Texas woman with ectopic pregnancy denied abortion

[Hvizsgyak]

No, the agenda is to make sure the exceptions clearly exist in the law and are understood to exist by the public and doctors, so that the doctors can act when necessary to preserve the life of the woman. The Texas law clearly wasn't good enough in this case, since the doctors weren't willing to risk it.

Then I would say, before any procedure is done to help the mother, it is definitely confirmed (by the hospital where the procedure would be done) that the mother truly has an ectopic pregnancy. Or we will end up with women having their doctors list them as having an ectopic pregancy when they really don't. Just so they can have an abortion. Sounds over cautious but people sometimes go to desperate measures to get what they want.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

No problem, conservative legal minds are already working on it.

But remember, conservative minds can plan it as much as they want but it still needs to be passed into a law and most nonsensical bills never make it to be voted on.

 

[comana]

Then I would say, before any procedure is done to help the mother, it is definitely confirmed (by the hospital where the procedure would be done) that the mother truly has an ectopic pregnancy. Or we will end up with women having their doctors list them as having an ectopic pregancy when they really don't. Just so they can have an abortion. Sounds over cautious but people sometimes go to desperate measures to get what they want.

The medical record will show an ectopic pregnancy. A procedure to remove an ectopic pregnancy vs a uterine pregnancy are different and someone will notice.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Hmm. Your screed seems awfully female focused. What about the men involved? Where is your derision for them?

500 hours of community service at a hospital caring for the sick. If they mess that up another 500 hours of community service in a male prison. Hopefully they'll get the message to treat women more respectfully. I have no tolerance for men like that who get women pregnant just to satisfy their own sex urges. I could throw out some other punishments but I'll hold off for now.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

500 hours of community service at a hospital caring for the sick. If they mess that up another 500 hours of community service in a male prison. Hopefully they'll get the message to treat women more respectfully. I have no tolerance for men like that who get women pregnant just to satisfy their own sex urges. I could throw out some other punishments but I'll hold off for now.

0 to Draconian in 3.2 seconds.

 

[Belk]

Then I would say, before any procedure is done to help the mother, it is definitely confirmed (by the hospital where the procedure would be done) that the mother truly has an ectopic pregnancy. Or we will end up with women having their doctors list them as having an ectopic pregancy when they really don't. Just so they can have an abortion. Sounds over cautious but people sometimes go to desperate measures to get what they want.

Perhaps a ministry of dedicated professional watchmen to ensure all rules are being followed to the T and punish wrong doers? After all, people need to be controlled for their own good.

 

[Desk trauma]

Relax, that will never happen.

I admire your optimism but it’s misplaced.

 

[NxNW]

Biblically and Biologically i can make a case of conception being implantation rather than fertilization.

That argument can be easily defeated, because for up to 13 days after fertilization, it can split and become identical twins (or triplets, etc). But during those 13 days, you simply don't know if there will be a split. One aspect of the definition of "human being" is the fact that they are distinct and quantifiable. "If you can't count 'em, they ain't human." During those first 13 days, you have something that is indeterminate. It might be one future human, it might be two, or three. Mostly likely it will be zero, since 70% of all fertilized eggs miscarry. Live birth is the exception, not the rule. But since you can't quantify the the number of unborn(s) during that period, then a strong argument can be made that you can't call it/them human beings at all.

Life does not begin at implantation, because you can't quantify the life or lives at that moment.

But no such argument can make the claim that they're not a human life until after they're born so it's okay to terminate a pregnancy.

I'm not making that argument, and almost nobody else is either.

 

[Desk trauma]

But remember, conservative minds can plan it as much as they want but it still needs to be passed into a law and most nonsensical bills never make it to be voted on.

Just like a law classing IUDs as homicide will never see the light of day much less a vote, oh, what was that Louisiana?

 

[NxNW]

Because the fetus isn't in the uterus, it's in the fallopian tube.

If you're going to attempt to discuss these matters, you should really learn basic biology and understand that it's not a fetus.

 

[NxNW]

(in an ectopic pregnancy the fetus dies anyway)

In an ectopic pregnancy, there is no fetus.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

The medical record will show an ectopic pregnancy. A procedure to remove an ectopic pregnancy vs a uterine pregnancy are different and someone will notice.

Alright, if that's the case then that satisfies my inquires.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

0 to Draconian in 3.2 seconds.

Let's hear your suggestions; maybe I'll find some I like.

 

[Yttrium]

One aspect of the definition of "human being" is the fact that they are distinct and quantifiable.

Source required. Not that it really makes a difference, because the way you apply it doesn't make much sense anyway.

 

[NxNW]

Stop trying to minimize the child in the womb; it's as human and alive as we are.

Except it doesn't have the capacity for thought or sensory input, and has never taken a breath, and it's not counted in the census or as a dependent for tax purposes.

 

[cow451]

Perhaps a ministry of dedicated professional watchmen to ensure all rules are being followed to the T and punish wrong doers? After all, people need to be controlled for their own good.

Every OB office and every delivery room can have a watchperson (no need to be sexist) to make certain each Handmaid is treated well .... under his eye.

 

[NxNW]

No problem, conservative legal minds are already working on it.

After all, they're doing such a great job rationalizing January 6.

 

[ozso]

Then I have misunderstood you entirely, for which I apologize, and hope you provide clarification.

I'm addressing the situation as it currently stands. And you added a bunch of rotten conclusions to it. At this point I don't have anything more I want to say to you.

 

[NxNW]

Source required. Not that it really makes a difference, because the way you apply it doesn't make much sense anyway.

If you have kids, you can count them. If you take a census, you can count them. If you give birth, you can count the number of births. If there is a death, you can count the number of deaths, and each one has a death certificate. If you can think of an exception then let us know. Mass events like 9/11 may not have the exact number determined due to a lack of data, but each death was distinct. But at the moment of fertilization you can look as close as you want, and have no idea if it will result in one, two, three, or four births. Most likely it will be zero, as I mentioned.

If it later splits, was it one life or two before the split? If one, you're admitting that life can begin much later. If two, you're claiming that there are two human beings occupying a single cell at fertilization, which is absurd.

 

[NxNW]

Then I would say, before any procedure is done to help the mother, it is definitely confirmed (by the hospital where the procedure would be done) that the mother truly has an ectopic pregnancy. Or we will end up with women having their doctors list them as having an ectopic pregancy when they really don't. Just so they can have an abortion. Sounds over cautious but people sometimes go to desperate measures to get what they want.

You seem to be under the impression that doctors falsify records willy-nilly.