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DA Allen Bragg Sues Rep Jordon for Interference/Obstruction

ThatRobGuy

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There are certain circumstances where federal committee oversight has a place.

This isn't one of them.

While, in many ways, I do think this is somewhat of a desperate hail mary for Bragg (someone who basically campaigned on the promise to pursue Trump) to "just get him on something" (has sort of an Al Capone vibe), I also don't think federal committee power should be weight that gets thrown around willy-nilly just for the purposes of virtue signaling to the base and bullying people involved in state-level matters when there's not any specific good reason for it.

Knowing Jim Jordan's MO and seeing how he's conducted himself over the past years, I think this is nothing more than an attempt to "send a message". And that message is "Don't you dare try to prosecute someone who's popular on my side, if you do, we're going to make you come to Washington DC so we can make you run the gauntlet, get grilled in hearings, and paint a target on your back & make your life miserable"
 

ThatRobGuy

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Good for Jim Jordan, we finally have someone with backbone. No one is above the law including the DA
Isn't the very notion of "using your federal power to intimidate someone out of prosecuting your buddy so that they're insulated from legal action" trying to make someone "above the law"?

At the end of the day, Bragg and his team presented their case, a grand jury made their decision, and Trump will go to trial. Jim Jordan demanding to get his hands on the evidence, documents, and communications before the actual trial occurs and before the jury has even been selected and been presented the information (and when we're still months away from the next hearing) is pretty transparent in its intent.

To me, it appears Jim Jordan wants to embark on a little "well poisoning" so that it becomes more difficult to select an impartial jury.

In this day in age (where information travels quickly, and often uses punditry as its vehicle), a speedy trial would provide a lot of benefits (apart from just the ones conferred to the accused enumerated by the 6th amendment). Letting these things stretch out for 6 months before a jury is even selected and before the pre-trial hearings take place makes impartial justice very difficult after everyone's been pumped full of partisan propaganda for months on end. Good luck finding a quality jury after half the country is convinced it's a "witch hunt", and half the country is convinced his actions were "the worst thing ever"
 
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DaisyDay

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Say it aint so

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Given Bragg's accurate allegations of Jim Jordan simply being a conduit to inform Trump on what Bragg knows, this is another brick in the wall why Nancy Pelosi didn't want anything to do with Jim Jordan on the Jan6th committee. Because he would have done the same thing. Well, that and he was a subpoenaed witness himself.
 
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Arcangl86

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Also - Eleventh Amendment.
Eleventh Amendment doesn't apply here. It's designed to keep people from suing states, not the federal government. This is probably closer to 10th Amendment.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Isn't the very notion of "using your federal power to intimidate someone out of prosecuting your buddy so that they're insulated from legal action" trying to make someone "above the law"?
If that is what was happening - yes - but it isn't
At the end of the day, Bragg and his team presented their case, a grand jury made their decision, and Trump will go to trial.
As they say "you can indict a ham sandwich with a grand jury".

If the trial ends in Trumps favor - will you say he is innocent?
 
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Hans Blaster

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If that is what was happening - yes - but it isn't

As they say "you can indict a ham sandwich with a grand jury".

If the trial ends in Trumps favor - will you say he is innocent?

Courts don't prove innocence. (Nor is any defendant required to do so to avoid guilt.)

If the ham sandwich in question is found "not guilty" by a jury. I will accept their verdict.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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If that is what was happening - yes - but it isn't
What would you call it?

If I had done something that caused the local prosecutor take on a case against me, if I had contacts or friends at the state level in positions of power, and they started using their power to pester people at the prosecutor's office, and try to get access to documents and communications ahead of time (that goes beyond the normal disclosure that a prosecutor would have to share with my attorney), wouldn't that be something that we could agree is above and beyond what a normal person would have access to in a legal setting?

As they say "you can indict a ham sandwich with a grand jury".

If the trial ends in Trumps favor - will you say he is innocent?
It's not the job of courts to prove a negative. Our system is structured around the concept of erroring on the side of letting someone go. (Blackstone's Ratio as it's called)

Thus the reason the burden is on the prosecution to prove a person is guilty for a specific charge, and not on the defendant to prove they're innocent.

Now if the question is "if the trial ends in Trump's favor, will you say he's s free man and the matter is settled?", then my answer would be yes. (Which is different than asserting innocence).

Much like if a person accidentally kills someone else, if the prosecutor opts to overcharge and go for first degree murder, and loses the case...that doesn't mean the person didn't kill the other person, it just means the prosecutor couldn't prove everything that needed to be proved in order to substantiate the specific charges they filed (in which case the person should go free).


I suspect this case will go in Trump's favor (because I feel the legal approach Bragg is taking is untested, and quite a stretch)...at which point, I entirely expect Trump (and his allies) to use the "Not Guilty" verdict as a means of trying to claim "Not guilty is proof that I never slept with her and never tried to pay hush money", when that's not what a Not Guilty verdict will be signifying in this case.
 
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Always in His Presence

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What would you call it?
I would call it worth looking into.
If I had done something that caused the local prosecutor take on a case against me, if I had contacts or friends at the state level in positions of power, and they started using their power to pester people at the prosecutor's office, and try to get access to documents and communications ahead of time (that goes beyond the normal disclosure that a prosecutor would have to share with my attorney), wouldn't that be something that we could agree is above and beyond what a normal person would have access to in a legal setting?
When if's and but's become candy and nuts everyday will be Christmas. Once charges are set and the defendant is arraigned, the prosecution must participate in discovery - the sharing of all information. So the "getting access" is already happening, or should be.
It's not the job of courts to prove a negative. Our system is structured around the concept of erroring on the side of letting someone go. (Blackstone's Ratio as it's called)
No clue as to what you are referring to - I am not an online law professor and don't play one in real life either.
Thus the reason the burden is on the prosecution to prove a person is guilty for a specific charge, and not on the defendant to prove they're innocent.
That is the truth - even if Nancy Pelosi says otherwise.
Now if the question is "if the trial ends in Trump's favor, will you say he's s free man and the matter is settled?", then my answer would be yes. (Which is different than asserting innocence).
If a person is innocent until proven guilty - and is not proven guilty - he is still innocent
Much like if a person accidentally kills someone else, if the prosecutor opts to overcharge and go for first degree murder, and loses the case...that doesn't mean the person didn't kill the other person, it just means the prosecutor couldn't prove everything that needed to be proved in order to substantiate the specific charges they filed (in which case the person should go free).
Even I know that prosecutors often make multiple charges hoping to prove the worst, but will accept a lessor when it come to a death - this is not about a death - the veracity of the Left died years ago IMHO.
I suspect this case will go in Trump's favor (because I feel the legal approach Bragg is taking is untested, and quite a stretch)...at which point, I entirely expect Trump (and his allies) to use the "Not Guilty" verdict as a means of trying to claim "Not guilty is proof that I never slept with her and never tried to pay hush money", when that's not what a Not Guilty verdict will be signifying in this case.
Well that and past statement from both Trump and her saying it didn't happen. Remember this has been going back and forth for years.

Again - if a person is innocent until proven guilty and never found guilty, they are innocent in the eyes of the law.
 
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SimplyMe

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No, actually I have. You simply made the unsubstantiated claim that the law isn't in effect anymore.

And it is patently obvious to anyone that Bragg is simply harassing Trump. He charged him with a litany of misdemeanors that the statutes of limitations have expired on. Then to try to get around that he elevated the charges to felonies without explaining what precisely the felonies were. The entire world is laughing at him for even bringing the charges. And has been said before, after all the time and expense he has wasted on this with only that to show for it, Trump must be the most honest businessman in New York.

I'm sorry -- you seemed to be claiming to be an "expert" on the Ku Klux Klan law, so I assumed you knew the history of the law, how Section 2 was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in United States v Harris. And so Congress repealed that portion of the law, modifying it a bit so that the aggrieved party could sue those that were violating their civil rights, becoming 42 U.S.C. § 1985 (otherwise known as Section 1985). Forgive me for thinking you knew a little something about what you were talking about, rather than talking out of the other end of your body.

There is always hope - the cases and investigations and inquiries against Trump stand at o and 1,260 - but hey! There is always hope something might actually succeed.

Hope? It isn't going to change my life is Trump is convicted or not. Though I do find your stats questionable, particularly if you include cases like Trump University, Trump Foundation, etc.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Hope? It isn't going to change my life is Trump is convicted or not. Though I do find your stats questionable, particularly if you include cases like Trump University, Trump Foundation, etc.
My states have been previously posted and supported with links - enjoy!
 
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essentialsaltes

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A(nother) challenger appears.

1681343863232.png
 
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ThatRobGuy

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A(nother) challenger appears.

View attachment 330064
Clearly a partisan publicity stunt...but one that Bragg may have opened himself up to if I'm being honest.

When a major city prosecutor has a track record of reducing over 50% of felonies to misdemeanors (including armed robberies), he's making it tough for me to defend his actions against (what I feel) are hack partisan attacks.

Is there an option C)... where I can say that Jim Jordan and Andy Biggs are engaging in partisan hackery (in the name of Trump loyalty) while still saying that Bragg isn't a great prosecutor?
 
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BPPLEE

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You do not need to be a member of a protected class to have your civil rights violated. To assert that is to assert that anyone who is not a member of a protected class has no civil rights.
In reality that’s the way it seems to be working out. Ask Ashli Babbitt
 
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Ana the Ist

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Hans Blaster

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Is there an option C)... where I can say that Jim Jordan and Andy Biggs are engaging in partisan hackery (in the name of Trump loyalty) while still saying that Bragg isn't a great prosecutor?

Of course you can make that choice. Both can be true. (The partisan hackery of Biggs and Jordan is quite obvious to anyone but Trump defenders.) You can think Bragg is undercharging other crimes and this charge is justified. You can think the charges are legit even if Bragg's motives were not. You can think Trump is clearly guilty of the basic false business records and have serious questions about the elevation to felony and/or the statute of limitations.

Thankfully, there are more options than

[Trump is pure and innocent, Biggs and Jordan are fully justified, and Bragg is a political hack out for revenge]

--or--

[Trump is guilty and should do 34*4 years in prison, Biggs and Jordan are committing obstruction crimes, and Bragg is the greatest, purest prosecutor of all time]
 
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Ana the Ist

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I just looked at it and found nothing giving Congress the right to oversee a criminal indictment issued by a state court. The part you appear to be talking about would only allow ex-Pres. Trump to sue DA Bragg and the City of New York for violation of his civil rights -- though I'm not sure what grounds Trump has for that suit. Everything I see in the suit, when it talks about individuals abusing their offices to deny civil rights, grants the ability for them to be sued in the courts -- not for Congress to take action against those individuals.

And, again, the only reason the Act could be invoked is if a person's civil rights have been violated. If the courts allow Trump to sue Bragg merely for using a Grand Jury to bring an indictment, then the courts will be filled with cases where most every criminal defendant will sue the DA for violating their civil rights by indicting them.

Ahem...


You got a woke DA, out for Trump's blood, gets a seat in an office that already decided that they didn't have enough to pursue charges on....

And now suddenly he's throwing the book and any other book in reach at Trump for what seems like may be personal ambitions. That's a pretty decent case for malicious prosecution.

The person who Jordan called to testify was under the old DA and left when they wouldn't bring charges against Trump....and now quit a private practice to work under Bragg.

This accusation of interference would hold more weight if the guy didn't already write a book about it.

Congress isn't charging him with anything, but if they're pursuing this rather inflated set of charges against Trump while letting armed robbers off light....yeah, it seems likely that this is malicious prosecution, and Bragg should be disbarred.
 
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Say it aint so

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Ahem...


You got a woke DA, out for Trump's blood, gets a seat in an office that already decided that they didn't have enough to pursue charges on....

And now suddenly he's throwing the book and any other book in reach at Trump for what seems like may be personal ambitions. That's a pretty decent case for malicious prosecution.

The person who Jordan called to testify was under the old DA and left when they wouldn't bring charges against Trump....and now quit a private practice to work under Bragg.

This accusation of interference would hold more weight if the guy didn't already write a book about it.

Congress isn't charging him with anything, but if they're pursuing this rather inflated set of charges against Trump while letting armed robbers off light....yeah, it seems likely that this is malicious prosecution, and Bragg should be disbarred.
Well no. They didn't decide there wasn't enough to charge Trump, the prior DA was requested to stand down by the Trump DOJ.
Moreover, Cohen went to jail for being part of this scheme. I am not sure why anyone would be surprised the person named in his indictment as "individual-1" in co-conspiracy acts would be charged as well. I know people use "woke" to mean anything they don't like, but this is just the continuation from where the prior DA left off after he was told to stand down.
 
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SimplyMe

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Ahem...


You realize that link has absolutely zero to do with what was being discussed -- which was the Ku Klux Klan Act. As such, your reference is irrelevant to that discussion. Additionally, your link doesn't actually go to a particular law, much less a federal law. It is a catch all to help people who feel they have been "maliciously prosecuted" to find a lawyer, so they can find out if they have a case in their state.

Additionally, there is little chance that a malicious prosecution charge could be brought against Bragg -- for the simple fact that the indictment came through a Grand Jury. In this case, a Grand Jury believed there was enough probable cause to indict Trump, which largely insulates Bragg from any type of malicious prosecution lawsuits.

You got a woke DA, out for Trump's blood, gets a seat in an office that already decided that they didn't have enough to pursue charges on....

You need to look again. As I previously have pointed out, the decision "not to prosecute" was not the previous DA. Instead, Bragg. From the previously linked NY Times article, "Mr. Pomerantz described his view of Mr. Trump’s actions as plainly criminal, as well as his frustrations with Mr. Bragg when he took office in 2022 and did not charge Mr. Trump. That decision led Mr. Pomerantz and another of the investigation’s leaders, Carey Dunne, to resign."

So the "woke DA" previously chose not to prosecute former Pres. Trump, so once he finds better evidence to create his case he shouldn't be allowed to bring it? That seems to be what you are arguing. And I fail to see how that makes him "woke."

And now suddenly he's throwing the book and any other book in reach at Trump for what seems like may be personal ambitions. That's a pretty decent case for malicious prosecution.

Again, as I noted above, it really isn't. As I understand the process in NY state for Felony charges, if the DA had just brought the charges himself (not presented the case to a Grand Jury) there would be a probable cause hearing to determine if there is enough evidence to proceed to the trial stage. It is only after a probable cause hearing, if it is found there is not enough evidence to proceed to trial, that a DA could be sued for malicious prosecution.

Again, DA Bragg went through a Grand Jury -- it is the Grand Jury that produced the indictment. As such, former Pres. Trump will not get a probable cause hearing as the Grand Jury already decided that there is. As such, DA Bragg cannot be "guilty" of Malicious Prosecution (I put guilty in quotes because it is a civil offense, not a criminal one in NY) since it was found by the Grand Jury that probable cause exists.

The person who Jordan called to testify was under the old DA and left when they wouldn't bring charges against Trump....and now quit a private practice to work under Bragg.

This accusation of interference would hold more weight if the guy didn't already write a book about it.

Congress isn't charging him with anything, but if they're pursuing this rather inflated set of charges against Trump while letting armed robbers off light....yeah, it seems likely that this is malicious prosecution, and Bragg should be disbarred.

As I noted above, and in a previous post on this thread, it was not the "previous DA," it was DA Bragg that didn't bring charges. While I speculate it is because he found better evidence, that is a guess. Again, the Federal Government allegedly (no actual reasons were given on the record, just unnamed sources) did not prosecute because they felt the verdict would rest on the testimony of Trump's Former Lawyer Michael Cohen; and with his previous lies and conviction, they did not believe the jury would find him credible. Allegedly, (again, no on the record sources), DA Bragg has various records and recordings that he believes will support the case, so the case will not rest solely on the testimony of Cohen -- so while he previously declined to prosecute, fearing the jury would not believe Cohen, he now believes with the extra records he can get a conviction.

Now there may be a different reason why Bragg declined earlier and is proceeding now, regardless, the fact remains he didn't prosecute Trump previously, so something has apparently changed such that he is proceeding now -- it doesn't make him "woke" nor does it mean that the charges are "inflated."
 
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Say it aint so

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Just so it's clear.
The Manhattan DA case that caused Mr. Pomerantz to quit because Bragg was slow to move, was not the hush money porn star case. It was the case of Trump overstating the value of his properties for loans, and understating them for tax purposes.

 
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