New Interpretation of the bible

[EarlDumarest]

yes
can you name few example?

ALL of them!
The translator deems fir to render the Heb/Grk words as HE understands it!
Take the word Yehovah/Jehovah, now, finally, proven to be true- why is it replaced with "Lord"?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

There is actually far more variety of beliefs inside one church building than there are differences between denominations.

Comparing denominations, you find small differences. Comparing the person sitting on your left with the one on your right, one is a former prostitute (or active one) and the other is a Muslim married to a Christian who doesn't attend church.

So the variety of beliefs is huge inside one church. The differences between denominations is small.

I think those pew differences are based on one's level of maturity in Christ and understanding of History. I often laugh in faces when I hear poor history in person.
You will find those with poor historical views have not even read the 38 volumes of the Church Fathers' published by Eerdamans, nor have they read Phillip Schaff's volumetric set on Church History.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

We aren’t talking about individual here we are talking about denomination, there are more than just a few minor differences, where in scripture does it state there are different branches in relation to scripture?

The phrase "the church at" would indicate branches which because of cultural differences would have had minor differences in their understanding of Scripture. For example, Corinth had to deal with Temple Prostitutes in some mystery religions there. Thus Paul had to deal with Sexual Sins and Self indulgence.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Well, it was important to me. I spent decades of my life as a Protestant, largely oblivious to Orthodoxy. I had no idea that it was, in fact, the one true church as I now believe it to be. In 52 years as a Christian, I have never encountered a Protestant who had any understanding of Orthodoxy much beyond "they're basically just Catholics, right?" Uh, not exactly.

We only know the fate of a couple of the Apostles, but tradition hardly has them all abandoning the faith. At Jesus' arrest, yes, but not after the Resurrection. I don't see that whatever point you're making goes anywhere. There is no question that the oral eyewitness tradition is the source of the Gospels and that the Apostles and close disciples were the principal eyewitnesses. The Apostolic and Early Church Fathers were obviously the next closest to those who had actually known Jesus or known those who had known Jesus.

We can agree to disagree, but I believe there are far more and more significant differences within Protestantism than you're suggesting, as well as some serious differences between Orthodoxy and much Protestantism.

Don't forget friend that some of the Early Church Fathers were taught by the Apostles.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

You made the claim that following the Apostles are important for the church to know God. I just wondered where your idea is from.

Psalm 19:1
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

Romans 1:19-20
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Psalm 115:16
The heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth he has given to the children of man.

Ephesians 4
English Standard Version
Unity in the Body of Christ
4 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift. 8 Therefore it says,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”[a]

9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[c] and teachers,[d] 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[e] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

Let us look at that using common sense. The Apostles were taught by Christ. No one had a complete NT back then. Who else would people learn the truth from?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

After being with Jesus three years they abandoned Him? How can you justify that?
I'd stick with my Sunday School teacher after three years of training.
And that would be one day a week.
So these are the people I should follow rather than Jesus? I don't get it.

Let's see the only way we know what Jesus did and taught was because four Apostles wrote the Gospels. Clearly if you are alive now in 2022 than you were not around back then.

 

[Irkle Berserkle]

"The Orthodox make the valid point that the supposed sola scriptura of Protestantism has resulted in thousands, if not tens of thousands, of competing understandings of Scripture. "

Please list them friend.

Depending on how you do the counting, there are upwards of 200 actual Protestant denominations and more than 35,000 independent churches. You really don't want me to list them. Across the spectrum of Protestantism, there are deep and divisive theological differences. Anyone who doubts this needs to get out more.

My comment is not a ringing endorsement of the Orthodox Church, but they do have an unbroken lineage from Apostolic times and a consistent theology and tradition. The fragmentation that now characterizes Christianity is almost entirely the product of the Great Schism between the Catholics and Orthodox and the Protestant Reformation. Sola scriptura has become something very different from what Luther was talking about.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Jw, Mormonism start with Just those for now what branch from scripture would I get from them ?

Those are recognized as cults by all true Christians Protestant, Orthodox and Catholic friends.

Joseph Smith was the prophet or source of extra revelation for LDS.
Rutherford, Russel were the sources of false teaching for JWs.
The Watchtower is the false prophet of the JWs.

With those examples, it is impossible to take your claims seriously friend.

Why not throw in all the cults and world religions too.

Non of them are Protestantism.

 

[messianist]

I think those pew differences are based on one's level of maturity in Christ and understanding of History. I often laugh in faces when I hear poor history in person.
You will find those with poor historical views have not even read the 38 volumes of the Church Fathers' published by Eerdamans, nor have they read Phillip Schaff's volumetric set on Church History.

You laugh because you don’t understand

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I can't think of a single Mormon involved in a morality scandal.
So I'd have to say that all Mormons have all turned out pretty close to my beliefs.
But I can come up with a long list of non-Mormon scandals.

I'm going to research Mormon scandals now.

OK...I did find sexual abuse issues. Certainly not unique ones though.

friend I am a former Sexton a LDS fundamentalist sect. Google mormon leadership utah newspapers "sexual abuse" you get over About 691,000 results (0.49 seconds)

Google Joseph Smith "sexual abuse" About 13,400,000 results (0.50 seconds) and you can find out about how he did that to minors

Google Brigham Young "sexual abuse" About 444,000 results (0.47 seconds)

Google "Prophet Brigham Young" "sexual abuse" About 161,000 results (0.46 seconds)

Here is just a few of the stories:
Newly released records show it was ‘standard practice’ for BYU police to help with Honor Code surveillance
This week in Mormon Land: the lives of black Latter-day Saints past and present — and whose idea was the priesthood and temple ban in the first place?
Mormon Truth News!!: Former Mormon Bishop Timothy Mccleve, Is Accused Of Sexually Abusing 3 Young Girls, As They Trusted Their Former Bishop. Are There Even More Victims?
Issue 92 - Salt Lake City Messenger
"

1. That the LDS church claims the high moral ground on what is proper marriage, with their sordid history of polygamy, polyandry, young brides, and sexual abuse
   "
2. Significant Absurdities — The Edge

Issue 88 - Salt Lake City Messenger
Issue 91 - Salt Lake City Messenger
Case Reports
***
https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documen...JESUS_CHRIST_OF_LATTER-DAY_SAINTS-2017-06.pdf
****
A History of Sexual Abuse in the Mormon Church - Top Class Actions
Mormon leader’s remark on sexual misconduct draws criticism

 

[messianist]

The exaggerated number of denominations is based on a poor source that says there are over a hundred catholic church denominations. That source considers the catholic church in different nations to be a denomination of the Catholic Church. Even Catholic Apologetists exposed that claim.

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Blind guide

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Early editions of BOM, 2 Nephi 30:6, which in early editions of the Book of Mormon, read: "[T]heir scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people."

That is hate language and pure racism.

Scripture makes it plan if you hate people you are not of God.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Blind guide

Try being honest rather than play stupid games friend.

 

[miamited]

Hi @Valletta

While we all may gain a deeper understanding of the Word of God, the Word of God does not change. Individual Catholics are free to interpret Biblical passages within the teachings of the Catholic Church as passed down from Jesus through the Apostles.
The number of times the Catholic Church has formally stated specific interpretations on Biblical text within the almost 2000 years of Church history is in the single digits. Many times Church pronouncements are due to certain heresies which may become popular. Jesus gave no authority to a book, on earth He gave the keys of the kingdom (authority) to the first pope. The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. It is Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition which have equal weight -- the teachings of Jesus as passed down through the Apostles whether written or oral. Giving authority to a book is a manmade tradition, the Bible itself says nothing about such authority. T

That's about the way that I see most of those associated with the organization support the understanding. Just out of curiosity, if you're interested, what Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition allows that only some marriage performed under the auspices of a certain group is a valid marriage and that the breaking up of the wrongfully enjoined marriage is not one of those that God hates? Would it be true, or has God changed, that marriages performed prior to the rise of the Catholic Sacred Tradition were all wrongfully enjoined? After all, there was no 'church' prior to Jesus' coming. He told Paul that it was upon the principles of Paul's confession of 'who' he was, that Jesus was going to build his church upon the earth.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Facts and Stats on "33,000 Denominations"
by P
Now for a few facts and stats from the actual source: World Christian Encyclopedia by Barrett, Kurian, Johnson (Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001).

The source does refer to 33000+ total "Christian" denominations, but it defines the word "denomination" as an organized Christian group within a specific country:

'Denominations. A denomination is defined in this Encyclopedia as an organized aggregate of worship centers or congregations of similar ecclesiastical tradition within a specific country; i.e. as an organized Christian church or tradition or religious group or community of believers, within a specific country, whose component congregations and members are called by the same denominational name in different areas, regarding themselves as one autonomous Christian church distinct from other denominations, churches and traditions. As defined here, world Christianity consists of 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural blocs, divided into 300 major ecclesiastical traditions, composed of over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries, these denominations themselves being composed of over 3,400,000 worship centers, churches or congregations.' (Barrett et al, volume 1, page 16, Table 1-5, emphasis added)

So we have, according to Barrett's Encyclopedia:

a denomination is defined as existing within a specific country
there are 33,000+ total of these "Christian denominations" in 238 total countries
These 33,000 are subdivided into "6 major ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs", and ordering them by denomination size we have (I am rounding up or down slightly for convenience, using year 2000 figures) :

Independents (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
"Marginals" (about 1600)
Orthodox (781)
Roman Catholics (242)
Anglicans (168)
So the 33,000 number is from the total of these 6 mega-blocs:

22000 + 9000 + 1600 + 781 + 242 + 168 = 33,000+
The Facts and Stats on 33000 Denominations: World Christian Encyclopedia (2001, 2nd edition)

That stupid source says there are 242 Catholic denominations. Any honest person will recognize that there is only one Catholic Church "denomination" loosely speaking.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Challenge for our friend with misinformation. Make a list of your beliefs. Go to NewAdvent.org and try to find all those beliefs in the Early Church Fathers. Be sure to give links to only primary sources where you get the quote otherwise we all will know it is false. When you give links to primary sources, we will check for context and post the full text for context because most often church sources like LDS Church, Islam Muslim sites, United Pentecostals, the Watchtower of JW's and others will take it out of context.

My wife is about to kick me off for work.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

ALL of them!
The translator deems fir to render the Heb/Grk words as HE understands it!
Take the word Yehovah/Jehovah, now, finally, proven to be true- why is it replaced with "Lord"?

Because of the Jewish tradition of NOT saying God's name. The vowel points were not put in and the first time Jehovah shows up is somewhere in the late Middle ages, from the 13th-16th centuries. So even the 1611 KJV only uses Jehovah a handful of times.

 

[SkyWriting]

friend I am a former Sexton a LDS fundamentalist sect. Google mormon leadership utah newspapers "sexual abuse" you get over About 691,000 results (0.49 seconds)

Google Joseph Smith "sexual abuse" About 13,400,000 results (0.50 seconds) and you can find out about how he did that to minors

Google Brigham Young "sexual abuse" About 444,000 results (0.47 seconds)

Google "Prophet Brigham Young" "sexual abuse" About 161,000 results (0.46 seconds)

Here is just a few of the stories:
Newly released records show it was ‘standard practice’ for BYU police to help with Honor Code surveillance
This week in Mormon Land: the lives of black Latter-day Saints past and present — and whose idea was the priesthood and temple ban in the first place?
Mormon Truth News!!: Former Mormon Bishop Timothy Mccleve, Is Accused Of Sexually Abusing 3 Young Girls, As They Trusted Their Former Bishop. Are There Even More Victims?
Issue 92 - Salt Lake City Messenger
"

1. That the LDS church claims the high moral ground on what is proper marriage, with their sordid history of polygamy, polyandry, young brides, and sexual abuse
   "
2. Significant Absurdities — The Edge

Issue 88 - Salt Lake City Messenger
Issue 91 - Salt Lake City Messenger
Case Reports
***
https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documen...JESUS_CHRIST_OF_LATTER-DAY_SAINTS-2017-06.pdf
****
A History of Sexual Abuse in the Mormon Church - Top Class Actions
Mormon leader’s remark on sexual misconduct draws criticism

I'd never say any of that is good. But I don't expect any less from any church leadership. It seems to be part of the leadership training program for any church group.

 

[SkyWriting]

Let's see the only way we know what Jesus did and taught was because four Apostles wrote the Gospels. Clearly if you are alive now in 2022 than you were not around back then.

I was referring to the lives of the 12 disciples and how they responded to living with God for 3 years.

 

[SkyWriting]

Let us look at that using common sense. The Apostles were taught by Christ. No one had a complete NT back then. Who else would people learn the truth from?

Romans 1:19-20
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.