Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church orthodox

[tall73]

This statement is a problem for me. Are you trying to argue that the wheat inside of God's Church are not a part of God's Kingdom? God's Kingdom according to the scriptures are where ever Gods' people are this of course includes the Church on earth.

I am stating that God's kingdom is just what it says. God is a King. And His Kingdom is His realm. He rules from heaven, hence it is the kingdom of heaven. But it includes the earth, and anywhere else. He is sovereign over all. At the end of the age the wicked are removed from His kingdom, and the sons of the kingdom will remain, and enter into reigning with Him. They inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world. All of earth's history is building to that culmination point. It describes it as entering the kingdom, inheriting the kingdom, receiving the kingdom, being preserved for the kingdom, being found worthy of the kingdom, etc.

The kingdom of heaven includes the church, but is certainly not just the church. In fact, the field of the earth is part of it.


Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

I Thessalonians 2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

Hebrews 12: Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

2 Peter 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Matthew 26:29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

Mark 9:47: And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire

Mark 10:15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

Luke 12:32 “Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Acts 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Galatians 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


2 Thessalonians 1:5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!

 

[tall73]

According to Matthew 13 the wheat are Gods' people they are grown from the good seed (the Word - Luke 8:11) in the field which is the world. It is among these good seed and wheat (God's people) that the tares are sown not outside of the field where the wheat is growing. There are all professed believers that have received the Word of God. Those who did not receive the good seed (the Word) are not growing side by side with those of the wheat. Matthew 13 is quite specific to the wheat and tares growing together *Matthew 13:30 side by side until the harvest (second coming) at which time we see the tare uprooted in the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23. For me your argument does not make much sense here as the reason the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest is given in Matthew 13:29 where the servants (the angels) ask Jesus should they gather up the tares growing together along side the wheat (God's people) which Jesus responds, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. If the tares were people outside of the Church they are not growing together side by side with the wheat (God's people) and there is uprooting the tares would not uproot the wheat. Keep in mind also that Matthew 13 is not the kingdom of heaven it is a parable as to what the kingdom of heaven is likened unto.

They are growing together side by side because they are all in the same field--the world. The righteous and the wicked live side by side in the world.

But at the end He will remove the wicked from the world.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am stating that God's kingdom is just what it says. God is a King. And His Kingdom is His realm. He rules from heaven, hence it is the kingdom of heaven. But it includes the earth, and anywhere else. He is sovereign over all. At the end of the age the wicked are removed from His kingdom, and the sons of the kingdom will remain, and enter into reigning with Him. They inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world. All of earth's history is building to that culmination point. It describes it as entering the kingdom, inheriting the kingdom, receiving the kingdom, being preserved for the kingdom, being found worthy of the kingdom, etc.

The kingdom of heaven includes the church, but is certainly not just the church. In fact, the field of the earth is part of it.


Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

I Thessalonians 2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

Hebrews 12: Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

2 Peter 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Matthew 26:29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

Mark 9:47: And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire

Mark 10:15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

Luke 12:32 “Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Acts 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Galatians 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


2 Thessalonians 1:5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!

This as long as it is does not address the post you are responding to. The parable of the wheat and tares is not God's kingdom it is a parable that is likened unto the kingdom of heaven. Like most of the other parables. As posted earlier I believe the scriptures support what I have shared with you showing that the children of God's kingdom is the church in the world that the tares are sown into. Are you denying that the "children of the kingdom" are not Gods Church? I am not sure why you feel these scriptures you have provided here that are in regards to other parables support your view in your post here to be honest.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

They are growing together side by side because they are all in the same field--the world. The righteous and the wicked live side by side in the world.

But at the end He will remove the wicked from the world.

You just provided a statement without addressing anything in the scriptures in the post you are quoting from that disagree with you or did you answer any of the questions asked of you. The children of the kingdom (the Church) is also in the world and the scriptures teach that the wheat and the tares grow together side by side.

 

[tall73]

This as long as it is does not answer my question to you. The parables of the wheat and tares is not God's kingdom it is a parable that is likened unto the kingdom of heaven. Like most of the other parables.

Of course it is talking about God's kingdom.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

The parables speak of aspects of the kingdom. But notice the above is from the explanation that Jesus' gave, and is no longer in the form of a parable, but is describing what will happen. And it is speaking of the kingdom.

 

[tall73]

You just provided a statement without addressing anything in the scriptures in the post you are quoting from that disagree with you or did you answer and of the questions asked of you. The Church is also in the world and the scriptures teach that the wheat and the tares grow together side by side.

No, I really did answer it. The church is not mentioned in the parable. The field of the world is. That is the answer to all those points. But you can see the breakdown in the next post if it helps.

The field is the world.

The wicked and the righteous are both in the world, side by side.

 

[tall73]

God's Kingdom according to the scriptures are everywhere Gods' people are

God's kingdom is everywhere He reigns, and He fills the heavens and earth.

and this of course includes the wheat (God's people) who are the Church on earth.

The sons of the kingdom are the description in the parable. And some are in the visible church, and some are not, but all are His. And they are in the field of the earth. The word church is not mentioned in the parable.

According to Matthew 13 the wheat are Gods' people they are grown from the good seed (the Word - Luke 8:11) in the field which is the world.

Agreed.

It is among these good seed and wheat (God's people) that the tares are sown not outside of the field where the wheat is growing.

Agreed, the sons of the kingdom/the good crop, are in the same field as the tares/the sons of the wicked one, they are both in the field of the world.

There are all professed believers that have received the Word of God. Those who did not receive the good seed (the Word) are not growing side by side with those of the wheat.

The gospel of the kingdom goes to the whole world before the end. And the sons of the kingdom and the sons of the evil one are both growing side by side in the field--the world.

Matthew 13 is quite specific to the wheat and tares growing together *Matthew 13:30 side by side until the harvest (second coming) at which time we see the tare uprooted in the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.

Exactly. They both are side by side in the world--the field. And the wicked are removed. All that is wicked is removed from God's kingdom. And the righteous remain and enter into their inheritance.

For me your argument does not make much sense here as the reason the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest is given in Matthew 13:29 where the servants (the angels) ask Jesus should they gather up the tares growing together along side the wheat (God's people) which Jesus responds, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. If the tares were people outside of the Church they are not growing together side by side with the wheat (God's people)

The church was not mentioned. The field is the world. They are side by side in the world.

and there is uprooting the tares would not uproot the wheat.

Yes it would, because they are all in the same field, in the world, side by side.

Keep in mind also that Matthew 13 is not the kingdom of heaven it is a parable as to what the kingdom of heaven is likened unto.

Keep in mind Jesus' parable is speaking of the kingdom. And we see that in the explanation where He is no longer speaking in a parable, but is very much describing the kingdom of God:

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Of course it is talking about God's kingdom.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

The parables speak of aspects of the kingdom. But notice the above is from the explanation that Jesus' gave, and is no longer in the form of a parable, but is describing what will happen.

So lets' look at both together in context and including the explanations of Jesus. The scriptures are are fairly specific here so there is no need to guess what they are saying.

Matthew 13:24-30 [24], Another parable put he forth to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man which sowed good seed in his field:[25], But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. [26], But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.[27], So the servants of the householder came and said to him, Sir, did not you sow good seed in your field? from where then has it tares? [28], He said to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Will you then that we go and gather them up? [29], But he said, No; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them.[30], Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you

Notice...

1. Jesus is the Sower that sowed the good seed which the children of the kingdom "Matthew 13:38
2. The good seed (wheat) are the children of the kingdom - Matthew 13:38
3. The bad seed (tares or weeds) represent the children of the wicked one - Matthew 13:37
4. Sown by the devil Matthew 13:39
5. In this parable the children of God (wheat) and the children of the devil (tares) grow together side by side not separated
6. The harvest is the end of the world - Matthew 13:40

Now you agree all the above is scripture right? I want to focus on the part you disagree with from the scriptures in Jesus explanation.

Notice...

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world (agreed); the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Questions to help the discussion

1. Where are the wheat? They are in the world - Matthew 13:38
2. Are God's children from the parable the children of Gods kingdom in the world? Yes Gods children of the kingdom and they are in the word - Matthew 13:38

So right here is perhaps something you may need to consider. The scriptures not me say that God's the good seed are the children of the kingdom and the children of the kingdom in this parable are in the world.

..........'

I am sure you will agree that all the above is scripture right? Now let me ask you again. Are you trying to argue that the wheat (Gods people) inside of God's Church in the world are not a part of God's Kingdom? God's Kingdom according to the scriptures are everywhere Gods' people are and this of course includes the wheat (God's people) who are the Church on earth.

According to Matthew 13 the wheat are Gods' people they are grown from the good seed (the Word - Luke 8:11) in the field which is the world. It is among these good seed and wheat (God's people) that the tares are sown not outside of the field where the wheat is growing. There are all professed believers that have received the Word of God.

Those who did not receive the good seed (the Word) are not growing side by side with those of the wheat. Matthew 13 is quite specific to the wheat and tares growing together *Matthew 13:30 side by side until the harvest (second coming) at which time we see the tare uprooted in the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.

For me your argument does not make much sense here as the reason the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest is given in Matthew 13:29 where the servants (the angels) ask Jesus should they gather up the tares growing together along side the wheat (God's people) which Jesus responds, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

If the tares were people outside of the Church they are not growing together side by side with the wheat (God's people) and there is uprooting the tares would not uproot the wheat. Keep in mind also that Matthew 13 is not the kingdom of heaven it is a parable as to what the kingdom of heaven is likened unto.

Hope this is helpful

 

[tall73]

Matthew 13 is quite specific to the wheat and tares growing together *Matthew 13:30 side by side until the harvest (second coming) at which time we see the tare uprooted in the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.

Yes. The wicked live on the same planet as you. You are side by side. They are on the same earth. They are in the same world.

The field is the world. The righteous and wicked are there. God removes the wicked from the world at the second coming.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Of course it is talking about God's kingdom.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

The parables speak of aspects of the kingdom. But notice the above is from the explanation that Jesus' gave, and is no longer in the form of a parable, but is describing what will happen. And it is speaking of the kingdom.

For me here your trying to argue that "the children of the kingdom" are not Gods' Church in the world when the scriptures specifically teach they are in this parable...

Matthew 13:38 [38], The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one

The children of the kingdom are the Church in the world. The Children of the kingdom are God's Church!

 

[tall73]

So lets' look at both together in context and including the explanations of Jesus. The scriptures are are fairly specific here so there is no need to guess what they are saying.

Matthew 13:24-30 [24], Another parable put he forth to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man which sowed good seed in his field:[25], But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. [26], But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.[27], So the servants of the householder came and said to him, Sir, did not you sow good seed in your field? from where then has it tares? [28], He said to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Will you then that we go and gather them up? [29], But he said, No; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them.[30], Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you

Notice...

1. Jesus is the Sower that sowed the good seed which the children of the kingdom "Matthew 13:38

We agree that Jesus, the Son of Man is the Sower who sowed the good seed which is the children of the kingdom.

2. The good seed (wheat) are the children of the kingdom - Matthew 13:38

We agree the good seed/wheat are the children of the kingdom.

3. The bad seed (tares or weeds) represent the children of the wicked one - Matthew 13:37

We agree the tares represent the children of the wicked one.

4. Sown by the devil Matthew 13:39

We agree the tares/children of the wicked one are sown by the devil.

5. In this parable the children of God (wheat) and the children of the devil (tares) grow together side by side not separated

We agree the sons of the kingdom(wheat) and the sons of the evil one (tares) grow side by side, not separate.

6. The harvest is the end of the world - Matthew 13:40

Now you agree all the above is scripture right? I want to focus on the part you disagree with from the scriptures in Jesus explanation.

We agree the harvest is the end of the world.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes. The wicked live on the same planet as you. You are side by side. They are on the same earth. They are in the same world.

The field is the world. The righteous and wicked are there. God removes the wicked from the world at the second coming.

Addressing the post and the scriptures you are quoting from that disagree with you will provides for a better conversation rather then making statement that do not address anything in the post you are quoting from.

 

[tall73]

For me here your trying to argue that Gods' Church in the world is not a part of God's Kingdom when the scriptures specifically teach they are in this parable...

The field is the world. The sons of the kingdom are in the world. The church is not mentioned. You mentioned the church. Ellen White mentioned the church. Jesus mentioned the field of the world.

You are adding the word church. Could some of the tares be in church? Sure. Could they be out of church? Sure. Could some of the wheat be in church? Yes. Could they be out of church? Yes. None of that is mentioned.

They could also be at the grocery store, the hardware store, or anywhere else in the world. They are all side by side in the world.

The children of the kingdom are in the world...

Indeed they are, and the children of the evil one.

Why would this not be an application to God's people that is applied to the church in the world when the wheat are growing together along side the tares?

Because He didn't say the field is the church. He said the field is the world. It was Ellen White who said we must understand it to signify the church of Christ in the world.

However, Jesus said the wheat and the weeds, the sons of the kingdom and the sons of the evil one are in the world.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

God's kingdom is everywhere He reigns, and He fills the heavens and earth.

Agreed so God's kingdom as shown in the parable of the wheat and the tares show that God's children of the kingdom (the Church) are a part of God's Kingdom that are in the world. -Matthew 13:38

The sons of the kingdom are the description in the parable. And some are in the visible church, and some are not, but all are His. And they are in the field of the earth.

Agreed

The word church is not mentioned in the parable.

Matthew 13:25 says that the tares are grown among the wheat. Not separately from the wheat. Therefore are among the Church (the children of the Kingdom) that is in the world. This also agreeing with Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30

 

[tall73]

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world (agreed); the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Questions to help the discussion

1. Where are the wheat? They are in the world - Matthew 13:38
2. Are God's children from the parable the children of Gods kingdom in the world? Yes Gods children of the kingdom and they are in the word - Matthew 13:38

The children of the kingdom are in the world.

So right here is is perhaps something you may need to consider. The scriptures not me say that God's the good seed are the children of the kingdom and the children of the kingdom in this parable are in the world.

Yes indeed they are. The sons of the kingdom are in the world. Very much agreed. The field is the world.

I am sure you will agree that all the above is scripture right? Now let me ask you again. Are you trying to argue that the wheat (Gods people) inside of God's Church in the world

You just added a word to what we agreed on. It doesn't say inside of God's church. Some of the children of the kingdom are not in the church, some are. But the church was not mentioned in the Scriptures.

are not a part of God's Kingdom?

The sons of the kingdom are a part of God's kingdom.

God's Kingdom according to the scriptures are everywhere Gods' people are

God's Kingdom is everywhere God the king reigns. It includes heaven, the world, etc.

In particular the sons of the kingdom are in the world, which is part of God's kingdom.

and this of course includes the wheat (God's people) who are the Church on earth.

You just added again to the text. The wheat are the sons of the kingdom. It said nothing of the church. It said the wheat and tares are in the field which is the earth.

According to Matthew 13 the wheat are Gods' people they are grown from the good seed (the Word - Luke 8:11) in the field which is the world.

The sons of the kingdom are in the field which is the world, yes.

It is among these good seed and wheat (God's people) that the tares are sown not outside of the field where the wheat is growing.

Of course the tares are not outside of the world. They are in the world, not floating in space. They are in the field, which is the world. They are in the world next to the wheat.

We agree completely that the sons of the kingdom and thee sons of the evil one share the same world, which is the field.

There are all professed believers that have received the Word of God.

No, not everyone in the field, the world, is a professed believer of God. You added that to the text again.

Those who did not receive the good seed (the Word) are not growing side by side with those of the wheat. Matthew 13 is quite specific to the wheat and tares growing together *Matthew 13:30 side by side until the harvest (second coming) at which time we see the tare uprooted in the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.

They are side by side in the field--the world. They are not on separate planets. One is not on the planet and the other floating in space. They are very much together, side by side, in the field, which is the world.

For me your argument does not make much sense here as the reason the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest is given in Matthew 13:29 where the servants (the angels) ask Jesus should they gather up the tares growing together along side the wheat (God's people) which Jesus responds, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

No reason it shouldn't make sense. Jesus returns to the earth. He destroys the sons of the evil one from the earth, where they are next to the sons of the kingdom, also on the earth. The sons of the kingdom shine in the kingdom of their father.

If the tares were people outside of the Church they are not growing together side by side with the wheat (God's people) and there is uprooting the tares would not uproot the wheat.

Again you added the word church. The field is the world. They are both side by side in the world.

Keep in mind also that Matthew 13 is not the kingdom of heaven it is a parable as to what the kingdom of heaven is likened unto.

Hope this is helpful

Keep in mind the parable is explained in literal terms which mentions the kingdom twice.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The field is the world. The sons of the kingdom are in the world. The church is not mentioned. You mentioned the church. Ellen White mentioned the church. Jesus mentioned the field of the world.

For me what your not considering I believe in this parable is that the children of God's kingdom are the Church that is in the world - Matthew 13:38. Matthew 13:25 says that the tares are growing among the wheat. Not separately from the wheat. Therefore the tares are among the children of the kingdom (the Church) that is in the world. This also agreeing with Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30

You are adding the word church. Could some of the tares be in church? Sure. Could they be out of church? Sure. Could some of the wheat be in church? Yes. Could they be out of church? Yes. None of that is mentioned.

No. The scriptures teach that these tares are growing side by side with the children of the kingdom (the Church) and they were not to be gathered lest the children of the kingdom (the Church) that is in the world are uprooted. If the tares were growing separately from the children of the kingdom this would not be a problem, meaning your argument does not fit the parable.

 

[tall73]

For me what your not considering I believe in this parable is that the children of God's kingdom are in the world - Matthew 13:38.

Oh no, I assure you, the sons of the kingdom are in the world. They are in the field which is the world. He says it. No doubt.

Matthew 13:25 says that the tares are growing among the wheat. Not separately from the wheat.

Of course. The field is the world. Both are growing together on the world.

Therefore the tares are among the Church that is in the world.

You just added the word church again which is not in the parable or the explanation. They are in the world.

No. The scriptures teach that these tares are growing side by side with the children of the kingdom and they were not to be gathered lest the children of the kingdom are uprooted also because. If the tares were growing separately from the children of the kingdom this would not be a problem.

How could they be growing separately? They are both in the same field--the world. They are in the world.

They are in the world. The field is the world.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The children of the kingdom are in the world.

Agreed

Yes indeed they are. The sons of the kingdom are in the world. Very much agreed. The field is the world.

Agreed

You just added a word to what we agreed on. It doesn't say inside of God's church. Some of the children of the kingdom are not in the church, some are. But the church was not mentioned in the Scriptures.

No. I added scripture showing that the wheat and tares grow together side by side and are not grown separately from the wheat. According to the scriptures and COL, the parable is a description of that which pertains to the kingdom of God, His work of salvation of men; and this work is accomplished through the church. True, the Holy Spirit has gone out into all the world; everywhere it is moving upon the hearts of men; but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the harvest of God. Tell me how can gathering the tares result in uprooting the wheat (God's people) if there is no application to the church here and the parables connection to the Church in the world as in Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30 ?

 

[tall73]

Therefore the tares are among the Church that is in the world.

38 The field is the world

Ok, which did Jesus say was the field?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

38 The field is the world

Ok, which did Jesus say was the field?

See bottom section of post # 649 God's children of the kingdom (the church) that is in the world. According to the scriptures and COL, the parable is a description of that which pertains to the kingdom of God, His work of salvation of men; and this work is accomplished through the church. True, the Holy Spirit has gone out into all the world; everywhere it is moving upon the hearts of men; but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the harvest of God. Tell me how can gathering the tares result in uprooting the wheat (God's people) if there is no application to the church here and the parables connection to the Church in the world as show in Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30 ?