Near death experiences—Can we learn anything from them?

[Albion]

No one who has had an NDE has truly died, which is why it is an NDE.

Correct.

It's basically just a vision which often changes the course of someone's life for the better.

No, it's not just a vision. If it were, there would be no category called "NDE."
An NDE occurs when the person, to all intents and purposes, is dead, although they come back later. That's not unheard of. And while they are 'dead' they experience something that, from all we know, they could not have known while they were alive and which we can verify.

Seeing heaven or hell does not prove anything about an NDE, but relaying events seen while dead that could not be known by that person but which we know to have been true does.

What makes an NDE special is that is appears to prove life after death. No vision does that.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Correct.



No, it's not just a vision. If it were, there would be no category called "NDE."
An NDE occurs when the person, to all intents and purposes, is dead, although they come back later. That's not unheard of. And while they are 'dead' they experience something that, from all we know, they could not have known while they were alive and which we can verify.

Seeing heaven or hell does not prove anything about an NDE, but relaying events seen while dead that could not be known by that person but which we know to have been true does.

What makes an NDE special is that is appears to prove life after death. No vision does that.

If they aren't dead but seem dead then how can it be truly Heaven or Hell or really prove life after death for they have not experience either? I categorized it as a vision for in certain ones of those people can learn things they would have otherwise not known and which can be verified (for example St. John's Apocalypse and other Prophets like him). Perhaps it is most like Elisha opening the eyes of the servant to see the spiritual world, both his mental and physical eye.

 

[Albion]

If they aren't dead but seem dead then how can it be truly Heaven or Hell or really prove life after death for they have not experience either?

Well, NDEs are a mystery. The person appears to have died, based upon the clinical decision but also upon what he reports after being revived. How this can be or why it is cannot be explained. However, it's NOT just a vision or an hallucination since the facts reported can be verified and could not have been known by the person beforehand.

Sightings of God or heaven or hell or fields of poppies or etc. can all be dismissed so far as an NDE is concerned because all of these can be understood as being something like ordinary dreams.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I understand that the SDA do not believe in the immortality of the soul.
One of the references for the realm of the dead is found in Ecclesiastes chapter nine.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

thanks for supporting the SDA belief with the scripture

 

[Saint Steven]

thanks for supporting the SDA belief with the scripture

My pleasure.
But I didn't know that you believed in conscious existence in the afterlife.
Am I understanding you correctly?
I thought SDAs believed in unconscious nonexistence in the afterlife.
If there is a realm of the dead, then there is obviously conscious existence in the afterlife.
"the realm of the dead, where you are going..."

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[SkyWriting]

There are three ways to look at near death experiences.

1. They are true experiences of post-life.
   
2. They are false, and from Satan/demons
3. They are false, and from somewhere else (someone’s imagination)

If #1, we should be able to learn something from them. If #2, we also might be able to learn from them, realizing that they are false. If #3, there’s nothing we can learn from them.

When your brain looses oxygen, reality changes.
My dad has a collapsed lung and constricted blood flow for decades.
I saw him experience a lot of altered reality.
NDA's are almost exclusively caused by heart stoppage and lack of oxygen.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

My pleasure.
But I didn't know that you believed in conscious existence in the afterlife.
Am I understanding you correctly?
I thought SDAs believed in unconscious nonexistence in the afterlife.
If there is a realm of the dead, then there is obviously conscious existence in the afterlife.
"the realm of the dead, where you are going..."

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

First death is sleep, learn what Jesus taught about LAZARUS as the JEWS believed as most folks believe today that the soul was immortal.

If the soul is immortal why is there a resurrection?

The verse you quoted says the dead now not anything does it not?

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(you say the memory goes with soul in contrast to the above verse)

 

[Saint Steven]

The verse you quoted says the dead now not anything does it not?

It also says they have no further reward. Do you believe that?

Obviously, it is all about what happens "under the sun", not in the afterlife.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

It also says they have no further reward. Do you believe that?

Obviously, it is all about what happens "under the sun", not in the afterlife.

Your fate is sealed at death your reward is already recorded in the books no second chance then you receive your reward at the first or the second resurrection

 

[Ceallaigh]

Some people are quite clinically dead. And they would have stayed dead if resuscitation attempts failed. And I've heard of those pronounced dead after resuscitation attempts or upon arrival, who miraculously came back to life.

A guy I knew said he woke up in the morgue after a motorcycle accident. The first thing someone heard him say was "God saved me", but he didn't have a NDE experience to give.

 

[Ceallaigh]

When your brain looses oxygen, reality changes.
My dad has a collapsed lung and constricted blood flow for decades.
I saw him experience a lot of altered reality.
NDA's are almost exclusively caused by heart stoppage and lack of oxygen.

But did he recant an orderly detailed description of what he experienced? And how can the beginning phenomenon of NDEs hovering above their body looking down and seeing everything going on be explained? That's the part that gets me. They can describe what they saw going on in the hospital room in vivid detail as if they had watched drone footage.

 

[Saint Steven]

Your fate is sealed at death your reward is already recorded in the books no second chance then you receive your reward at the first or the second resurrection

So why does Ecclesiastes nine tell you you have no further reward?

Saint Steven said: ↑
It also says they have no further reward. Do you believe that?

Obviously, it is all about what happens "under the sun", not in the afterlife.

 

[Derf]

When your brain looses oxygen, reality changes.
My dad has a collapsed lung and constricted blood flow for decades.
I saw him experience a lot of altered reality.
NDA's are almost exclusively caused by heart stoppage and lack of oxygen.

Some NDEs present an alternative reality, but others an alternative perspective. Ie. Looking down on the scene and your own body from above. I don’t see why or how that would be possible just from brain chemistry changing.

 

[Derf]

First death is sleep, learn what Jesus taught about LAZARUS as the JEWS believed as most folks believe today that the soul was immortal.

If the soul is immortal why is there a resurrection?

The verse you quoted says the dead now not anything does it not?

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(you say the memory goes with soul in contrast to the above verse)

Can you provide a source showing Jews believed in an immortal soul in Jesus’ time?

 

[SkyWriting]

Some NDEs present an alternative reality, but others an alternative perspective. Ie. Looking down on the scene and your own body from above. I don’t see why or how that would be possible just from brain chemistry changing.

The air force did high-g testing when a number of pilots became disoriented and
found themselves "outside of the plane." There is one part of the brain that
"Decides" where you are and what your orientation is. When this section looses
blood flow a pilot will "float" out of their body occasionally. The air force has taken steps
to change how the plane flies so this happens less. It is believed a number of
crashes are due to out of body experiences during flight due to poor blood flow.
Pilots now wear pressure suits than pressure the legs and body to help avoid this.

This same part of the brain has you walking upright because the lenses in our
eyes have us actually seeing everything upside down.

 

[Saint Steven]

Some NDEs present an alternative reality, but others an alternative perspective. Ie. Looking down on the scene and your own body from above. I don’t see why or how that would be possible just from brain chemistry changing.

Exactly. There is something quite incredible happening there. The mind, with senses intact (seeing, hearing), is experiencing something that actually happened while the person was physically unconscious.

 

[SkyWriting]

But did he recant an orderly detailed description of what he experienced? And how can the beginning phenomenon of NDEs hovering above their body looking down and seeing everything going on be explained? That's the part that gets me. They can describe what they saw going on in the hospital room in vivid detail as if they had watched drone footage.

Blind people create "scenes" in their mind based on noises they hear.
And the person might not even have their eyes closed at the time.

 

[Saint Steven]

Blind people create "scenes" in their mind based on noises they hear.
And the person might not even have their eyes closed at the time.

Can they tell you what color of clothes you are wearing?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Blind people create "scenes" in their mind based on noises they hear.
And the person might not even have their eyes closed at the time.

The thing is they're brain dead at the time. I'm not a believer in this. But there are some things about it I can't think of an explanation for.

 

[Derf]

The thing is they're brain dead at the time. I'm not a believer in this. But there are some things about it I can't think of an explanation for.

If they are really “brain dead”, and they are really still experiencing something, then it would seem to point to an ability to experience things after our senses are gone. Are these experiences accurate? Testimony says they are, but how do we apply the scriptural testimony test of two or three witnesses to an experience of one?

Has anyone ever heard of two people “dying” in the same event and coming back with the same story? Including, perhaps, even interacting with each other in the spirit world?