Different kinds of healing?

[Trivalee]

Really, because sometimes Jesus didn't even cite the book. He just said, "it's written," or, "haven't you read?". It was the hearer's responsibility to know where.

You are not Jesus, are you?

 

[jiminpa]

You are not Jesus, are you?

No, and I don't always remember exactly where a verse is. That, and often the randomly numbered verses distract from the larger context.

 

[ARBITER01]

My own personal opinion is that perhaps Jesus' reference with healing as a sign, was not necessarily meant on an individual basis. But more like, if you see this group of people that are speaking in tongues and they have healings manifest, they are true believers. Whereas Paul's discussion on the subject in 1 Cor 12 is more about the individual believer. How some will have the gift/manifestation as healing.

So Jesus was speaking about the body as a whole and a way of discerning true Spirit filled believers, and Paul was speaking on an individual basis.

Has enough conversation been stimulated or should we argue more?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Has enough conversation been stimulated or should we argue more?

Continue to argue of course. Thats the norm around CF anyway. You know, a group of Christians would argue over anything anymore. Individuals get so bullheaded and refuse to even consider their opinion on theology and doctrine may possibly be wrong. Then they have to talk down others who have a differing view. I asked a simple question, but yet it turns into "arguing more".

 

[ARBITER01]

Continue to argue of course. Thats the norm around CF anyway. You know, a group of Christians would argue over anything anymore. Individuals get so bullheaded and refuse to even consider their opinion on theology and doctrine may possibly be wrong. Then they have to talk down others who have a differing view. I asked a simple question, but yet it turns into "arguing more".

Lolol,... brother it's been like that for a long time around here, and we can't expect it to change.

Each of us has their differing levels of maturity and experience, so this is all that can be expected here. The best thing though, is for each of us to work on drawing near unto Jesus. This little circus sideshow is not to be in His way.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Continue to argue of course. Thats the norm around CF anyway. You know, a group of Christians would argue over anything anymore. Individuals get so bullheaded and refuse to even consider their opinion on theology and doctrine may possibly be wrong. Then they have to talk down others who have a differing view. I asked a simple question, but yet it turns into "arguing more".

Lolol,... brother it's been like that for a long time around here, and we can't expect it to change.

Each of us has their differing levels of maturity and experience, so this is all that can be expected here. The best thing though, is for each of us to work on drawing near unto Jesus. This little circus sideshow is not to be in His way.

tbf, it's been like that all throughout Christendom, even in the Bible Paul and Peter nearly came to blows over their theological differences. Santa punched Arius (or one of his followers) in the face at the Council of Nicea and if you read accounts of debates and differences of opinions during the early church and really even up into modern times...we're pretty tame here by comparison.

 

[lismore]

Some years ago I read the journal of Alvar Nuñez Cabeza de Vaca. He was a Spanish explorer who was shipwrecked in 1527 on the coast of what is now Texas. He gained a reputation as a faith healer by praying over Indians and asking Jesus to heal them, the healing was instrumental in his survival. Was an interesting read. Some people didn't believe his journal at the time, especially the part about healing Indians, but he ended up as a judge in Spain.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Happened then, and it is happening now. People resist the faith. Good to know Paul and the others did it on a regular basis. Realize that sometimes they succeed in resisting the truth. Should we expect anything different?

Jude 1:3
3. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Philippians 1:27
27. Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Acts 9:22
22. But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

Acts 17:2-5
2. And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3. Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Acts 28:23
23. And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 13:8
8. But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

Galatians 2:11
11. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

2 Timothy 3:8
8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 4:14-15
14. Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
15. Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I believe anyone who is chosen out for GOD to operate in great amounts of His power will be properly trained on that topic,... the glory of GOD.

We are but imperfect vessels that He has chosen to operate through, and it is a privilege for this to happen through us. But we must maintain the position that it's not about us. GOD's glory includes the aspect that it is His decision and His work to accomplish through you. You are not involved other than to allow it to happen. It is to be Him operating the gifts and Him speaking,.... not you.

There have been saints who were led into looking at themselves just a little bit too much by other Christians and society over the years, and it led to their eventual downfall. It takes a strong mind and a strong will to not allow other people to be used by satan against you. It other words, you need to immediately know when to push them away from you.

I guess I prefer to emphasise the 'with' rather than the 'through' when it comes to the Spirit ministering.

Sure there are times when He works by somehow empowering you for a purpose - but at other times you see Him move despite yourself.

Emphasising being a 'Channel of God's power' places too much attention on the individual.

I have seen wonderful things happen as I have prayed - but this gives no guarantee of Him moving tomorow - expecting can lead to the presumption of the flesh very quickly.

 

[lismore]

Sometimes healing occurs spectacularly, like Jesus or one of the apostles. Sometimes a person is prayed for and there is a more gradual trajectory. Like a chap seriously ill of pneumonia who is prayed for and at once begins to get well, though it might take a few days for a complete recovery the corner was turned at that moment of prayer. God Bless

 

[ARBITER01]

Emphasizing being a 'Channel of God's power' places too much attention on the individual.

Really?

I don't think anyone would refuse to walk in the power that was flowing through Peter as he walked by people and they were healed. That right there is true divine healing, not this faith healing being promoted on here at times.

The example is Jesus no matter what, and yes,..... that requires us,... ie individuals, to learn how to do those things that Jesus did, and even greater things.

Too many people and churches nowadays think that they can just bypass this example from Jesus unto us and just go to GOD directly on everything,.... well guess what, that is not GOD's plan. Never was.

He wants to work through us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Really?

I don't think anyone would refuse to walk in the power that was flowing through Peter as he walked by people and they were healed. That right there is true divine healing, not this faith healing being promoted on here at times.

The example is Jesus no matter what, and yes,..... that requires us,... ie individuals, to learn how to do those things that Jesus did, and even greater things.

Too many people and churches nowadays think that they can just bypass this example from Jesus unto us and just go to GOD directly on everything,.... well guess what, that is not GOD's plan. Never was.

He wants to work through us.

I don't recall saying one should refuse to be empowered by God....

I don't recall saying we should ignore the example of Jesus....

Jesus only did what He saw the father doing and this is rarely taught.

Sometimes He works through us - sometimes He works despite us.


My faith is less inhibited by keeping me out of the equation.

 

[ARBITER01]

My faith is less inhibited by keeping me out of the equation.

That is true. It's not about us it's about Him, but He has decided to operate through us to His glory, He doesn't do it apart from us.

Your statement you made about it being too much about the individual is really just a sort of cop out that most people make to divert themselves from the responsibility of holiness. It always involves the individual,...... to the edification of the corporate whole, but that person must be able to step aside inside and allow it to be GOD instead of them,... and that requires holiness.

It's the whole purpose of being anointed upon and The Holy Spirit resting upon a person,... so that GOD can do the work, otherwise it is just you trying to do things in the name of Jesus.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That is true. It's not about us it's about Him, but He has decided to operate through us to His glory, He doesn't do it apart from us.

Cant say I agree with this...

I have known folks to be healed in isolation with no 'intermediary' in fact I have experienced this myself.

He doesn't always use a human agent.

I would never limit my hope in Him healing based on my own self assessment.

While some might use this to avoid accountability for holiness, this is not my issue.

It freaks me out to see young folk set aside for ministry, with confidence in their appointment, encouraged to exercise the 'authority' they have been given yet devoid of the necessary discernment and experience to see what the Father is doing.

The still small voice is becoming a rare commodity in this world of action.

 

[dqhall]

In Mark 16 Jesus calls healing a sign that followers believers

In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul names healings as a manifestation (gift) of the Spirit.

What is the difference between the two? Do you have personal testimony bearing such evidence?

Healing is from the Holy Spirit. Signs of healing and manifestation of healings are synonymous. Some Christians have been called to study medicine. Vaccines, pharmaceuticals and surgeries have saved many lives. Not all receive the same vocational training.

Some were called to be witnesses of divine healing. Guideposts Magazine published accounts of miraculous healings. Craig S. Keener researched miraculous healings and became a Christian in the process. He wrote a book: Miracles Today: The Supernatural Work of God in the Modern World. I read the Kindle version after someone in CF recommended it.

People were healed by divine intervention as people were made to give up unhealthy habits like gluttony, alcoholism, drug addiction, fighting and reckless driving. Christians may care enough to warn others of the perils of unhealthy behavior. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

There are also preachers for profit who faked healings to try to increase their income. Peter Popoff was accused of fraudulent acts of healing.

During the Welsh Revival of 1904: “Stories of profanity silenced, theaters deserted, courts abandoned due to a lack of crime, and bars shutting down were commonplace.”
History & Heritage: The 1904 Welsh Revival – BCW

Some preachers are genuine.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

During the Welsh Revival of 1904: “

'The Welsh Revival' had impact/influence..on Revivals/Awakening in several countries..in Scandinavia..
- & North America.
- Asia, Africa & Latin America.

 

[YahuahSaves]

In Mark 16 Jesus calls healing a sign that followers believers

In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul names healings as a manifestation (gift) of the Spirit.

What is the difference between the two? Do you have personal testimony bearing such evidence?

My father was miraculously healed of emphysema after prayers from my mother (newly born-again believer) I would equate that with the first example.

The second is a gift that can only operate through the Holy Spirit. I've not witnessed healings in this way but have had a discernment of spirits where the Holy Spirit directed me.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I'm only referencing how Jesus calls healing a sign of believers in Mark 16, but Paul calls healing a manifestation of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12. It's entirely possible the two are the same, just curious if there's something that differentiates between the two.

I believe it's all through the Holy Spirit. Apart from God, we can do nothing.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

My father was miraculously healed of emphysema after prayers from my mother (newly born-again believer) I would equate that with the first example.

The second is a gift that can only operate through the Holy Spirit. I've not witnessed healings in this way but have had a discernment of spirits where the Holy Spirit directed me.

i could see that. How our prayers (like in James 5) can help heal someone, and that is a sign that we are believers.

Thank you

 

[ARBITER01]

Cant say I agree with this...

I have known folks to be healed in isolation with no 'intermediary' in fact I have experienced this myself.

He doesn't always use a human agent.

I would never limit my hope in Him healing based on my own self assessment.

While some might use this to avoid accountability for holiness, this is not my issue.

It freaks me out to see young folk set aside for ministry, with confidence in their appointment, encouraged to exercise the 'authority' they have been given yet devoid of the necessary discernment and experience to see what the Father is doing.

The still small voice is becoming a rare commodity in this world of action.

You make some good points, let me reiterate this a bit,..

Certainly GOD is more than capable of healing individually, but what He wants to do is heal in a greater capacity, and that's where the individual comes in, where He uses the gifts of healings within a person to affect greater amounts of people, like what we read of with Peter.

To me, that was the plan for the assembly, since The Holy Spirit listed gifts of healings as a ministry,...

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and severally members thereof.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues.

For some reason I've seen, or heard on worship songs, people thinking that they can call upon The Holy Spirit to move in an assembly and do the healing,.... that's not biblical. I don't know where this came from, other than some people thinking that they can just bypass the ministry a person should have in their assembly and go to GOD directly all the time.

That sort of ministry is sorely missing from the corporate body right now, big time.