Was Ellen a fulfillment of Joel 2?

[Leaf473]

Like I said, God stuck with Israel for thousands of years and they had His mark of their relationship to Him on their bodies.

Can any church claim to have the identifying mark of the gift of prophecy? Yes. Just like anyone can claim to be a Christian. Claiming something doesn't make it true. I don't understand the point of your question as you obviously don't think the SDA church has the mark.

My point is that there are things in SDA thinking that don't add up. The idea of the gift of prophecy being an identifying mark of the remnant Church is one of them.

"Behold, I have found this,” says the Preacher, “by adding one thing to another..."
-Ecclesiastes 7

 

[The Liturgist]

Ellen White died in 1915. Have other people since then been identified as having the gift of prophecy?

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, particularly among the monastics of Mount Athos, several elders have been recognized as having been granted prophetic charisms both before and after 1915. Most recently there was Elder Ephraim, who reposed in 2018, who was an Athonite monk who founded a large number of monasteries in the US after revitalizing one of the major Athonite monasteries (Vatopedi, I think), and who is recognized as having the gift of prophecy. I also personally suspect Fr. Seraphim Rose to have had the gift of prophecy.

Likewise there have been several Coptic and other Oriental Orthodox monastics who have demonstrated prophetic and other charisms, and there have been some consecrated religious in the Roman Catholic Church who many in the RCC believes are prophets, and it is possible that at least some of them are; for reasons of ecumenism I am strongly disinclined to just discount automatically all of the Roman Catholic clergy who might potentially have spiritual gifts.

 

[Leaf473]

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, particularly among the monastics of Mount Athos, several elders have been recognized as having been granted prophetic charisms both before and after 1915. Most recently there was Elder Ephraim, who reposed in 2018, who was an Athonite monk who founded a large number of monasteries in the US after revitalizing one of the major Athonite monasteries (Vatopedi, I think), and who is recognized as having the gift of prophecy. I also personally suspect Fr. Seraphim Rose to have had the gift of prophecy.

Likewise there have been several Coptic and other Oriental Orthodox monastics who have demonstrated prophetic and other charisms, and there have been some consecrated religious in the Roman Catholic Church who many in the RCC believes are prophets, and it is possible that at least some of them are; for reasons of ecumenism I am strongly disinclined to just discount automatically all of the Roman Catholic clergy who might potentially have spiritual gifts.

I'd like to hit thumbs up and informative, but of course only one will show up

 

[Gary K]

If no one knows how long it lasts, how can it be an identifying mark?

The SDA belief is that it is an identifying mark of the remnant Church. The early church had prophets. Can any church that traces their roots back to that early church claim to have the identifying mark of the gift of prophecy?

Since this a thread about SDAs and my attitude towards those who don't believe as I/we do I have a couple of videos for you. They are about James Mcconnel and his congregation and their enthusiasm for God. They are Episcopalians and their love for God is amazing.

This second video is His testimony of what God did for him and through him in his ministry, He passed away a couple of years ago but his influence in that church is still palpable.

There is a you tube site dedicated to this congregation published by a guy whose username is bibleguy, He has published a LOT of videos of their congregational singing.

 

[Gary K]

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, particularly among the monastics of Mount Athos, several elders have been recognized as having been granted prophetic charisms both before and after 1915. Most recently there was Elder Ephraim, who reposed in 2018, who was an Athonite monk who founded a large number of monasteries in the US after revitalizing one of the major Athonite monasteries (Vatopedi, I think), and who is recognized as having the gift of prophecy. I also personally suspect Fr. Seraphim Rose to have had the gift of prophecy.

Likewise there have been several Coptic and other Oriental Orthodox monastics who have demonstrated prophetic and other charisms, and there have been some consecrated religious in the Roman Catholic Church who many in the RCC believes are prophets, and it is possible that at least some of them are; for reasons of ecumenism I am strongly disinclined to just discount automatically all of the Roman Catholic clergy who might potentially have spiritual gifts.

My question to you is do they speak according to the Bible and the Bible only?

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Everyone,

This thread is basically a continuation of this discussion from the Sabbath and the Law.

Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

Joel 2 sounds like it's talking about a lot of people. Who are the other people who are doing that in modern times? You might be interested in reading Rene Noorbergen's book Prophet of Destiny. He was a reporter for the US army and wrote a number of books including books on Jeane Dixon and...

www.christianforums.com

Everyone welcome to participate, of course

Was Ellen a fulfillment of this prophecy found in Joel 2?

Bible Gateway passage: Joel 2:28-29 - New International Reader's Version

The Day of the LORD Is Coming - “After that, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your old men will have dreams. Your young men will have visions. In those days I will pour out my Spirit on those who serve me, men and women alike.

www.biblegateway.com

If prophecy "...is an identifying mark of the remnant church...", who besides Ellen is demonstrating it? The prophecy in Joel makes it sound like it's a lot of people.

No the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy given to one person, Ellen White, is not a fulfillment of Joel 2.

, Joel 2 is talking about the "latter rain" in the last days (see Rev 18) and is partially fulfilled in Acts 2- the early rain.

 

[Gary K]

No the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy to one person, Ellen White is not a fulfillment of Joel 2.

, Joel 2 is talking about the "latter rain" in the last days (see Rev 18) and is partially fulfilled in Acts 2- the early rain.

Interesting. I've never seen a SDA with that idea before.

 

[The Liturgist]

I'd like to hit thumbs up and informative, but of course only one will show up

For my part I’d like to hit friendly and winner. I have to confess I miss Siskel and Ebert of blessed memory; it was a simpler era back when you knew a film was worth watching if Siskel and Ebert gave it two thumbs up. Then sadly Siskel died of cancer, and I never liked Roeper’s reviews as much. Fortunately we still have Leonard Maltin…

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting. I've never seen a SDA with that idea before.

There is a great deal of SDA material on the fact that the latter rain is in Rev 18 (which is still future), the latter rain is absolutely future, and that the former rain is in Acts 2 - where both of them are included in what Joel 2 speaks of.

 

[BobRyan]

Ellen White died in 1915. Have other people since then been identified as having the gift of prophecy?

She mentioned other people in her day that had it and there are examples of people given a message/vision/dream from God, but no one since her day has had such a massive outpouring of light given during their life time.

Still,, we have yet to get to the Joel 2 latter rain event.

 

[Leaf473]

She mentioned other people in her day that had it and there are examples of people given a message/vision/dream from God, but no one since her day has had such a massive outpouring of light given during their life time.

Still,, we have yet to get to the Joel 2 latter rain event.

Who are the people identified as having the gift of prophecy?

 

[Gary K]

She mentioned other people in her day that had it and there are examples of people given a message/vision/dream from God, but no one since her day has had such a massive outpouring of light given during their life time.

Still,, we have yet to get to the Joel 2 latter rain event.

How what you just said excludes Ellen White from being part of the latter rain baffles me. God's timing is much different than our perceptions. She also spoke to there being an apparent delay in the return of Jesus which the parable of the ten virgins explains perfectly and so does the condition of our denomination.

 

[BobRyan]

Who are the people identified as having the gift of prophecy?

Rev 12 says that the saints "keep the Commandments of God AND the testimony of Jesus"

Rev 12:
17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the remnant of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 19:
10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brothers and sisters who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

 

[BobRyan]

How what you just said excludes Ellen White from being part of the latter rain baffles me. God's timing is much different than our perceptions. She also spoke to there being an apparent delay in the return of Jesus which the parable of the ten virgins explains perfectly and so does the condition of our denomination.

Ellen White herself speaks of the latter rain as an event still future

 

[Leaf473]

Rev 12 says that the saints "keep the Commandments of God AND the testimony of Jesus"

Rev 12:
17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the remnant of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 19:
10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brothers and sisters who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Thanks, I mean the individuals.

 

[Gary K]

She mentioned other people in her day that had it and there are examples of people given a message/vision/dream from God, but no one since her day has had such a massive outpouring of light given during their life time.

Still,, we have yet to get to the Joel 2 latter rain event.

I have a quote from Ellen White that supports my assertion.

Ellen G. White® Estate: Apparent Delay

whiteestate.org

 

[Gary K]

Thanks, I mean the individuals.

They are no one but students of Ellen Wite's writings have ever heard of. They were given the opportunity to be a prophet but turned down the opportunity through fear no one would believe their message and people would attack them over their message content.

 

[Leaf473]

They are no one but students of Ellen Wite's writings have ever heard of. They were given the opportunity to be a prophet but turned down the opportunity through fear no one would believe their message and people would attack them over their message content.

I see. Looks like they wouldn't be an identifying mark of the remnant Church, then.

 

[BobRyan]

I have a quote from Ellen White that supports my assertion.

Ellen G. White® Estate: Apparent Delay

whiteestate.org

Interesting -- It shows that the delay is not God's fault-- but we are most certainly in that delay.

The commencement of that time of trouble," here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the "latter rain," or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out." EW 85​

​

The great work of the gospel is not to close with less manifestation of the power of God than marked its opening. The prophecies which were fulfilled in the outpouring of the former rain at the opening of the gospel, are again to be fulfilled in the latter rain at its close. . . . {FLB 332.5}​

(That part looks future at least)

 

[Gary K]

Interesting -- It shows that the delay is not God's fault-- but we are most certainly in that delay.

The commencement of that time of trouble," here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the "latter rain," or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out." EW 85​

​

The great work of the gospel is not to close with less manifestation of the power of God than marked its opening. The prophecies which were fulfilled in the outpouring of the former rain at the opening of the gospel, are again to be fulfilled in the latter rain at its close. . . . {FLB 332.5}​

(That part looks future at least)

I agree in part. We are seeing the church growing rapidly everywhere but in North America. This was the main message Conrad Vine came to talk about at our local church and I have personally had multiple personal prayers answered in the past few months.

I don't like talking about it on a site like this one as I fear it will be seen as bragging, but I'm not the only one in our local church to whom this is happening. There are a lot of people witnessing to that. Probably half the congregation is testifying to this and we know God doesn't answer the prayers of the faithless so the HS has to be being poured out.