion portion of the liturgy. Most of the service books I am familiar with conclude that service by jumping from the Creed to the Lord's Prayer and Benediction and then call it done.

The local LCMS pastor told me he hadn't encountered a congregation since he left seminary in Ft. Wayne that was using the Offices. He had no real interest in teaching them to his congregation. He likes to dabble with the 'Creative Worship Resources' that are apparently floating around in LCMS.

 

[JM]

At this point, I'd struggle to "go Anglican" knowing their receptionist views.

Am I out of line?

 

[Shane R]

At this point, I'd struggle to "go Anglican" knowing their receptionist views.

Am I out of line?

There is not one monolithic view of the Communion in Anglicanism. Rather, memorialism and transubstantiation are discouraged as outside the norms of Anglican sacramental theology. I am generally apprehensive of Anglican Church of Canada and would not attend. The Anglican Network in Canada, which is ACNA's affiliate, is liturgically even worse.

 

[The Liturgist]

At this point, I'd struggle to "go Anglican" knowing their receptionist views.

Am I out of line?

I think it depends on the level of churchmanship, since the High Churchmen and Anglo Catholics I tend to seek out have beliefs on the Eucharist that are either equivalent to those of the Lutherans or the Roman Catholics, or the Eastern churches in the case of Scottish Episcopalians and many American Anglo Catholics, who believe that the consecration happens with the Epiclesis rather than the Words of the Institution (which is why the Scottish and American prayerbooks historically had a very strong epiclesis, copied from the ancient Divine Liturgy of St. James*).

But the broad church, liberal catholic and low church views tend towards receptionism. And the 1662 BCP which is still official in the UK has the infamous “black rubric” that exists basically to thwart a belief in the Real Presence, but British Anglo Catholics tend not to use the 1662 communion service.

*This liturgy has historically been used in the Eastern and Syriac Orthodox churches and associated with Jerusalem in the same way the ancient Divine Liturgy of St. Mark/St. Cyril is associated with Alexandria.

 

[The Liturgist]

There is not one monolithic view of the Communion in Anglicanism. Rather, memorialism and transubstantiation are discouraged as outside the norms of Anglican sacramental theology. I am generally apprehensive of Anglican Church of Canada and would not attend. The Anglican Network in Canada, which is ACNA's affiliate, is liturgically even worse.

That being said many Anglo Catholics definitely seem to believe in either transubstantiation or the Lutheran or Orthodox views of the Real Presence. And this seems to be encouraged in some continuing Anglican jurisdictions. Also I don’t think the C of E or the ACC or the Episcopalians even care at this point about thwarting Anglo Catholicism, except where traditionalist Anglo Catholics object to the pervasive theological liberalism.

Interestingly there don’t seem to be many ACNA or continuing Anglican jurisdictions in Canada, despite the popularity of Orthodoxy and Confessional Lutheranism. One would expect some Canadian Anglicans would be sick of the ACC by now.

 

[The Liturgist]

I've asked about this a few times in both the LCMS and NALC. I am rostered as a supply pastor for NALC but parishes are usually a little apprehensive about bringing in an Anglican priest for the first time so they tend to ask me for an interview first. Of the 4 congregations where I took bookings this year only 1 had familiarity with Matins and Vespers. None used the Litany for anything.

The organist for the biggest one was very excited to tell me that she goes Anglican for the summers. She spends her summers at Thunder Bay, ON. I initially found this somewhat odd until I looked at the locator map for NALC and found they don't have a congregation East of Winnipeg.

One of the interim pastors, who tend to be older folks that could be retired if they want to, told me the Offices were not really a part of the ALC culture (ALC was one of the constituents that came together to form ELCA). If congregations weren't having Communion they would use the Antecommunion portion of the liturgy. Most of the service books I am familiar with conclude that service by jumping from the Creed to the Lord's Prayer and Benediction and then call it done.

The local LCMS pastor told me he hadn't encountered a congregation since he left seminary in Ft. Wayne that was using the Offices. He had no real interest in teaching them to his congregation. He likes to dabble with the 'Creative Worship Resources' that are apparently floating around in LCMS.

This is another really interesting liturgical post. Out of curiosity, was the divine office a part of LCA culture? I had assumed it was, given the emphasis it receives in the 1959 Lutheran Hymnal and Service Book, and also given that an Augustana Synod reunion I enjoyed a few years back began with Choral Evensong-type Vespers. Also the ELCA published recordings of the canticles for their Divine Office, which correspond to the Anglican ones, on iTunes, and they are really good compositions. Actually they work rather well with the Divine Office setting from the LCMS.

As an aside I find it really interesting how many Lutheran churches love the mass setting composed by the great Canadian composer Healey Willan. I have never heard an Anglican Church, in Canada or elsewhere, except for one Evensong service in the UK, use any of his music, but a Lutheran church in Toronto used his mass, and the tiny Protest’ant synod (which broke away from WELS in the early 20th century but has shrunk dramatically and now has I think five member churches) is preparing a new musical service book that features it.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Anglican Network in Canada, which is ACNA's affiliate, is liturgically even worse.

Rather Holy Trinity Brampton style I take it, with praise and worship music?

St. Thomas Huron Street in Toronto is an ACC Anglo-Catholic parish that has beautiful, traditional liturgy using the 1962 Canadian BCP for most services (their early morning service uses the BAS, but it is still tasteful and elegant). There are a few other parishes of the ACC that I watch that normally use the BCP on Sundays and do a good job liturgically.

Sadly Healey Willan’s former parishes in Toronto, St. Paul’s and St. Mary Magdalene, seem to have become very liberal and I am unable to enjoy their services.

 

[JM]

Cranmer was a receptionist and the BCP contain wording that leads to receptionism if not outright receptionism. Augustus Toplady demonstrates this in Historic proof doctrinal Calvinism in the Church of England and J. C. Ryle Thoughts on the Prayer Book.

I think the Oxford Movement confused and read into the Prayer Book things that were not there.

Your in the Lord,

jm

 

[The Liturgist]

Cranmer was a receptionist and the BCP contain wording that leads to receptionism if not outright receptionism. Augustus Toplady demonstrates this in Historic proof doctrinal Calvinism in the Church of England and J. C. Ryle Thoughts on the Prayer Book.

I think the Oxford Movement confused and read into the Prayer Book things that were not there.

Your in the Lord,

jm

I myself agree regarding Cranmer, and I think the Oxford Movement was using casuistry to try to intentionally articulate an Evangelical Catholic interpretation of the BCP and the 39 articles since they lacked the numbers to change it. In 1928 the Church of England voted to adopt a new, much more Anglo Catholic Book of Common Prayer, which was almost as high church as the American and Scottish editions of the BCP, but it was defeated in Parliament despite a majority of Anglicans voting for it in the House of Commons, by some chicanery on the part of the low church MPs, who sought the assistance of other Protestants to vote down the BCP on the grounds that it was Romanizing, “shameless Popery”, as they sometimes say, when in reality the 1928 Deposited Book was theologically closest to Lutheranism. Fortunately the 1662 BCP remains the standard only in the UK, and the only parts of it in common use are Mattins and Evensong, which lack the offensive aspects such as the Black Rubric. And indeed, since the text of those offices is available in Common Worship, which also includes material drawn from the 1928 Deposited Book, increasingly Anglican parishes just use that. However, it is worth noting that the dramatic shift towards Anglo Catholicism that resulted in the Church of England being given control over its own liturgy after the 1928 incident, and the legalization of the wearing of chasubles, and of incense, and other things theoretically banned previously, was the result of the message of the Oxford Movement catching on.

By the way, as an interesting aside the traditional Lutheran hymnals in the US obtained their liturgical texts from the BCP, which was edited to produce “the Common Service,” which in turn served as the basis for all of the major hymnals with just a few exceptions, until the 1979 Lutheran Book of Worship was released, followed by Lutheran Worship, but these works were influenced instead by the English translation of the Novus Ordo Missae, and were jointly developed with the Episcopal Church and Rite II in the 1979 BCP.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

At this point, I'd struggle to "go Anglican" knowing their receptionist views.

Am I out of line?

You, sir, are my brother!!!