BREAKING NEWS Hamas fire rockets into Israel

[John Helpher]

Well, punishment is about to be handed to "Palestine". And it's justified.

That's fine, so long as you're prepared to say the same for those times when Israel has abused Palestine. That's the problem here. You are right to criticize any Palestinians for their violence. They are straight up wrong to do any of that stuff. But, I can say that without contradiction because I'm willing to say it about both sides. They are both wrong to kill each other. I can confidently say that because it is consistent with the teachings of Jesus.

Another teaching of Jesus is, "You will be judged the same way you judge others". That means you can judge the Palestinians as worthy of punishment here, but it also means you open yourself up to that same, harsh judgment regarding your alignment with Israel and all their bad behaviours.

Unfortunately, most Christians don't care what Jesus taught. They have their very strong ideals of their own good righteousness and the outrage they feel only results in more and more proof of just how righteous they must actually be, much like Landon boldly declaring, "There is no excuse for murder!" one moment to "Even the Palestinian babies deserve to be "punished" with Israeli bombs!" in the next. God help any man who decides babies deserve to be punished with bombs.

 

[timothyu]

even Jesus' teachings to love your enemy can be ignored.

Is that wise when repentance and salvation depend upon putting God's will ahead of our own?

 

[John Helpher]

Is that wise when repentance and salvation depend upon putting God's will ahead of our own?

That was a rhetorical comment based on following the logic of these people who say that Israel is justified in their violence while Palestine is not.

We should not ignore Jesus' teachings, but the only way to continue supporting Israel while they bomb their enemy is to do that very thing.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Oh no, those Paleatinians act differently. They're fine.

Whew, I'm so relieved that you're not talking about an entire genos as though we could treat them as terrorists and do whatever we want, presumably including ciding them.

 

[Landon Caeli]

That's fine, so long as you're prepared to say the same for those times when Israel has abused Palestine. That's the problem here. You are right to criticize any Palestinians for their violence. They are straight up wrong to do any of that stuff. But, I can say that without contradiction because I'm willing to say it about both sides. They are both wrong to kill each other. I can confidently say that because it is consistent with the teachings of Jesus.

Another teaching of Jesus is, "You will be judged the same way you judge others". That means you can judge the Palestinians as worthy of punishment here, but it also means you open yourself up to that same, harsh judgment regarding your alignment with Israel and all their bad behaviours.

Unfortunately, most Christians don't care what Jesus taught. They have their very strong ideals of their own good righteousness and the outrage they feel only results in more and more proof of just how righteous they must actually be, much like Landon boldly declaring, "There is no excuse for murder!" one moment to "Even the Palestinian babies deserve to be "punished" with Israeli bombs!" in the next. God help any man who decides babies deserve to be punished with bombs.

Nope. For terrorism like this there will always be punishments. Up to, and to including the killing of military and political operatives. There will also be civilian casualties.

...Regardless.

 

[John Helpher]

I'll say what I want.

Yes, of course you will. I'm just saying you shouldn't. You shouldn't misrepresent the teachings of Jesus, or what it means to be Christian. You can't advocate for killing your enemies (even their babies) and say that you're aligned with Jesus. They are opposed behaviours.

When you cram them together as though they can be compatible (without enough self-righteous indignation) you create confusion about what Christianity is, much like a child molesting priest becomes ammunition for atheists to criticize Christianity. It's not fair because obviously Jesus did not teach that it's okay to molest children, and these atheists should be fair enough to consider that in their criticisms, but they don't, and a lot of confusion and frustration is created as a result. It's the same with you and your support for Israel's enemy-murdering while also claiming to be Christian; it just creates confusion about what it really means to be Christian.

So, true, I cannot stop you. If I were a mod, I would, in a heartbeat. I hate it when Jesus is misrepresented, especially when it's coming from professing Christians. For now, I just have to be content that you are given the freedom to do this kind of thing. Everyone gets a chance to show who they really are, no matter how gross it turns out to be.

 

[Landon Caeli]

We should not ignore Jesus' teachings, but the only way to continue supporting Israel while they bomb their enemy is to do that very thing.

By not allowing Israel to retaliate, we would be infringing on their right to defend themselves.

...Justice *MUST* be served.

 

[John Helpher]

...Regardless.

Right, for all your pretense at respectability, even the civilians don't actually matter. You're prepared to see them all wiped out. You should just start with that, instead of making us drag it out of you.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yes, of course you will. I'm just saying you shouldn't. You shouldn't misrepresent the teachings of Jesus, or what it means to be Christian. You can't advocate for killing your enemies (even their babies) and say that you're aligned with Jesus. They are opposed behaviours.

When you cram them together as though they can be compatible (without enough self-righteous indignation) you create confusion about what Christianity is, much like a child molesting priest becomes ammunition for atheists to criticize Christianity. It's not fair because obviously Jesus did not teach that it's okay to molest children, and these atheists should be fair enough to consider that in their criticisms, but they don't, and a lot of confusion and frustration is created as a result. It's the same with you and your support for Israel's enemy-murdering while also claiming to be Christian; it just creates confusion about what it really means to be Christian.

So, true, I cannot stop you. If I were a mod, I would, in a heartbeat. I hate it when Jesus is misrepresented, especially when it's coming from professing Christians. For now, I just have to be content that you are given the freedom to do this kind of thing. Everyone gets a chance to show who they really are, no matter how gross it turns out to be.

I'll have to pass on your religious advice. Perhaps save it for someone interested.

 

[John Helpher]

By not allowing Israel to retaliate, we would be infringing on their right to defend themselves.

I'm not talking about what you may or may not allow other people to do. I'm talking about what you, as a representative of Jesus, are presenting to the world as your witness of the Kingdom of Heaven, and what seems to be there, under all the pretense at respectability is, "Sure, kill the civilians, too, if that's what it takes to exact revenge on our enemies".

That is not Christianity. At least put a disclaimer on your posts that in these cases you are not speaking as a Christian to avoid any possible confusion.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Right, for all your pretense at respectability, even the civilians don't actually matter. You're prepared to see them all wiped out. You should just start with that, instead of making us drag it out of you.

Whatever.

 

[John Helpher]

I'll have to pass on your religious advice. Perhaps save it for someone interested.

It's not that I'm interested in you, personally. It's that you represent an authority figure on a Christian forum, yet you are promoting anti-Christian teachings (i.e. kill your enemies). I think that's worth calling out.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I'm not talking about what you may or may not allow other people to do. I'm talking about what you, as a representative of Jesus, are presenting to the world as your witness of the Kingdom of Heaven, and what seems to be there, under all the pretense at respectability is, "Sure, kill the civilians, too, if that's what it takes to exact revenge on our enemies".

That is not Christianity. At least put a disclaimer on your posts that in these cases you are not speaking as a Christian to avoid any possible confusion.

Nope. I'm a Christian, with no disclaimers. Just like you! We're the same.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It's not that I'm interested in you, personally. It's that you represent an authority figure on a Christian forum, yet you are promoting anti-Christian teachings (i.e. kill your enemies). I think that's worth calling out.

Interesting.... Aaanyway.

 

[timothyu]

We're the same.

I see 2 representatives, sorry. One of the Kingdom and one of the world, the two alternating sides of Christianity

 

[Bradskii]

I'll say what I want.

And people will judge you on it.

 

[John Helpher]

Just like you! We're the same.

But, we are not the same. I am saying both sides are wrong to kill. That is consistent with what Jesus taught. You are saying one side is wrong to kill while the other side is right to kill. That is not consistent with what Jesus taught.

Nope. I'm a Christian, with no disclaimers.

It may be that you just never really counted the cost like this before. If you want to support Israel's brutal, bloody revenge on the people of Palestine, (which will most likely result in a devastating humanitarian crises of suffering and misery for all involved), you can do that. You just can't also claim to be a Christian while you do it, because they are opposing ideals.

Trying to mix both is precisely what luke-warmness, is. Stop misrepresenting Jesus.

 

[Landon Caeli]

And people will judge you on it.

Peoples judgements have no effect on me.

 

[Bradskii]

Peoples judgements have no effect on me.

Which means that you don't care what anyone else thinks. That's not a great position to occupy.

 

[Landon Caeli]

But, we are not the same. I am saying both sides are wrong to kill. That is consistent with what Jesus taught. You are saying one side is wrong to kill while the other side is right to kill. That is not consistent with what Jesus taught.


It may be that you just never really counted the cost like this before. If you want to support Israel's brutal, bloody revenge on the people of Palestine, (which will most likely result in a devastating humanitarian crises of suffering and misery for all involved), you can do that. You just can't also claim to be a Christian while you do it, because they are opposing ideals.

Trying to mix both is precisely what luke-warmness, is. Stop misrepresenting Jesus.

Self-defense is allowed by the Catholic Church. It's called "just-war", and it can be found within the Holy Catechism.

...So I can indeed claim to be a Christian and be supportive of Israel declaring war.