Are there many on this forum who have received the Holy Spirit; with the bible evidence of tongues ?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Mark 16:17–18 is not a litmus test given to judge other believers by.

Certainly those signs can and do follow believers, but this does not mean all believers will do this all the time.
The verses here are not just about tongues while ignoring the rest, the entire verse indeed the entire chapter needs to be read as each part is of equal importance.
Mark 16:17-18 covers 5 signs.
cast out demons
speak with new tongues
pick up serpents
they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them
they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

That is followed with
“And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed,” (Mark 16:20)
The point to having the signs were and is to confirm the gospel as you preach, not to test each individual believer or as a test of your own faith. It isn't a matter of "Today I spoke in tongues so I am a true believer" That is not what they are for.

Even believers in the early church did not exhibit each and every sign either.
When the Bible says that the believers brought the sick to the apostles to receive healing did not mean the believers who did this were not true believers because they could not lay hands on the sick and have them recover. They were true believers but God had simply not gifted them with healing even though it is one of the signs mentioned there.

God gives as he wills and as needed for the common good.
1 Cor. 12:7-11,28-31, “But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills…28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

If your gift is tongues then praise God for it and use it for the common good, but do not uphold it over others as a test of their faith.

One thing to consider is the debate over whether the verses that include "these signs shall follow those who believe" were actually written by Mark, or whether they were added by some unknown person later on. There are many manuscripts that contain the ending, and Jerome's Vulgate has it, and this formed the basis of the KJV. But the earliest manuscript (Alexandria 4th Century AD) doesn't have it. But the Latin and Byzantium (Eastern) manuscripts do have it, but those manuscripts were later copies. But there are manuscripts come from scattered areas around the Mediterranean that don't have it. So the Jury is still out concerning the authenticity of the Mark ending.
I am giving this bit of information (apologies for errors and omissions) to show that it is risky to form a stable doctrine that tongues is the sign of a true believer on a passage of Mark that is a matter of debate. For me, I wouldn't use it to subscribe to a doctrine that a person has to have the gift of tongues to be a true believer.

 

[topher694]

It is on topic and establishes something that must be considered, that any claim to speak in tongues should abide by the biblical standard.

How exciting and new. Someone who doesn't speak in tongues correcting those that do. It's too bad that doesn't happen more often here.

 

[tturt]

There's more than 6500 languages and some of them are unusual such as click sounds. But God isn't limited to any of those.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There's more than 6500 languages and some of them are unusual such as click sounds. But God isn't limited to those.

On another forum I asked someone who doesn't believe in tongues to show me just one clear Scripture that either Jesus or Paul said in certain terms that the gifts of the Spirit were designed to be temporary. I said not to trot out the 1 Corinthians 13 part-verse which Paul and his readers obviously knew that he was speaking of when we gain perfection after the general resurrection when Jesus comes again.

The fellow trotted out stuff from one or two of the church fathers, and some guy who reckoned he could prove cessationism through the church fathers. I said if the guy has a cessationist theology, don't bother, because he is biased.

I also observed that Holy Scripture takes precedence over all other writing, and if the Scripture doesn't say it, then it ain't true no matter of how many of the church fathers say it.

He hasn't answered me yet. I don't think he can, because you and I know that there ain't no Scriptures anywhere in the New Testament that say, or even imply that the Spiritual gifts were designed to be limited to the Apostolic Age. There is much stronger evidence in Scripture that the Spiritual gifts are for the church from Pentecostal right through to the Second Coming of Christ. They are for the Church in all ages.

The other point I want to make, and I can make it to you because then I can't be accused of attacking anyone. The command of Jesus is that we love one another, and that the person who does not love does not know God because God is love. So, my question is, if there is a thread where people are sharing their experiences concerning the Holy Spirit and His gifts, and someone comes on the thread to say it is all nonsense and falsehood, implying that those who manifest certain gifts of the Spirit are false, even false believers, then are they being loving to the brethren, and are they actually doing what Jesus commanded them to do? And if they are not loving to those they may not agree with, can they prove that they know God seeing that God is love?

If we are to believe all of God's Word and not just parts of it, we need to test what we say and do, like on a thread like this, according to the Biblical standard, which unconditional love for all those who have Jesus as their Saviour.

Just a few thoughts for those who have ears to hear...

 

[Jamdoc]

How exciting and new. Someone who doesn't speak in tongues correcting those that do. It's too bad that doesn't happen more often here.

I am saying that most of what modern people consider "speaking in tongues" is not speaking in tongues, in the way the bible means it, which is based in Acts 2, which is, they spoke with real human languages that they had not been taught (in order to spread the gospel to foreigners)

So in the sense of me correcting people who "speak in tongues" my position is... you probably aren't. Not by biblical standard.

Now.. if I hear that someone starts speaking in Pashto randomly having never studied the language or been to Afghanistan or even known anyone who comes from Afghanistan and some Afghanistani immigrant says "hey, they're speaking my language and proclaiming the gospel in my native language!" Okay. Then that person is speaking in tongues.

Because just walk through 1 Corinthians 12-14.
What's the point of all of it?
Chapter 12 explains that different people have different spiritual gifts but not everyone has those gifts. That's clear.
Chapter 13 explains that the gifts aren't even the important part, the important part is love and charity.
Chapter 14 says sure, desire spiritual gifts but greater than spiritual gifts is to preach the word of God (what is meant by Prophesy, it's not always about telling the future but it's about preaching the Word of God)

and this is important why?

Verse 2 and on gets into the meat

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

In other words, if you're speaking languages that nobody else knows, what's the point? You're not edifying anyone because they can't understand it.

True speaking in tongues, it serves a purpose, because now you, despite not being trained in a language, can share the gospel with people in a part of the world where they speak that language.

But this.. gibberish that they do in charismatic circles? That's not preaching to anyone, that's not edifying anyone, all it's doing is actually self exaltation, to proclaim that you have a gift from God and are showing it off. Self edification as Paul puts it.
That's vanity.

The rest of the chapter carries on in the same message.

and this is one of the 2 places in the bible where that spiritual gift is even addressed.. and it's to basically teach that its unimportant unless it can be understood and used to edify or spread the gospel (IE real languages)

 

[Jamdoc]

So, I actually glossed over something, and I think it's super important and relevant to this thread..
since the idea behind the thread is.. considering speaking in tongues as "proof" of the indwelling of the holy spirit

But Paul, and I will also show John as well, show you what the real proof of the indwelling of the holy spirit is.

1 Corinthians 12:3

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

and 1 John 4:2 for your second witness

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

So there you have it.
If your spirit tells you that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh and is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.. that spirit comes from God. The Holy Spirit.

and let me remind you of what the purpose of the Holy Spirit is according to our Lord and Savior

John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

So, in 2 verses, the Holy Spirit is our comforter, to help us deal with the struggles of our walk. A teacher of biblical truth, and primarily speaks to us by referencing us to the bible, it reminds us of where to go in the bible when we need it. Verses just pop into your head. That spirit you can know, is the Holy Spirit, because it does what Jesus said it'd do, refer you back to the Word of God, and... as Paul and John also taught, that spirit testifies of Jesus.

Even in my worst backslides and moments of weakness, the one thing I knew I could trust, even if nothing else, even if I had doubts in what the bible said here and there.. the one rock solid thing I could always know and trust in, was Jesus. That's the Holy Spirit testifying of Jesus.

So as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:5

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

would it be great to be capable of fluently speaking multiple languages you've never studied? Sure, if you're using it to evangelize.
But what's more important is that you speak the Word of God, and that is.. the bible, I'm not meaning "speaking in a 'heavenly' language that only God understands"
That's not the word of God, the Bible is.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

would be interested to know the doctrines ;as most here seem to be just religious !?

Nope. I can't say that I have. And, in addition to this, I can't say that I think that a lot of people who claim they HAVE spoken in tongues have really done so.

So, there you go!

 

[topher694]

I am saying that most of what modern people consider "speaking in tongues" is not speaking in tongues, in the way the bible means it, which is based in Acts 2, which is, they spoke with real human languages that they had not been taught (in order to spread the gospel to foreigners)

So in the sense of me correcting people who "speak in tongues" my position is... you probably aren't. Not by biblical standard.

Now.. if I hear that someone starts speaking in Pashto randomly having never studied the language or been to Afghanistan or even known anyone who comes from Afghanistan and some Afghanistani immigrant says "hey, they're speaking my language and proclaiming the gospel in my native language!" Okay. Then that person is speaking in tongues.

Because just walk through 1 Corinthians 12-14.
What's the point of all of it?
Chapter 12 explains that different people have different spiritual gifts but not everyone has those gifts. That's clear.
Chapter 13 explains that the gifts aren't even the important part, the important part is love and charity.
Chapter 14 says sure, desire spiritual gifts but greater than spiritual gifts is to preach the word of God (what is meant by Prophesy, it's not always about telling the future but it's about preaching the Word of God)

and this is important why?

Verse 2 and on gets into the meat


In other words, if you're speaking languages that nobody else knows, what's the point? You're not edifying anyone because they can't understand it.

True speaking in tongues, it serves a purpose, because now you, despite not being trained in a language, can share the gospel with people in a part of the world where they speak that language.

But this.. gibberish that they do in charismatic circles? That's not preaching to anyone, that's not edifying anyone, all it's doing is actually self exaltation, to proclaim that you have a gift from God and are showing it off. Self edification as Paul puts it.
That's vanity.

The rest of the chapter carries on in the same message.

and this is one of the 2 places in the bible where that spiritual gift is even addressed.. and it's to basically teach that its unimportant unless it can be understood and used to edify or spread the gospel (IE real languages)

You're trying to teach me about tongues? How cute! There's nothing you've said here that I have refuted 100 times before. In the end it comes down to what I said previously: This is nothing more than someone who doesn't do it who thinks they know more than people who do. And that, is nothing more than fruitless foolishness.

 

[tturt]

With the groups that received tongues in Scripture, it states "all" that were there received
(Acts 4:31; 10:44-46; 19:2-6). It doesn't say what language they heard.

There is an exception on the day of Pentecost - not in the Upper,Room -where there were mockers of tongues (Acts 2) all did not receive.

Also, "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude v 20 Put another way "But you, my delightfully loved friends, constantly and progressively build yourselves up on the foundation of your most holy faith by praying every moment in the Spirit." Jude v20 "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:" Paul said I Cor 14:1

 

[friend of]

If your gift is tongues then praise God for it and use it for the common good, but do not uphold it over others as a test of their faith.

Well said

 

[AbbaLove]

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[AbbaLove]

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[topher694]

​

It's generally agreed within Christianity that they were witnessing in other known languages (not known to them to the other dispersed Jews versed in other languages having travelled some distance from other countries.

It was commanded tradition that all male Jews were to be in Jerusalem to observe three of the seven Feasts/Festivals Of The LORD ... Passover/Unleavened Bread, Shavuot (Pentecost) and Sukkot (Tabernacles).

Acts 2:5-8
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?
8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?​

These 120 Followers of the WAY also included the mother of Jesus and possibly a few other women (called out chosen ones).

NOTE: Please don't look down on my Christian faith icon "Messianic". Jonathan Weiss (Rebecca Lamb's husband) refers to himself as a "Messianic" Christian Believer. His parents Myles and Katharine Weiss, previously hosted “Zola Levitt Ministries” that has continued to be broadcast on Daystar Televison with new hosts. One reason i refer to myself as "Messianic" is because of the testimony of Myles and Katharine Weiss.

If tongues is a natural language then how can people HEAR it in multiple languages? There are no natural languages that can do that.

 

[rturner76]

I have seen opinions across the whole spectrum form one person saying "You MUST speak in tounges to others who say that is i the past and we don't get those gifts anymore. I'm somewhere in the middle.

I do believe that some are moved to speak in tounges and it truly is involuntary and a special gift but I was taught that there should be an interpreter that can translate the message. I believe that it's about a small percentage of people speak that way. I think most are getting a feeling that can only be expressed by letting out whatever sound you feel. I think some do it because they think they are supposed to.

It's never happened to me but I admit, I could be more closed off to that kind of experience. Like when a church gets really loud and people are gasping and shouting, I get nervous and want to get out of there and that's when something like tongues happens. But I have a lot of anxiety so I get in flight mode when I'm not sure what's going on in a public place. It's like I stop seeing a congregation and I see mass hysteria and the fear kick in.

 

[Blade]

Seems what was common and always yes always happened.. we so easily believe John 3:16 yet Luke 11:13 we don't. I see some get stuck on tongues I understand based on the past and things said. For me bible study they every now and then would ask if I wanted the holy spirit. I was 15 I think at the time. One night I just said yes. Now yes to what? HAHA No clue. So they had a chair pulled up and I sat in it. He then reads some verses about the holy spirit. Asks me again if I wanted it. I said yes. He prays and not long at all then stops and says "thats it you got it". See in that bible study they believed the word of God. It says if you ask the Father will give it. I asked they prayed and nothing happened other then him saying you got it. Well is that not what the word of God says?

So I got up went to sit down and BAM! tongues just came out. Had a best friend whos sister very young got baptized at a Catholic Church comes running in that day telling her mom how her friend comes out of the water speaking in tongues. Did not Christ tell us about those who believe? Cast out demons will speak with new tongues. So pray ask based on luke 11:13 then praise Him for what He gave you.. not what you see hear or feel. He can not lie..

There use to be SO many more yet this site has really changed and most of them are gone now. Even I hang out somewhere else most the time praise GOD..its nice to come and read the prayers and pray for them

 

[friend of]

To me, looking for evidence of speaking in tongues to confirm the gift of the Holy Spirit reminds me of Matthew 16:4.

Can't we just take God at His word when He says that those who believe on Christ have the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

 

[AbbaLove]

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[topher694]

​

The only way people could hear it in multiple languages is if they are versed in more than one known human language. This certainly may have been possible during Shavuot (Pentecost) with dispersed Jews travelling from distant lands to observe Shavuot (Pentecost) and somewhat familiar with another human dialect / language.

These 120 chosen Jews (called out chosen ones) were primarily Israeli Jews from Galilee testifying the Good News in other spoken languages that they were not fluent. Likely didn't even know what they were saying, but it definitely had an impact on these Jews from other lands. These "chosen called out ones" were directed by the Holy Spirit to testify of the "Good News" to those various groups of other ethnic speaking Jews that had travelled from other lands to observe Shavuot.

The Septuagint usually uses the Koine Greek term ekklesia, ἐκκλησία, also meaning "summoned group" with the very first group being the 120 Followers of the WAY that were "called out" to share the Good News. It must have seemed perplexing to those dispersed Jews having travelled from far-off lands, but the LORD was planting seeds to those returning Jews to hopefully talk about and share this Good News with others.

Are you a "doubting Thomas" doubting that this supernatural Gift is no longer active among today's "chosen called out ones" ?

Wow are you far off. As I've said before not only do I operate in the Gifts including tongues I've trained hundreds of others to do the same.

My point is the tongues spoken in Acts 2 was a supernatural language not a natural language. Let's modernize it a little

Peter begins to speak in tongues

German man hears german
French man hears french
Spanish man hears spanish
Even better:
British man hears english in his dialect
American man hears english in his dialect
Australian man hears english in his dialect

That is what Acts 2 describes.

Now, if tongues is only speaking in a natural language that the speaker has no knowledge of, then which natural language was Peter speaking that all these men could understand him?

 

[Jamdoc]

The miracle was that all these guys from this backwater that was Galilee were suddenly speaking language that Medes and Parthians and Cretes and Romans and Egyptians and Arabians were understanding their native languages among the speakers, and it's not that each man was speaking and being understood by the listeners in a different language. That'd be a gift of ears rather than a gift of tongues, for one man to speak one thing and be heard as saying different things by different listeners. But among the group of 120, different ones were speaking different foreign languages.

Paul also makes another important truth in 1 Corinthians 14

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

The Holy Spirit is not seizing control of them and forcing them to do something like speak in tongues or thrash around on the floor. The prophets were still in control of their mind and body, they were just urged to say something by the Holy Spirit. It is cooperative, not coercive.

Now I think in most cases these experiences are just people wanting to believe they got a spiritual gift so badly that they'll go with the flow, get caught up in the moment and start babbling in gibberish in order to belong.

But in some cases when these people tell you they blacked out during the experience?
That's not the Holy Spirit.
That's something else, something dark.

The Holy Spirit indwells.
Demons possess.

So I'd be careful about desiring a gift of tongues that badly.

 

[AbbaLove]

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