Why people reject the reality of Hell

[Lazarus Short]

Re 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Kinda looks like John does not agree with you. Of course, he was writing under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Oh my, we seem to have missed the "forever and ever."

 

[All Becomes New]

I can't speak for others, but my intentions are not to "win" the debate. My aim is to educate. I'll leave the convincing up to God.

All three views of the final judgment are biblical. Take your pick.

Well, he's been giving a lot better reasons for his view than anyone else here AFAIK.

I feel universalists don't want to tangle with him because they know they will not be able to measure up.

 

[Der Alte]

...

Common sense says a loving father shouldn't incinerate his children when they misbehave. You don't need the wisdom of God to figure that out.

Genesis 19:24-25
(24) Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
(25) And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Jude 1:7
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

​

 

[Der Alte]

* * * All three views of the final judgment are biblical. Take your pick.

Wrong!

So...who is really exalting themselves above God? Is it the ECT advocates, who inserted "hell" into the Bible, though the term was never in the Greek of Hebrew? Or, is it the universalists, who deconstructed "hell"?

WRONG! Before and during the time of Jesus there was a significant belief in a place of eternal fiery punishment which they, i.e. the Jews, called both "hades" and "Ge Henna"

As for God not incinerating everyone, take a look at Jeremiah 19:5.

These vss. show God incinerating all the people on earth.

Genesis 19:24-25
(24) Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
(25) And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Jude 1:7
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jeremiah 19:5
(5) They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:​

Here is your out-of-context proof text. God said "to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:" It was not just about burning their children but also offering them to pagan deities. When you omit the last part you are deliberately misrepresenting what God said. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for UR-ites.

 

[wendykvw]

Anyone wishing to prove their case of universalism will have to contend with @Der Alte. His content on this subject is really good. If universalists can't refute what he says, then they shouldn't be convincing anyone.

Surprise surprise. People tend to relate better to the people who share their same paradigm.

 

[All Becomes New]

Surprise surprise. People tend to relate better to the people who share their same paradigm.

It would help your own cause if any of the universalists engaged with his material. I don't see anyone of you doing that though. Why would that be, I wonder?

 

[Saint Steven]

Those who exalt themselves above God are certainly in danger.

Why?
Does God need anger management counseling?

 

[Saint Steven]

I feel universalists don't want to tangle with him because they know they will not be able to measure up.

We tangled with him earlier. We are currently untangled.

 

[Saint Steven]

Well, he's been giving a lot better reasons for his view than anyone else here AFAIK.

You should get a prize for being able to read the posts. (an eyesore)

 

[wendykvw]

It would help your own cause if any of the universalists engaged with his material. I don't see anyone of you doing that though. Why would that be, I wonder?

I have corresponded with him often.

 

[wendykvw]

@Jesse Dornfeld

You may want to participate or read his arguments here, non-universalists don’t even agree with his opinions.

The meaning of αἰώνιος/aionios and αἰών/aion.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Jeremiah 19:5
(5) They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:​

Here is your out-of-context proof text. God said "to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:" It was not just about burning their children but also offering them to pagan deities. When you omit the last part you are deliberately misrepresenting what God said. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for UR-ites.

I think the Scripture I referenced covered the context, and I omitted no part of the verse. I think in your zeal to answer, you deliberately misrepresent what WE say, and btw, using terms like "Wrong!" and "Nonsense!" - well, it just alienates some of your readers. Did no one tell you about attracting flies with sugar, versus vinegar?

 

[All Becomes New]

You should get prize for being able to read the posts. (an eyesore)

You know what this really communicates to me? You've never actually looked at a lexicon before.

 

[Der Alte]

I think the Scripture I referenced covered the context, and I omitted no part of the verse. I think in your zeal to answer, you deliberately misrepresent what WE say, and btw, using terms like "Wrong!" and "Nonsense!" - well, it just alienates some of your readers. Did no one tell you about attracting flies with sugar, versus vinegar?

No the scripture you referenced did not cover the context. Here is how you introduced it. "As for God not incinerating everyone, take a look at Jeremiah 19:5." Do you see anything about sacrificing children to pagan deities there? I don't. UR-ites frequently [mis]use that vs. as a proof text against hell. But it has nothing to do with hell. And by emphasizing the "burning" and ignoring the "sacrificing," as you did, you are trying to make it say what it does not say. Do you understand where I am coming from now?

 

[Der Alte]

...

We tangled with him earlier. We are currently untangled.

He doesn't recall any such tangling!

 

[Lazarus Short]

No the scripture you referenced did not cover the context. Here is how you introduced it. "As for God not incinerating everyone, take a look at Jeremiah 19:5." Do you see anything about sacrificing children to pagan deities there? I don't. UR-ites frequently [mis]use that vs. as a proof text against hell. But it has nothing to do with hell. And by emphasizing the "burning" and ignoring the "sacrificing," as you did, you are trying to make it say what it does not say. Do you understand where I am coming from now?

Yes, but as usual, you miss the point...that being God had never or has never ever even thought of burning people, as sacrifices to pagan "gods" or in "hell." Do you understand where I am coming from?

 

[Lazarus Short]

He doesn't recall any such tangling!

Maybe it was spooky action at a distance.

 

[Saint Steven]

You know what this really communicates to me? You've never actually looked at a lexicon before.

That was a cheap shot.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Why?
Does God need anger management counseling?

Actually, the disposition of Lucifer should serve as ample evidence of what is expected of those who practice such unwise behaviors.
Perhaps a better understanding of God's righteousness and the degree to which sin offends that righteousness would give some insight regarding God's wrath. God is not vengeful toward His creation only the sin which has corrupted it. Those who will not become clean through the blood of Christ will be consumed in the lake of fire.

 

[Saint Steven]

Actually, the disposition of Lucifer should serve as ample evidence of what is expected of those who practice such unwise behaviors.
Perhaps a better understanding of God's righteousness and the degree to which sin offends that righteousness would give some insight regarding God's wrath. God is not vengeful toward His creation only the sin which has corrupted it. Those who will not become clean through the blood of Christ will be consumed in the lake of fire.

Did Jesus die to save us from God?