Trump To Take Action After Ohio Train Disaster

[variant]

What mistake did someone in management make in the railroad case? Video indicates that it was a faulty wheelset that caused the problem. Seems to be a maintenance or inspection issue.

Running companies with as few people as possible and not investing in the best possible safety systems.

You know, the usual.

US rail industry defends safety record amid staffing cuts

Several major unions say the significant staff cuts railroads have made in recent years could jeopardize safety, but the major railroads say the new operating model they have adopted is simply helping them become more efficient and hasn’t made the railroads riskier.

apnews.com

So, for the past few years they have been running longer trains with fewer people and less maintenance, and lobbied the government so they didn't have to invest in more safety precautions.

 

[variant]

"consumers enjoying artificially low expenses/prices"
Have you actually been to a grocery store lately?

We didn't start heavily regulating egg's and beef in the past few years so your explanation seems soft.

On the other hand, if you want lax safety so that you can get cheaper eggs then it's odd to complain about how the government doesn't or can't come charging in with guns blazing whenever an industry messes up royally. You should expect disasters to occur because industry will cut costs to themselves in the short term and try to socialize all responsibility or the fallout should catastrophe occur.

 

[Aldebaran]

frequently

Then tell us all what stores we can enjoy these "artificially low expenses/prices". I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to shop at such a place. Maybe I could finally buy eggs for 99 cents again instead of $4.68/dozen.

 

[Aldebaran]

We didn't start heavily regulating egg's and beef in the past few years so your explanation seems soft.

That's why adding fines/fees/regulations/operating costs to transportation of eggs (and everything else) is what makes the price of eggs (and everything else) go up and up.

 

[Aldebaran]

I mean, you don't really want the electric company's negligence burning half the state down either.

And they don't. Lax forestry management does that.

 

[Aldebaran]

Just moments ago you were complaining about "how costs go up for the consumer when companies are "choked to death"" by regulations.

In your perfect world, would the railroad pay for this accident (and then raise prices for freight that will be passed on to consumers) or is the railroad not going to pay for this to keep prices low?

In your perfect world, would it have been better to have the railroads pay for more highly regulated transport that might have avoided this catastrophe, and people paid higher prices all along? Or is it better that people paid lower prices for a while, and a mere handful of Ohioans are going to have a few bonus cancers?

Go back to post #123 to see what argument I was responding to.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Then tell us all what stores we can enjoy these "artificially low expenses/prices". I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to shop at such a place. Maybe I could finally buy eggs for 99 cents again instead of $4.68/dozen.

You enjoy artificially low prices at every store that accepts shipments from railroads not taking sufficient precautions against harming their neighbors and the environment - every railroad that lets taxpayers and residents bear at least some of the cost of these accidents. If railroads picked up all of these costs, prices would be even higher.

 

[Aldebaran]

You enjoy artificially low prices at every store that accepts shipments from railroads not taking sufficient precautions against harming their neighbors and the environment - every railroad that lets taxpayers and residents bear at least some of the cost of these accidents. If railroads picked up all of these costs, prices would be even higher.

So you're not satisfied with the already high prices we're already paying?

 

[iluvatar5150]

So you're not satisfied with the already high prices we're already paying?

If railroads are off-loading the costs of doing business onto innocent third parties, then no, I'm not satisfied. Prices should be higher.

The concept of negative externalities and the way they distort markets is literally Economics 101.

 

[Aldebaran]

If railroads are off-loading the costs of doing business onto innocent third parties, then no, I'm not satisfied. Prices should be higher.

The concept of negative externalities and the way they distort markets is literally Economics 101.

Well, some of us who aren't rich don't have the luxury of paying prices that are already inflated.
Also, you may be interested to know that railroad accidents are actually declining, regardless of the narrative being pushed by the MSM:

FRA - Retired

safetydata.fra.dot.gov

 

[iluvatar5150]

Well, some of us who aren't rich don't have the luxury of paying prices that are already inflated.

Are you happy that you're off-loading some of your expenses onto unsuspecting third parties? I thought that sort of free-loading was anathema to conservative ideals.

Also, you may be interested to know that railroad accidents are actually declining, regardless of the narrative being pushed by the MSM:

FRA - Retired

safetydata.fra.dot.gov

That's good. I don't recall making a comment about changes in the rates of accidents over time.

 

[Aldebaran]

Are you happy that you're off-loading some of your expenses onto unsuspecting third parties? I thought that sort of free-loading was anathema to conservative ideals.

I'm doing no such thing.

That's good. I don't recall making a comment about changes in the rates of accidents over time.

Nor did you have to. However, being educated about such things would teach you that railroad safety isn't being ignored by the industry as you seem to be insinuating.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I'm doing no such thing.

You've spent several posts complaining about the higher costs that would result from forcing railroads to pay more for accident cleanup and/or preventative measures. Norfolk Southern has forced the residents of East Palestine to bear at least some of the costs of NS' business operations.

Unless I've misunderstood you and your philosophy on this, free-loading is exactly what you're advocating.

Nor did you have to. However, being educated about such things would teach you that railroad safety isn't being ignored by the industry as you seem to be insinuating.

I didn't say it was being ignored entirely.

That said, I looked through your link a bit and it appears that incident numbers held pretty for several years (derailments in the 1200-1300/yr range) before dropping quite a bit in 2020 (to 1000-1050/yr), and they've held steady since. If I had to guess, I'd put that decline on reduced demand from COVID. Improvements stemming from safety protocols would likely have been more gradual.

 

[Aldebaran]

You've spent several posts complaining about the higher costs that would result from forcing railroads to pay more for accident cleanup and/or preventative measures. Norfolk Southern has forced the residents of East Palestine to bear at least some of the costs of NS' business operations.

Unless I've misunderstood you and your philosophy on this, free-loading is exactly what you're advocating.

That would only be the case if you're advocating for the redefinition of that term.

I didn't say it was being ignored entirely.

That said, I looked through your link a bit and it appears that incident numbers held pretty for several years (derailments in the 1200-1300/yr range) before dropping quite a bit in 2020 (to 1000-1050/yr), and they've held steady since. If I had to guess, I'd put that decline on reduced demand from COVID. Improvements stemming from safety protocols would likely have been more gradual.

Not likely. Covid didn't reduce the demand for goods. Maybe from physical stores, but the demand shifted to online. So the goods still needed to be shipped, and trains are used to ship 40% of all goods.

 

[Desk trauma]

And this is it, exactly. I can't help but think of a couple of examples in popular media…

Hey, want a real world one? Fluor, a Fortune 500 construction and engineering company , had a fully owned subsidiary called AMECO. They owned it rusty lock, cracked stock and bent barrel. AMECO owned every power tool, manlift, piece of rigging and moving equipment used on Fluor job sites.

Poorly maintained tool mangled you?
Rigging broke and the load crushed you?
Manlift malfunctioned and smashed you into the structure or ground?
Don’t look at Fluor and their billions for compensation, talk to the folks in the much smaller and less well heeled offices of AMECO.

 

[iluvatar5150]

That would only be the case if you're advocating for the redefinition of that term.

You don't understand what negative externalities are, do you?

Not likely. Covid didn't reduce the demand for goods. Maybe from physical stores, but the demand shifted to online. So the goods still needed to be shipped, and trains are used to ship 40% of all goods.

You're right - "demand" was the wrong word to use. I should've said reduced "traffic", which can be impacted by not just demand but also the supply of goods and labor, both of which have been problematic since the beginning of the pandemic.

 

[Aldebaran]

You don't understand what negative externalities are, do you?

Such as a train tooting its horn and waking people up at night when approaching a crossing (as mandated by the government)?
Everything someone does affects someone else in some way. Even stepping on an ant could change results for all mankind a thousand years later.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Such as a train tooting its horn and waking people up at night when approaching a crossing (as mandated by the government)?
Everything someone does affects someone else in some way. Even stepping on an ant could change results for all mankind a thousand years later.

I’ll take that as a No.

 

[Aldebaran]

I’ll take that as a No.

You mean a train tooting its horn and waking people up is not a negative externality?

A negative externality exists when the production or consumption of a product results in a cost to a third party. Air and noise pollution are commonly cited examples of negative externalities. Negative externality | economics

Or are you going to change the definition of the term? Let me know so we can discuss this while being on the same page.

 

[variant]

That's why adding fines/fees/regulations/operating costs to transportation of eggs (and everything else) is what makes the price of eggs (and everything else) go up and up.

We didn't start doing that either. If anything these have been more lax.

To explain the inflation of the past few years you'd have to talk about what has changed, and it hasn't been the scope or enforcement of regulations.

A lot of food comes from the west where it isn't raining anymore driving up fruit and vegetable prices. Eggs come from chickens that are having historic bird flu. Sunflowers come from Ukraine driving up food oil prices so butter is more expensive. Coffee is from South America that has been having a lot of weather issues. Oil and natural gas come from Russia driving up energy prices. Fertilizer comes from Belarus. Covid caused supply chain disruption and helped slow the largest manufacturing economy in the world in China that supplies us with cheap goods.

What new regulations are causing inflation?

Tracking regulatory changes in the second Trump administration | Brookings

How much regulation is happening under the Trump administration? This tracker helps you monitor a selection of delayed, repealed, and new rules, notable guidance and policy implementations, and important court battles covering energy, health, labor, and more.

www.brookings.edu

I honestly can't make your case with those.