The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

[HARK!]

Google translate is very limited. It also doesn't translate idioms.
It's pretty obvious you don't know Greek and you are definitely not a qualified translator, yet here you are. What incredible hubris!

That's very interesting. So how would I say "one of the sabbaths" in Greek?

 

[DamianWarS]

If that is the modern day understanding of these three words; can you explain why when I type μια των σαββατων. into Google Translate, it yields "one of the Saturdays?"

https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=μια των σαββατων&op=translate

Google is using the information it has and it just has "one of the Sabbaths" so that's what it translates. Biblical Greek and modern Greek also have different rules so Google translate should not be considered an expert over actual bible translations, it can be used as a tool but not to prove anything.

the word "μια" is an adjective that points to a missing head noun. This is not something controversial it is a matter of the Greek inflections and grammar that there is a implict word missing in the text. The word must be a feminine noun (also genative case and plural number). Sabbaton does not fit and is not the head noun for one that it is describing. "day" is the implict word as the Greek for day (hemera) is a feminine noun and fits the context. This is a fact that the CLV seems to ignore. Since you can't see this or study it yourself means you don't understand Greek enough to be analysing it's words critically.

 

[HARK!]

This is a fact that the CLV seems to ignore. Since you can't see this or study it yourself means you don't understand Greek enough to be analysing it's words critically.

Jerome and the rest of the translators of the Vulgate 382 seemed to ignore this too. 1600 years later, you come along and tell us that's not what Greek meant back then. Martin Luther also translated this verse as "an der Sabbather einem;" but perhaps he too was not as educated as you. I'll have to beg that you please excuse us for our ignorance.

 

[DamianWarS]

Jerome and the rest of the translators of the Vulgate 382 seemed to ignore this too. 1600 years later, you come along and tell us that's not what Greek meant back then. Martin Luther also translated this verse as "an der Sabbather einem;" but perhaps he too was not as educated as you. I'll have to beg that you please excuse us for our ignorance.

so its only the sources you find that are relevant right? are you an expert on Latin and German too that you can comment on it's grammar? They use different rules than English and words carry things like gender and case that English doesn't. We can't just superimpose English grammar over any language and act like it works, because it doesn't. You seem to love your logical fallacies terms, well the one you're playing is called an "Invincible ignorance fallacy" where you ignore all evidence to the contrary and only use sources that agree with your position.

 

[prodromos]

That's very interesting. So how would I say "one of the sabbaths" in Greek?

You certainly wouldn't use "μια" as it is the wrong gender for "Σάββατο"

 

[HARK!]

Do you know Latin and German? They use different rules than English and words carry things like gender and case that English doesn't. We can't just superimpose English grammar over any language and act like it works, because it doesn't. You seem to love your logical fallacies, well the one you're playing is called a "Invincible ignorance fallacy" where you ingore all evidence to the contrary and only use sources that agree with your position.

I've considered the monolithic lump of evidence, that you are presenting, since I was two years old in Sunday school. Since then I've learned that there might be some truth outside of that dogma. I find it ironic that you view me as the one who falls short on the objectivity. I haven't taken a position. I presented a supposition which might harmonize scripture. Do you have anything else to add?

 

[HARK!]

Do you know Latin and German? They use different rules than English and words carry things like gender and case that English doesn't.

Perhaps you might want to explore the rules of those languages in the corresponding times of those translators, in your unyielding objective pursuit of the truth.

 

[klutedavid]

That's very interesting. So how would I say "one of the sabbaths" in Greek?

Hark, may I ask your opinion. Which translation below is the correct translation of Mark 16:1-2.

Mark 16:1-2 (CLV)
And, for the elapsing of the sabbath, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, buy spices, that, coming, they should be rubbing Him. And, very early in the morning on one of the sabbaths, they are coming to the tomb at the rising of the sun.

Mark 16:1-2 (KJV)
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This isn't about winning a debate. I'm sorry if you see it that way. This is about truth. Pointing out your flawed logical arguments should be a learning experience for you, my friend.

"I'm right because I said so" isn't a valid argument.

I'm speaking of your assertion regarding the Road to Emmaus.

I've read that chapter twice now; and I don't see a reference to the day. I've asked you repeatedly to provide the verse that points out the day. See post #525.

I won't ask again.

I didn't say it was about winning a debate. Luke 24 is the one and Mark 16 is the other (although Mark only mentions it in passing but does imply in context it was on the same day). It is very simple...

 

[DamianWarS]

I haven't taken a position

your position is implicit and even if you don't hold to it personally this thread is acting as a vacuum where you have chosen to defend a certain position over another. harmonizing would not ignore the grammar of the greek but rather value it. the grammar says "one [dative feminine singular noun] of the sabbaths" you are free to search for a greek feminine noun that will fit this context. if you want to be more transparent with the translation some translations like the KJV put the word "day" in italics to indicate this word is not explicitly part of the original text but it's difficult to communicate greek grammar in translations without getting technical. you would have to use a footnote to communicate that "one" is pointing to a feminine noun not formally written but from context and other similar phrases we can responsibly infer this word is "day" as it is a feminine noun. (Sabbath is not a feminine noun so it's not Sabbath, "sabbaths" is also plural and "one" is always singular also "sabbaths" in the context is in the wrong case). the text reads:

μια των σαββατων
one [day] of-the sabbaths

but really it's:

μια-Adj-DFS [N-DFS] των-Art-GNP σαββατων-N-GNP
one [day] of-the sabbaths

if the meaning was the day of the sabbath it would use a dative neuter singluar form of "one" to agree with the "sabbath" (a neuter noun) and look like this

ενι των σαββατων

which would more litterally say
one [sabbath] of-the sabbaths

 

[HARK!]

Hark, may I ask your opinion. Which translation below is the correct translation of Mark 16:1-2.

Mark 16:1-2 (CLV)
And, for the elapsing of the sabbath, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, buy spices, that, coming, they should be rubbing Him. And, very early in the morning on one of the sabbaths, they are coming to the tomb at the rising of the sun.

Mark 16:1-2 (KJV)
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Two of the shabbath (holy assemblies) occur in spring on the first and last day of the Feast of unleavened bread (Matstsah). One occurs in the summer, this is the Feast of Weeks (Shavuot). And four occur in the fall in the seventh month. Yom Teru'ah (Feast of Trumpets) on the first day of the seventh month; the second is Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement); and two during the feast of Sukkoth (Feast of Tabernacles) on the first and last day. Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals.[4]

High Sabbaths - Wikipedia

 

[HARK!]

your position is implicit and even if you don't hold to it personally this thread is acting as a vacuum where you have chosen to defend a certain position over another. harmonizing would not ignore the grammar of the greek but rather value it. the grammar says "one [dative feminine singular noun] of the sabbaths" you are free to search for a greek feminine noun that will fit this context. if you want to be more transparent with the translation some translations like the KJV put the word "day" in italics to indicate this word is not explicitly part of the original text but it's difficult to communicate greek grammar in translations without getting technical. you would have to use a footnote to communicate that "one" is pointing to a feminine noun not formally written but from context and other similar phrases we can responsibly infer this word is "day" as it is a feminine noun. (Sabbath is not a feminine noun so it's not Sabbath, "sabbaths" is also plural and "one" is always singular also "sabbaths" in the context is in the wrong case). the text reads:

μια των σαββατων
one [day] of-the sabbaths

but really it's:

μια-Adj-DFS [N-DFS] των-Art-GNP σαββατων-N-GNP
one [day-N-DFS] of-the sabbaths

if the meaning was the day of the sabbath it would use a dative neuter singluar form of "one" to agree with the "sabbath" (a neuter noun) and look like this

ενι των σαββατων

which would more litterally say
one [sabbath] of-the sabbaths

I've been studying the arguments that you put forth concerning the Greek. In my search, I stumbled across this article:

μια των σαββατων - Debunking the gender/case argument

My search started with three days and three nights. I don't just accept what I'm told at face value. I trust what Yahshua says over any explanation that would explain his words away.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

TWO SABBATHS IN ONE DAY (HIGH SABBATH) WHEN JESUS DIED

I am not getting involved with this discussion although just wanted to pass on a comment. That is, Jesus died on the preparation day of the normal Sabbath *Matthew 27:62 (NISSAN 14 midday to afternoon) where the Passover lambs were killed in preparation for the week long Passover/Unleavened bread feast which began NISSAN 15 which fell that year on a 7th day weekly Sabbath. When an annual Feast sabbath fell on a weekly seventh day Sabbath of the 10 commandments it was called a "High Sabbath [day]" (first and last day - of the Feast of Unleavened Bread/Passover were sabbaths of no work that can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle). It was actually two sabbaths in one day that year when Jesus rested in the tomb which is the reason why the Priests were trying to remove him from the cross before sundown *Mark 15:42. This does not happen often but when an annual Feast sabbath (no work) falls on a weekly Sabbath (4th commandment) it is called a "high day or high Sabbath" *John 19:31. The Greeks applications and word meanings should be in harmony to scripture contexts and application of the yearly and weekly Sabbath at the time of Christs death there was two Sabbaths in play on the same day here from he weekly and annual Feast.

 

[prodromos]

I've been studying the arguments that you put forth concerning the Greek. In my search, I stumbled across this article:

μια των σαββατων - Debunking the gender/case argument

Completely objective and unbiased article

 

[klutedavid]

The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Two of the shabbath (holy assemblies) occur in spring on the first and last day of the Feast of unleavened bread (Matstsah). One occurs in the summer, this is the Feast of Weeks (Shavuot). And four occur in the fall in the seventh month. Yom Teru'ah (Feast of Trumpets) on the first day of the seventh month; the second is Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement); and two during the feast of Sukkoth (Feast of Tabernacles) on the first and last day. Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals.[4]

High Sabbaths - Wikipedia

You seem to be answering another question.

So I will ask you again.

Which translation below is the correct translation of Mark 16:1-2.

Mark 16:1-2 (CLV)
And, for the elapsing of the sabbath, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, buy spices, that, coming, they should be rubbing Him. And, very early in the morning on one of the sabbaths, they are coming to the tomb at the rising of the sun.

Mark 16:1-2 (KJV)
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I've been studying the arguments that you put forth concerning the Greek. In my search, I stumbled across this article:

μια των σαββατων - Debunking the gender/case argument

My search started with three days and three nights. I don't just accept what I'm told at face value. I trust what Yahshua says over any explanation that would explain his words away.

Is he trying to imply that it was the first Sabbath of the counting of the omer of weeks for Shavuot? I am not sure I see the significance of his bringing in Hebrew...Rosh vs Yom

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Two of the shabbath (holy assemblies) occur in spring on the first and last day of the Feast of unleavened bread (Matstsah). One occurs in the summer, this is the Feast of Weeks (Shavuot). And four occur in the fall in the seventh month. Yom Teru'ah (Feast of Trumpets) on the first day of the seventh month; the second is Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement); and two during the feast of Sukkoth (Feast of Tabernacles) on the first and last day. Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals.[4]

High Sabbaths - Wikipedia

Mikrayim do not always fall on a weekly Shabbat, but sometimes they do (as is the case we are discussing). The only moed that is specifically called a Shabbat in Torah is Yom Kippur.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Mikrayim do not always fall on a weekly Shabbat, but sometimes they do (as is the case we are discussing). The only moed that is specifically called a Shabbat in Torah is Yom Kippur.

Keep in mind though the application here (one of the Sabbaths) in the Greek and its application is to the holy convocation (no work) of Leviticus 23 (Feast of unleavened bread) that is why it is translated as sabbaton (no work rest; one of the sabbaton; High day/Sabbath). I understand and agree with your point though.

 

[DamianWarS]

I've been studying the arguments that you put forth concerning the Greek. In my search, I stumbled across this article:

μια των σαββατων - Debunking the gender/case argument

My search started with three days and three nights. I don't just accept what I'm told at face value. I trust what Yahshua says over any explanation that would explain his words away.

this goes back to the Invincible ignorance fallacy. the article you posted has extreme bias as noted in its opening statements calling a traditional position synonymous with propagandists. This tells me the entire article is agenda-driven to expose the propagandists but not to determine what the Greek actually says. The author should lay everything on the table and not invoke any conspiracies but simply say regardless of where the chips fall he will look for a truthful and faithful understanding of the text. But that is not what he says and instead exposes a rather unsightly bias. Try finding a less biased position with someone with actual credentials.

 

[Bro.T]

This applies to you not me.
If God had wanted to designate 1st and last day of unleavened bread, Sabbaths, He would have done so.
But God did not designate 1st and 7th ULB as Sabbaths.
God specifically stated that preparing and cooking food was permitted on 1st/7th ULB.
Preparing/cooking of food is specifically prohibited on the Sabbath.
Thus nobody has the scriptural authority designate 1st/7th ULB as Sabbaths.

Numbers 15:32-35
32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day.
33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly,
34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him.
35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp."​

In Leviticus chapter 23rd Ch. Read this chapter you will find the Lord's weekly Sabbath and also the Lord's High and Holy Days, which we call High Holy Sabbaths. Each High Day has a very important meaning. It doesn't matter if you call them High Sabbath or just Holy Days. But the most important thing is to do them. In Leviticus 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

You keep the 1st day of the week, Sunday, which is not in the Bible at all to keep.

Notice, once again the book states these are the feasts of the Lord, and they are Holy gatherings and must be observed in their season.