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Do Creationists Believe in Talking Snakes?

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Whether fish or amphibian, God made them, right?

Exactly. It really does not matter. Our focus should be on giving glory to Jesus Christ and in living for Him (shining the light of Christ unto others).
 
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Visions, dreams and parables are always identified in scripture before they are presented. Neither the creation account, nor the account of the fall are prefaced with such an identification. Therefore, we can only come to one conclusion—the language surrounding the events of creation and the fall are literal.


Freth: “Visions, dreams and parables are always identified in scripture before they are presented.”

This isn’t true at all. Psalm 22 has long been taken to be a prophecy of the crucifixion. It is not identified as a dream or a vision. We are left to figure that out.

Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled
me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me.
They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
Psalm 22: 16-18 NIV

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the
LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down
before him,
Psalm 22:27 NIV

Psalm 2 is also a prophecy. Nothing in the text identifies it as a vision of the future, but to be true it must be a vision of the future.

Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain?
Psalm 2:1 NIV

The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.
Psalm 2:4 NIV

“I have installed my King [Or king] on Zion, my holy hill.”
Psalm 2:6 NIV
 
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Yes, if they believe their Bible.

BTW ~ Are you not a creationist? (i.e. that God created everything)?


I am certainly not a young earth creationist. The term “old earth creationist” doesn’t appeal to me, so I just say I’m not a creationist.

Christians who aren’t creationists fully accept the thesis statement in Genesis 1:1.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1 NIV

After that, we differ with creationists on many points.
 
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I am certainly not a young earth creationist. The term “old earth creationist” doesn’t appeal to me, so I just say I’m not a creationist.

Christians who aren’t creationists fully accept the thesis statement in Genesis 1:1.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1 NIV

After that, we differ with creationists on many points.

But if you believe Genesis 1:1, you would also be a creationist, too. For if you believe God created everything, then you are a creationist. To say that you are not a creationist implies that you do not believe Genesis 1:1 and you do not believe God created everything. For a creationist is a person who believes God created the Heavens and the Earth. Only God deniers who hold to Macro-Evolution can honestly say they are not creationists. A person who believes Genesis 1:1 cannot say they are not a creationist. To say otherwise would be a contradiction.
 
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Show me the passages where God classifies the different animals as Scientists do and you might be on to something. However, man can make conclusions about the animal kingdom based on observation and study, and I am not denying there is some truth to their claims in the reason why they classify the way they do, but are they interested in the things of God? Most Scientists are not interested in what God's Word says.

As for Macro-Evolution. I do not believe Genesis chapter 1 and Macro-Evolution from Charles Darwin teach the same thing. One is a naturalistic explanation to explain away God and the other is simply reading and believing God's Word. The choice is yours to choose. You cannot mix the two (even though many have attempted to do so). In Evolution, the stars and the moon come before day 4 of creation. Many have tried to be clever and insert imaginary theories like the Gap Theory or the Day Age Theory to cram in Evolution, but these theories are not found in Scripture.

But again, the creation is not as important as say preaching Jesus Christ and in living for Him. I believe the most important aspect of our faith is knowing God and in making Him known to others and having the love of God. To be fully surrendered to Jesus should be the goal of our lives and not trying to argue over how man classifies the animal kingdom.
Scientists, whether Christian or not, are interested in the explanatory power of observable phenomena. On evolution, they believe that the fossil record (among other things) supports an old universe, an old earth, and a pattern of evolution. They don't say that the theory is proven, they can simply point to the weight of evidence consistent with it. As with any scientific theory, if there were evidence that disproved it, they'd have to go back to the drawing board. There is a point where science's ability to explain ends. Most honest scientists admit that. Many may fervently disagree with what people of faith believe, but that will be for different reasons. This doesn't feel very complicated.
 
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Scientists, whether Christian or not, are interested in the explanatory power of observable phenomena. On evolution, they believe that the fossil record (among other things) supports an old universe, an old earth, and a pattern of evolution. They don't say that the theory is proven, they can simply point to the weight of evidence consistent with it. As with any scientific theory, if there were evidence that disproved it, they'd have to go back to the drawing board. There is a point where science's ability to explain ends. Most honest scientists admit that. Many may fervently disagree with what people of faith believe, but that will be for different reasons. This doesn't feel very complicated.

Secular scientists are biased to believing the Earth is old for two reasons.

#1. They have been brain washed over and over and over since they were a kid to believe this way.
For if you are fed a lie long enough, it simply becomes fact for a person (Unless of course God opens their eyes to the truth on the matter).

#2. An old Earth runs contrary to a normal reading of the Bible. Some (not all) who deny God's existence know this and thus they favor a worldview or theory without God.​

There are actually many evidences for a young Earth, but most simply do not give such evidence the time of day because they either do not believe in God or they don't plainly accept what God's Word says, or they want Evolution to be true for their own personal reasons. In my experience: Christians who are more worldly or who are blind to certain basic moral truths in the Bible hold to the view that the Earth is old. Granted, this does not mean all Christians are this way. It just has been my experience, though.

I believe Old Earth Creationists are reading into the Bible what they want to be true, rather than reading the Bible at face value to derive their theology or worldview. Nobody has a timemachine to truly check to see if the Earth is truly millions of years old or not. It makes sense that the vast majority of godless people are believing a lie so as to explain away a world without God.

Now, I do believe that the Earth is round, and the Bible does not appear to openly teach this. But knowing the Earth is round or a sphere (and not flat) is more observable evidence or Observable Science and common sense in what we see around us.
 
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Secular scientists are biased to believing the Earth is old for two reasons.

#1. They have been brain washed over and over and over since they were a kid to believe this way.
For if you are fed a lie long enough, it simply becomes fact for a person (Unless of course God opens their eyes to the truth on the matter).

#2. An old Earth runs contrary to a normal reading of the Bible. Some (not all) who deny God's existence know this and thus they favor a worldview or theory without God.​

There are actually many evidences for a young Earth, but most simply do not give such evidence the time of day because they either do not believe in God or they don't plainly accept what God's Word says, or they want Evolution to be true for their own personal reasons. In my experience: Christians who are more worldly or who are blind to certain basic moral truths in the Bible hold to the view that the Earth is old. Granted, this does not mean all Christians are this way. It just has been my experience, though.

I believe Old Earth Creationists are reading into the Bible what they want to be true, rather than reading the Bible at face value to derive their theology or worldview. Nobody has a timemachine to truly check to see if the Earth is truly millions of years old or not. It makes sense that the vast majority of godless people are believing a lie so as to explain away a world without God.

Now, I do believe that the Earth is round, and the Bible does not appear to openly teach this. But knowing the Earth is round or a sphere (and not flat) is more observable evidence or Observable Science and common sense in what we see around us.
Yes, but where is the objective evidence for a young earth?
 
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Yes, but where is the objective evidence for a young earth?

We should always first establish truth by the Bible first.

#1. Jesus referred to Adam and Eve in the beginning because he refers back to Genesis chapter 2 with the first phrase used for the first man and woman in joining together as one flesh as huband and wife. The man is told that he shall leave father and mother and cleave unto his wife.

For Jesus said:
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mark 10:6-9).

In Genesis 2, it states:
“And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (Genesis 2:23-24).​

#2. Luke 11:50-51 says, “That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias,...”

Notice the passage does not talk about from the time of monkeys, or ape like men, or a pool of slime in connection to the foundation of the world. Here we see Scripture tie in “the foundation of the world” with the words, “from the blood of Abel”; Which suggests that Abel was not too far off from the time or period since the “foundation of the world” which has been laid by God in Genesis chapter 1. Evolution is an obvious deception or lie of the enemy to try and deceive unbelievers into explaining a world without God. It's so obvious. The world's way of thinking is not God's way of thinking.​

#3. The genealogy of Jesus Christ from Mary's line to Adam can be traced (or read) in Luke 3:23-38.

If we are to read Scripture literally and or normally like a child, there is no real room for millions of years. For we can read about how the line of Jesus can be traced all the way back to Adam in Luke 3. I do not see a correct number of ancestors listed that would support a “millions of years type ancestory” in Luke 3, and nor do I see any mention of how there was any ancestors in Christ's line being left out, either. To say so otherwise is simply to add to the text.
#4. Death clearly happened as a result of the Fall and not before the Fall.

There is no mention of sin or death entering the world before the Fall of Adam.
Plus, Romans 5:12 says that death was a result of one man's sin (Which was by Adam).

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12).

This is confirmed in the fact that God told Adam if he were to eat of the wrong tree, he would die that day (See: Genesis 2:17).

But if you believe in an Old Earth, death happened before the Fall of Adam. But this kind of thinking goes against the plain teaching of the Bible.​

In fact, the belief in a Young Earth is what a normal person would have in a normal reading and study of the Scriptures. The only reason you would want to believe in an Old Earth is because of what secular science says and not what the Bible says.

Most Christians (such as myself) who stand behind the Global Flood, believe the Earth to be thousands of years in age and not millions of years old because they know the Bible and ancient civilizations to have been recorded as being only thousands of years in age. Christians also know the Earth to be young because the tremendous amount of evidence that supports a world wide Global Flood, too. In fact, this does not include the other different categories of evidences that back up the Scriptures, as well.

Anyways, when secular scientists date fossils and rock layers, they don't factor in the Global Flood into their findings. They make assumptions that the world is millions of years old and then date things accordingly. How do I know they make such wrong assumptions? Well, secular scientists had dated the findings of a recently erupted volcano to be a million years old. This means that they are biased towards dating things to be Old. Also, secular scientists claim that many rocks layers are millions of years in age, yet trees have been found growing through out these rock layers, though. Secular scientists also ignore the fact that seashells on top of mountains would have not gotten blasted away by the elements if they were sitting up there for millions of years, too. In fact, seashells on top of mountains all over the world is one of the many incredible proofs that support a Global Flood and a Young Earth. Also, there are over 270 Flood Legends all over the world (With a good portion of them paralleling the various facts within Genesis). Fossil graveyards have been found buried all over the world. Trees have been fossilized standing up all over the world. Man's denial of a Global Flood (i.e. Secular Scientists and atheists) having fulfilled New Testament prophecy (2 Peter 2:3-6); And the list goes on and on.

However, what is the real problem with Old Earth Creationism?

Well, Old Earth Creationism not only does not line up with the scientific facts but it also sides itself with Secular Historical Science (of which cannot be proven because we do not have a time machine to actually show it's real age). However, the real problem with Old Earth Creationism is that it is a model that came about from Macro-Evolution (Darwinism); And under the world view of Macro-Evolution (Darwinism) you can technically do what is good and right in your own eyes. This is called "Moral Relativism" and it leads to chaos. In fact, under this World View: A person could say that when they murder someone, they are just one single celled organism eliminating another single celled organism by Natural Selection or survival. On the other hand, if a person were to believe in the Bible, they would be held accountable to a Creator God and a high moral code that tells them there is a right and a wrong.


Side Note:

Also, the two major theories to explain an Old Earth do not fit with a normal reading of the Bible. The Day Age Theory does not work because God defines a day in Genesis 1 as a 24 hour day with saying that day has an evening and a morning. The Gap Theory does not work because Scripture does not mention elsewhere about this Gap Theory clearly tying it in with Genesis chapter 1. To add to God's Word is dangerous and there are warnings against it at the end of our Bible (i.e. Revelation 22:18).
 
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FaithT

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We should always first establish truth by the Bible first.

#1. Jesus referred to Adam and Eve in the beginning because he refers back to Genesis chapter 2 with the first phrase used for the first man and woman in joining together as one flesh as huband and wife. The man is told that he shall leave father and mother and cleave unto his wife.

For Jesus said:
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mark 10:6-9).

In Genesis 2, it states:
“And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (Genesis 2:23-24).​

#2. Luke 11:50-51 says, “That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias,...”

Notice the passage does not talk about from the time of monkeys, or ape like men, or a pool of slime in connection to the foundation of the world. Here we see Scripture tie in “the foundation of the world” with the words, “from the blood of Abel”; Which suggests that Abel was not too far off from the time or period since the “foundation of the world” which has been laid by God in Genesis chapter 1. Evolution is an obvious deception or lie of the enemy to try and deceive unbelievers into explaining a world without God. It's so obvious. The world's way of thinking is not God's way of thinking.​

#3. The genealogy of Jesus Christ from Mary's line to Adam can be traced (or read) in Luke 3:23-38.

If we are to read Scripture literally and or normally like a child, there is no real room for millions of years. For we can read about how the line of Jesus can be traced all the way back to Adam in Luke 3. I do not see a correct number of ancestors listed that would support a “millions of years type ancestory” in Luke 3, and nor do I see any mention of how there was any ancestors in Christ's line being left out, either. To say so otherwise is simply to add to the text.
#4. Death clearly happened as a result of the Fall and not before the Fall.

There is no mention of sin or death entering the world before the Fall of Adam.
Plus, Romans 5:12 says that death was a result of one man's sin (Which was by Adam).

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12).

This is confirmed in the fact that God told Adam if he were to eat of the wrong tree, he would die that day (See: Genesis 2:17).

But if you believe in an Old Earth, death happened before the Fall of Adam. But this kind of thinking goes against the plain teaching of the Bible.​

In fact, the belief in a Young Earth is what a normal person would have in a normal reading and study of the Scriptures. The only reason you would want to believe in an Old Earth is because of what secular science says and not what the Bible says.

Most Christians (such as myself) who stand behind the Global Flood, believe the Earth to be thousands of years in age and not millions of years old because they know the Bible and ancient civilizations to have been recorded as being only thousands of years in age. Christians also know the Earth to be young because the tremendous amount of evidence that supports a world wide Global Flood, too. In fact, this does not include the other different categories of evidences that back up the Scriptures, as well.

Anyways, when secular scientists date fossils and rock layers, they don't factor in the Global Flood into their findings. They make assumptions that the world is millions of years old and then date things accordingly. How do I know they make such wrong assumptions? Well, secular scientists had dated the findings of a recently erupted volcano to be a million years old. This means that they are biased towards dating things to be Old. Also, secular scientists claim that many rocks layers are millions of years in age, yet trees have been found growing through out these rock layers, though. Secular scientists also ignore the fact that seashells on top of mountains would have not gotten blasted away by the elements if they were sitting up there for millions of years, too. In fact, seashells on top of mountains all over the world is one of the many incredible proofs that support a Global Flood and a Young Earth. Also, there are over 270 Flood Legends all over the world (With a good portion of them paralleling the various facts within Genesis). Fossil graveyards have been found buried all over the world. Trees have been fossilized standing up all over the world. Man's denial of a Global Flood (i.e. Secular Scientists and atheists) having fulfilled New Testament prophecy (2 Peter 2:3-6); And the list goes on and on.

However, what is the real problem with Old Earth Creationism?

Well, Old Earth Creationism not only does not line up with the scientific facts but it also sides itself with Secular Historical Science (of which cannot be proven because we do not have a time machine to actually show it's real age). However, the real problem with Old Earth Creationism is that it is a model that came about from Macro-Evolution (Darwinism); And under the world view of Macro-Evolution (Darwinism) you can technically do what is good and right in your own eyes. This is called "Moral Relativism" and it leads to chaos. In fact, under this World View: A person could say that when they murder someone, they are just one single celled organism eliminating another single celled organism by Natural Selection or survival. On the other hand, if a person were to believe in the Bible, they would be held accountable to a Creator God and a high moral code that tells them there is a right and a wrong.


Side Note:

Also, the two major theories to explain an Old Earth do not fit with a normal reading of the Bible. The Day Age Theory does not work because God defines a day in Genesis 1 as a 24 hour day with saying that day has an evening and a morning. The Gap Theory does not work because Scripture does not mention elsewhere about this Gap Theory clearly tying it in with Genesis chapter 1. To add to God's Word is dangerous and there are warnings against it at the end of our Bible (i.e. Revelation 22:18).
What about evolution? In another thread on this sub forum, posters were talking about the change over time where reptilian jaw bones are in the inner ear of the mammal....all humans and mammals have two reptile jaw bones in their middle ears. Then let’s not forget the fish with feet and walking on land fish. How can that be explained if not for evolution?

i really want to understand this....it bothers me so much. So I hope you can explain further. You’ve already brought up some good points to think about.
 
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Now, I just read that some fish (few) are able to walk on land. So, from a Biblical perspective, how can this be? Many scientists say that some fish evolved but is that macro or micro evolution?

The key point isn't that modern fish can walk on land, but rather that fish of the past, evolved bones in their feet and wrists and became amphibians in what we call the devonian period, some 350-400 million years ago. As evidenced by the fossil and geologic succession. Just putting that out there.

And it's important to understand the difference between fish and amphibians. Because if people don't know the difference between a fish and amphibian, or a dolphin and a shark, or an axolotl and a cat fish, or a bird and a mammal, then they really aren't in a position to judge anything on this topic.


And at 48:00 minutes in, there is even a brief contrasting of fish limbs to prehistoric tetrapod limbs. Just what was briefly discussed in this forum.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.
 
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What about evolution? In another thread on this sub forum, posters were talking about the change over time where reptilian jaw bones are in the inner ear of the mammal....all humans and mammals have two reptile jaw bones in their middle ears. Then let’s not forget the fish with feet and walking on land fish. How can that be explained if not for evolution?

i really want to understand this....it bothers me so much. So I hope you can explain further. You’ve already brought up some good points to think about.

I think God has a sense of humor.
I really wish we would just call a Platypus a “duck beaver” already.
But no. I don't believe these are transitional creatures. I just see all these things as God created them all and they can have similiarities between one another sometimes. I think they can be a test of faith for some. But for me: God has proven that Evolution is false according to His Word. We also do not see tons of transitional fossils of the different species, either.

If you really want to see the banruptcy of Evolution, here is a really good video you should check out.

 
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The key point isn't that modern fish can walk on land, but rather that fish of the past, evolved bones in their feet and wrists and became amphibians in what we call the devonian period, some 350-400 million years ago. As evidenced by the fossil and geologic succession. Just putting that out there.

And it's important to understand the difference between fish and amphibians. Because if people don't know the difference between a fish and amphibian, or a dolphin and a shark, or an axolotl and a cat fish, or a bird and a mammal, then they really aren't in a position to judge anything on this topic.


I do understand the classifications just fine. I may not get all the species correct, but that is not my field of study. The Bible is my field of study and expertise. Secular Science that involves Evolution is not of God. It never was. Yet, man has tried to reconcile the two with no real satisfaction. If Evolution was true, there would be tons of transitional fossils. But we simply do not find any. Why? Because the Bible got it right that Evolution is the biggest lie of Satan in these last days. Evolution gives people an excuse that there is no God and that we all just evolved from the slime.
 
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I do understand the classifications just fine. I may not get all the species correct, but that is not my field of study. The Bible is my field of study and expertise. Secular Science that involves Evolution is not of God. It never was. Yet, man has tried to reconcile the two with no real satisfaction. If Evolution was true, there would be tons of transitional fossils. But we simply do not find any. Why? Because the Bible got it right that Evolution is the biggest lie of Satan in these last days. Evolution gives people an excuse that there is no God and that we all just evolved from the slime.

We find plenty of transitionals, such as those described in the video above.

Answer me this, how do you propose, based on the video above, that shubins team was able to discover the fossils that they did and where they did, but not for common descent of life throughout earth history?

I'll post again for reference:

And I'll just leave this here as well:
Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

Until young earthers can come up with a valid argument against the scientific law of superposition in geology, their ideas are helpless in attempts at refuting the existence of transitional fossils and evolution at large.
 
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We find plenty of transitionals, such as those described in the video above.

Answer me this, how do you propose, based on the video above, that shubins team was able to discover the fossils that they did and where they did, but not for common descent of life throughout earth history?

I'll post again for reference:

And I'll just leave this here as well:
Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

Until young earthers can come up with a valid argument against the scientific law of superposition in geology, their ideas are helpless in attempts at refuting the existence of transitional fossils and evolution at large.

Nope. It's imaginary. There are not a ton of transitional fossils. If there were, we would see them in Science Museums all over the world. So the video is false.
 
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We find plenty of transitionals, such as those described in the video above.

Answer me this, how do you propose, based on the video above, that shubins team was able to discover the fossils that they did and where they did, but not for common descent of life throughout earth history?

I'll post again for reference:

And I'll just leave this here as well:
Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

Until young earthers can come up with a valid argument against the scientific law of superposition in geology, their ideas are helpless in attempts at refuting the existence of transitional fossils and evolution at large.

So do you believe in the Day Age Theory or the Gap Theory or some other Theory to explain Evolution?

Did you derive your view of Evolution from reading the Bible, or from watching secular Scientists who deny God?
 
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Nope. It's imaginary. There are not a ton of transitional fossils. If there were, we would see them in Science Museums all over the world. So the video is false.

Shrugs. Your word against ours. In my opinion, museums are packed full of them.
 
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Job 33:6

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So do you believe in the Day Age Theory or the Gap Theory or some other Theory to explain Evolution?

Did you derive your view of Evolution from reading the Bible, or from watching secular Scientists who deny God?

I'm a christian scientist and I derive my view from my personal studies of geology and paleontology. Not even necessarily from a textbook but rather I understand it through personal observations.
 
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FaithT

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I'm a christian scientist and I derive my view from my personal studies of geology and paleontology. Not even necessarily from a textbook but rather I understand it through personal observations.
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Shrugs. Your word against ours.

In my opinion, museums are packed full of them.

You do realize that museum who push Evolutionary Science is made up of God rejecting Scientists, right? Do you not realize that Darwinism comes from a belief that attempts to explain away God? Evolution and the Bible do not mix. The stars were created on Day 4 according to the Bible. But Evolution in your museums says stars came before the Earth. Where is your trust? Is it in the Bible or museums?
 
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