The Biblical Basis of 10 Catholic Distinctives

[Berserk]

I am an evangelical Methodist who grew up Pentecostal. But for 12 years I was a Theology Professor at a Catholic university. Readers who have followed my critical posts in the Perpetual Virginity thread may be surprised by my positive perspective on Catholic spirituality. I have even won a lawsuit against Catholics! Despite this, I believe there is no Christian spirituality superior to Catholic spirituality at its best and I prefer to ponder the relevance of the biblical basis for this spirituality to my own Christian journey. Sadly, many evangelicals assess Catholic spirituality only on the basis of its worst exemplars and know nothing of how informed Catholics might support their distinctives on biblical grounds. So in this thread I will take a sympathetic look at the biblical basis for 10 Catholic distinctives. In the interests of coherent and focused discussion, I only ask posters to confine their comments to the distinctive under currrent discussion. In my next planned post I will begin with the biblical basis for the Catholic use of Holy Water.

This thread will sequentially discuss the biblical underpinnings of these 10 Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I am an evangelical Methodist who grew up Pentecostal. But for 12 years I was a Theology Professor at a Catholic university. Readers who have followed my critical posts in the Perpetual Virginity thread may be surprised by my positive perspective on Catholic spirituality. I have even won a lawsuit against Catholics! Despite this, I believe there is no Christian spirituality superior to Catholic spirituality at its best and I prefer to ponder the relevance of the biblical basis for this spirituality to my own Christian journey. Sadly, many evangelicals assess Catholic spirituality only on the basis of its worst exemplars and know nothing of how informed Catholics might support their distinctives on biblical grounds. So in this thread I will take a sympathetic look at the biblical basis for 10 Catholic distinctives. In the interests of coherent and focused discussion, I only ask posters to confine their comments to the distinctive under currrent discussion. In my next planned post I will begin with the biblical basis for the Catholic use of Holy Water.

This thread will sequentially discuss the biblical underpinnings of these 10 Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition

What would you like other posters to say ? We are very familiar with Catholic distictives. Thanks for sharing. Blessings.

Edit: I'll be patient.

 

[Clare73]

I am an evangelical Methodist who grew up Pentecostal. But for 12 years I was a Theology Professor at a Catholic university. Readers who have followed my critical posts in the Perpetual Virginity thread may be surprised by my positive perspective on Catholic spirituality. I have even won a lawsuit against Catholics! Despite this, I believe there is no Christian spirituality superior to Catholic spirituality

I have a slightly different take in that it's not about particular Catholic practices, but about the nature of Catholicism at the customer level.

I find less materialism and worldliness in most Catholics, more sense of the spiritual, more reverence, more submissiveness, and a sobriety in their thinking, which is what I mean by Catholic spirituality.

at its best and I prefer to ponder the relevance of the biblical basis for this spirituality to my own Christian journey. Sadly, many evangelicals assess Catholic spirituality only on the basis of its worst exemplars and know nothing of how informed Catholics might support their distinctives on biblical grounds. So in this thread I will take a sympathetic look at the biblical basis for 10 Catholic distinctives. In the interests of coherent and focused discussion, I only ask posters to confine their comments to the distinctive under currrent discussion. In my next planned post I will begin with the biblical basis for the Catholic use of Holy Water.

This thread will sequentially discuss the biblical underpinnings of these 10 Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition

 

[Berserk]

(1) THE BIBLICAL INSPIRATION FOR THE USE OF HOLY WATER:

The underlying principles for Catholic sprinkling with Holy Water are the various uses of sacred water in God's Word to bless, purify, heal, or establish innocence. The Apostolic Constitutions (c. 400 AD) trace the priestly use of Holy Water to the Apostle Matthew and thus attests the great antiquity of the Church's use of Holy Water. The first biblical reference to "Holy Water" can be found in Num. 5:16-19. Drinking it will exonorate the innocent and bring curse on the guilty. On certain occasions, bathing in ritual water can purify someone and refusing to use this water retains guilt (e. g. Lev. 17:15-16). Blessed water can unleash healing power. Naaman reluctantly obeys Elisha's command to immerse himself 7 times in the Jordan to heal his leprosy (2 Kings 5:10, 14). In the NT the Pool of Bethzatha has healing efficacy when it is stirred up (John 5:7). Jesus recognizes the healing power of blessed water by using spittle to heal the blind and the dead (John 9:6-7). But the blind man in John 9:6-7 also needs to wash in the blessed waters of the Pool of Siloam to compete his healing.

My next planned post will testify to modern examples of the various types of spiritual power of holy water.

 

[The Liturgist]

I am an evangelical Methodist who grew up Pentecostal. But for 12 years I was a Theology Professor at a Catholic university. Readers who have followed my critical posts in the Perpetual Virginity thread may be surprised by my positive perspective on Catholic spirituality. I have even won a lawsuit against Catholics! Despite this, I believe there is no Christian spirituality superior to Catholic spirituality at its best and I prefer to ponder the relevance of the biblical basis for this spirituality to my own Christian journey. Sadly, many evangelicals assess Catholic spirituality only on the basis of its worst exemplars and know nothing of how informed Catholics might support their distinctives on biblical grounds. So in this thread I will take a sympathetic look at the biblical basis for 10 Catholic distinctives. In the interests of coherent and focused discussion, I only ask posters to confine their comments to the distinctive under currrent discussion. In my next planned post I will begin with the biblical basis for the Catholic use of Holy Water.

This thread will sequentially discuss the biblical underpinnings of these 10 Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory

Of these initial eight, I think the only one I would disagree with is purgatory, because we don’t see it discussed by the Greek or Syrian fathers even in exhaustive works like the Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by St. John Damascene. However, there are a cluster of related doctrines which I believe were inadvertantly misinterpreted in the early scholastic period by the likes of Anselm and Aquinas.

All the rest I think we can affirm, except I would take the Eastern Orthodox view that there is no need for the doctrine of Immaculate Conception in the case of the Blessed Virgin Mary in order for her to be sinless, and this doctrine was somewhat prompted by the preferential use of the writings of St. Augustine rather than St. John Cassian vs. Pelagius.

However, I would say there can be no doubt that holy water, relics, the intercession of the saints, the perpetual virginity of the Mother of God, the practice of auricular confession, the baptism of infants, and the Eucharist being the actual body and blood of our Lord are scriptural.

 

[The Liturgist]

(1) THE BIBLICAL INSPIRATION FOR THE USE OF HOLY WATER:

The underlying principles for Catholic sprinkling with Holy Water are the various uses of sacred water in God's Word to bless, purify, heal, or establish innocence. The Apostolic Constitutions (c. 400 AD) trace the priestly use of Holy Water to the Apostle Matthew and thus attests the great antiquity of the Church's use of Holy Water. The first biblical reference to "Holy Water" can be found in Num. 5:16-19. Drinking it will exonorate the innocent and bring curse on the guilty. On certain occasions, bathing in ritual water can purify someone and refusing to use this water retains guilt (e. g. Lev. 17:15-16). Blessed water can unleash healing power. Naaman reluctantly obeys Elisha's command to immerse himself 7 times in the Jordan to heal his leprosy (2 Kings 5:10, 14). In the NT the Pool of Bethzatha has healing efficacy when it is stirred up (John 5:7). Jesus recognizes the healing power of blessed water by using spittle to heal the blind and the dead (John 9:6-7). But the blind man in John 9:6-7 also needs to wash in the blessed waters of the Pool of Siloam to compete his healing.

My next planned post will testify to modern examples of the various types of spiritual power of holy water.

Absolutely. I can personally attest to the importance of Holy Water.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Absolutely. I can personally attest to the importance of Holy Water.

I always smile when I encounter references to Holy Water. In the Catholic Cathedral of St. Paul, Minnesota there is a typical water spigot in an interior wall. Above it, carved in lovely lettering in the stone is "HOLY WATER". I have reason to think that the water supply emitted from the spigot originated with the public water utility of St. Paul, Minnesota and that the water simply becomes holy by passing through the spigot.

 

[Berserk]

@bbbbbbb
You do realize that water must be formally blessed in a priestly ritual before it becomes "Holy Water." Here are just 2 examples of the power of the Holy Spirit uniquely working through a priest who sprinkeles Holy Water:

(1) A few years ago, I received a call from friends at a UMC church I used to pastor. Their son in his late teens was secretly addicted to opioids. Then one night he went reluctantly to a horror movie with friends. The combined effect of created fear and opioids left him vulnerable to spirit oppression with paranormal manifestations like a supernatural light shining in his closet and his bedsheets being violently ripped from his bed in the middle of the night.

His desperate parents summoned an evangelical deliverance team to "cleanse" the boy and his room, but their invocation of Jesus' name had no effect. As a last resort, these evangelical parents called the local Catholic bishop, who sent them a mild-mannered Nigerian priest-exorcist. This Nigerian chanted his exorcism prayers, SPRINKLED HOLY WATER, and quickly took charge of the infesting spirit. This Catholic Nigerian succeeded where the evangelical exorcist team failed!

(2) The real possession case that inspired the horror movie, "The Exorcist," involved a young boy who was playing with a Ouija board. The boy displayed the classic paranormal symptoms of possession--superhuman strength, levitation, psychokinetic movement of objects, etc. A Lutheran pastor tried and failed to exorcise the boy and was injured in his efforts. Realizing he was in over his head, he called the local Catholic bishop, who sent Father Bowdern for a long siege with Satan that involved a family move form Georgetown to St. Louis. Father Bowderm and his Catholic team regularly sprinkled Holy Water on the boy, which greatly upset the demon and proved quite effective. Eventually the boy converted to Catholicism so he could receive the Catholic Eucharist. The key moment of victory occurred when the boy was able to affirm Jesus as his Lord and confessed "Dominus."

 

[bbbbbbb]

@bbbbbbb
You do realize that water must be formally blessed in a priestly ritual before it becomes "Holy Water." Here are just 2 examples of the power of the Holy Spirit uniquely working through a priest who sprinkeles Holy Water:

(1) A few years ago, I received a call from friends at a UMC church I used to pastor. Their son in his late teens was secretly addicted to opioids. Then one night he went reluctantly to a horror movie with friends. The combined effect of created fear and opioids left him vulnerable to spirit oppression with paranormal manifestations like a supernatural light shining in his closet and his bedsheets being violently ripped from his bed in the middle of the night.

His desperate parents summoned an evangelical deliverance team to "cleanse" the boy and his room, but their invocation of Jesus' name had no effect. As a last resort, these evangelical parents called the local Catholic bishop, who sent them a mild-mannered Nigerian priest-exorcist. This Nigerian chanted his exorcism prayers, SPRINKLED HOLY WATER, and quickly took charge of the infesting spirit. This Catholic Nigerian succeeded where the evangelical exorcist team failed!

(2) The real possession case that inspired the horror movie, "The Exorcist," involved a young boy who was playing with a Ouija board. The boy displayed the classic paranormal symptoms of possession--superhuman strength, levitation, psychokinetic movement of objects, etc. A Lutheran pastor tried and failed to exorcise the boy and was injured in his efforts. Realizing he was in over his head, he called the local Catholic bishop, who sent Father Bowdern for a long siege with Satan that involved a family move form Georgetown to St. Louis. Father Bowderm and his Catholic team regularly sprinkled Holy Water on the boy, which greatly upset the demon and proved quite effective. Eventually the boy converted to Catholicism so he could receive the Catholic Eucharist. The key moment of victory occurred when the boy was able to affirm Jesus as his Lord and confessed "Dominus."

Thank you for your response. It does not obviate the fact that there is a standard water spigot on the limestone wall inside of the St. Paul, Minnesota, Cathedral which has the words "HOLY WATER" carved into the stone directly above it. Perhaps the archbishop blessed the spigot at the time of the consecration of the cathedral. I don't know. Perhaps there is a special cistern of water behind the wall which feeds the spigot and the cistern is filled and blessed on a regular basis. I don't know. One thing I do know is that there is no source of water for any legal entity in St. Paul, Minnesota other than the public water utility.

To provide a bit more perspective. We all know that wine is used in the Eucharist. It is wine prior to its consecration. It is made from grapes. Grapes grow in soil. The precise origin of the components of the soil can range from volcanic eruptions to decomposed animal bodies and, yes, even human bodies from ancient history. What matters to the believing Catholic communicant is not how the wine was produced or marketed, but what happens to it following its consecration.

 

[The Liturgist]

Thank you for your response. It does not obviate the fact that there is a standard water spigot on the limestone wall inside of the St. Paul, Minnesota, Cathedral which has the words "HOLY WATER" carved into the stone directly above it.

No, rather, what you are seeing is a faucet that is tapped into a vessel which contains holy water. The water is a sacramental and as such must be blessed using a specific liturgical rite, as @Berserk said.

Now, one absolutely can bless water collected from the water supply, but the liturgy for blessing holy water is applied to specific vessels or bodies of water. It would not be canonical to put a sign on a tap connected to the water supply.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No, rather, what you are seeing is a faucet that is tapped into a vessel which contains holy water. The water is a sacramental and as such must be blessed using a specific liturgical rite, as @Berserk said.

Now, one absolutely can bless water collected from the water supply, but the liturgy for blessing holy water is applied to specific vessels or bodies of water. It would not be canonical to put a sign on a tap connected to the water supply.

I don't know the technicalities. I suppose that, technically, the carved words were in the stone and not on the spigot, so the sign was not literally attached to the spigot. However, when the cathedral was constructed it was not at all uncommon for people to take holy water to their homes. I assume that the spigot was used for filling vessels for home use. Whether or not a priest is or was present to bless the water as the vessels were being filled I cannot say.

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't know the technicalities. I suppose that, technically, the carved words were in the stone and not on the spigot, so the sign was not literally attached to the spigot. However, when the cathedral was constructed it was not at all uncommon for people to take holy water to their homes. I assume that the spigot was used for filling vessels for home use. Whether or not a priest is or was present to bless the water as the vessels were being filled I cannot say.

What I am telling you and what @Berserk was also seeking to assure you of is that holy water requires consecration, so a priest or bishop positively had to bless it, just as the Eucharist does not become the body and blood of our Lord prior to the liturgical anaphora.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What I am telling you and what @Berserk was also seeking to assure you of is that holy water requires consecration, so a priest or bishop positively had to bless it, just as the Eucharist does not become the body and blood of our Lord prior to the liturgical anaphora.

I am not disagreeing with either of you in the slightest. I merely stated a basic fact - there is a water spigot on an interior limestone wall of the St. Paul, Minnesota Catholic Cathedral which has carved in the stone above it "HOLY WATER". I have repeatedly stated that i do not know how such water is consecrated. The spigot could have been consecrated as part of the original consecration of the cathedral. The spigot might or might not be attached directly to the St. Paul municipal water system. The origins of the water that comes out of the spigot are unknown. A priest might or might not bless each time the spigot is turned on. I do not know.

 

[Berserk]

(1a) HEALING MARIAN SPRINGS

An important variant of Holy Water is the healing Marian spring. If you want to experience awe, wonder, and a profound sense of the sacred watch this famous old movie ("The Song of Bernadette" [1943]) about Bernadette, the simple young girl whose visions of the Virgin Mary led to her discovery of the hidden spring at Lourdes that over the centuries has triggered pilgrimages by millions and countless healing miracles.

the song of bernadette movie online - - Video Search Results

Jennifer Jones won the Best Actress Oscar for her performance as Bernadette.

THE HEALING SPRING BY THE HOUSE OF THE VIRGIN MARY ON TOP OF A SMALL MOUNTAIN JUST OUTSIDE THE MASSIVE RUINS OF ANCIENT EPHESUS

Dick climbed this little mountain on a "Footsteps of St. Paul Tour" that he (and later I) took about 10 years ago. Dick went on this tour despite the fact that he had torn tendons in his badly arthritic knee.
He limped badly up the beautiful little mountain lined with box-shaped trees and an elegant wall along the pathway. A Turkish lady saw him limp and urged him to bottle water from the adjacent Marian spring that could be tapped from a spigot in the descending wall. A skeptical Dick complied just to be polite, but when he returned to his hotel, he complained about his pain to his wife, Mary Ann. She replied, "Well, why don't you pour the bottled water onto your knee to see if that helps?" Dick replied, "Why? It's just water with no special powers!" His wife retorted, "I agree, but what do you have to lose?" So Dick reluctantly poured the water on his knee. He felt a little better, but attributed this to a placebo effect.

When he returned to the US, he entered a Spokane hospital for orthopedic surgery on his knee. When he came out of the anesthesia, his surgeon stood at the foot of his bed. The surgeon said defensively, "I don't understand it. We took MRIs and did other tests on your torn tendons before your trip, but when we cut you open, your knee was perfectly normal and even the arthritis was gone!" The doctor probably feared a malpractice lawsuit. Dick testified to his miracle in my church and began it in this unforgettable way: "Now I do some things which many of you would disapprove of!"

 

[Berserk]

2. HOLY RELICS

Biblical precedent for healing miracles associated with the bones or clothing of saints can be found in 2 Kings 13:21, which recounts the restoration of a dead man to life through contact with Elisha's bones.
The Shroud of Turin's authenticity has been discussed on other threads. My point for this thread is the frequency of miracles throughout history such as divine healing generated by some sort of contact with the Shroud. For ancient and modern examples, read this article:

Healing Miracles of The Shroud of Turin

What prompted me to take holy relics seriously was a Catholic man's testimony of how his wife's congestive heart failure was cured when he visited a saint's tomb in Italy and asked that saint to pray for his wife. His wife was instantly healed! This impressed me particularly because I have a good friend who suffers from congestive heart failure and have often prayed in vain for his healing. Indeed, in my Pentecostal and Methodist circles I haven't even heard of someone with this life-threatening condition being healed. Why would the bones or artifacts of the dead and prayer to saints trigger such a miracle, when the desperate prayers of Protestants like me go unheard?

 

[The Liturgist]

A Coptic Orthodox monk caused a massive tumor of a relative to become only superficially deep, and the removal, which was projected to destroy a nerve controlling part of her face, to go without any side effects.

 

[bbbbbbb]

A Coptic Orthodox monk caused a massive tumor of a relative to become only superficially deep, and the removal, which was projected to destroy a nerve controlling part of her face, to go without any side effects.

Did the monk actually cause this to happen?

 

[The Liturgist]

Did the monk actually cause this to happen?

Yes.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes.

Then, all praise and glory to the monk.

 

[The Liturgist]

Then, all praise and glory to the monk.

The glory goes to God the Son, who the monk prays to continuously, and having prayed continuously, has made himself an obedient servant to God the Father through the grace of God the Holy Spirit.