Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church orthodox

[BobRyan]

So your criteria is the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith both of which do not keep the Sabbath?

My point is that some Bible details are so glaringly obvious even they admit to it - and they don't even keep the Bible Sabbath as written in scripture regarding Ex 20:10

 

[DamianWarS]

It is the same moral law of God in both covenants that defines what sin is - so then it is sin under the Old Covenant "to take God's name in vain" and also sin to do it under the New Covenant.

Your going to have to unpack moral law. What is your criteria for what is moral and what is not? (Please no circles)

As the two Confessions of Faith already pointed out state - the same TEN are written on the heart under the New Covenant.

And what about a biblical answer?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

what "non essential use of electrical grid" are you monitoring??

I would not go down this rabbit hole with this poster. Just looking for any reason why you can't keep the Sabbath today.

 

[DamianWarS]

what "non essential use of electrical grid" are you monitoring??

The only one we have control over, personal consumption

 

[BobRyan]

moral law -- that defines sin and includes the TEN - see 1 John 3:4 , Eph 6:1-2 etc
civil law - that applies only to the theocracy and ends with the theocracy
ceremonial law - that is based in animal sacrifice and ends at the cross -- where those sacrifices are declared as ended

And I would add -

Health law - where we all know that biology did not change at the cross.

I was looking for biblical ceritera as to which laws are imported over to the new convenant. (Hint: this is a show your work answer)

what part above did you not get?

And why is it you think all major denominations on planet Earth see this Bible detail about the Ten being included in the moral law of God written on the heart -- yet you struggle with it?

hint: Matt 19 "keep the Commandments" and when asked "Which ones" - Jesus quotes from ... wait for it.... "the TEN"

 

[DamianWarS]

I would not go down this rabbit hole with this poster. Just looking for any reason why you can't keep the Sabbath today.

I'm looking for an explaination and criteria as to why certain laws are pulled out and other are not. Everyone seems to avoid transparency with this.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm looking for an explaination and criteria as to why certain laws are pulled out and other are not. Everyone seems to avoid transparency with this.

Not at all, it's gone over many times with you I don't think another try would change anything.

 

[DamianWarS]

My point is that some Bible details are so glaringly obvious even they admit to it - and they don't even keep the Bible Sabbath as written in scripture regarding Ex 20:10

So how come no one can tell me the criteria used if it's so obvious? The only answer seems to be the "10 commandments and a couple of other ones" but no reasons why these laws are isolated over others

 

[BobRyan]

The only one we have control over, personal consumption

you are confused on that point as I pointed out before - even the Jews kept warm on the Sabbath in winter, had guards stationed at the gates etc. Basic necessities provided. The power grid does not "employ more people" when 100 more watts gets used. What happens is that the same power is generated no matter what you use -- that is the physics of it.

 

[DamianWarS]

moral law -- that defines sin and includes the TEN - see 1 John 3:4 , Eph 6:1-2 etc

This is not good enough. How have you determined it includes the 10? Apparently there are a few more too... So there is a criteria being used that no one can articulate for some reason. If we can't establish the criteria we can't discuss this rationally.

 

[BobRyan]

moral law -- that defines sin and includes the TEN - see 1 John 3:4 , Eph 6:1-2 etc
civil law - that applies only to the theocracy and ends with the theocracy
ceremonial law - that is based in animal sacrifice and ends at the cross -- where those sacrifices are declared as ended
...
hint: Matt 19 "keep the Commandments" and when asked "Which ones" - Jesus quotes from ... wait for it.... "the TEN"

So how come no one can tell me the criteria used if it's so obvious? The only answer seems to be the "10 commandments and a couple of other ones" but no reasons why these laws are isolated over others

I am not sure you are reading the details in the posts at this point.

This is not good enough. How have you determined it includes the 10?

Christ was pretty clear and it is to the point that all Christian denominations are admitting it as well.

obvious in Eph 6:1-2 that it includes the 10
obvious in Matt 19 that it includes the ten
obvious in James 2 that it includes the ten

You have free will - you can reject any detail you wish.

(or might you now be admitting that TEN are in but now want to know why Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 are being included as well? or is it that you think biology changed at the cross? what is the issue?)

If we can't establish the criteria we can't discuss this rationally.

It was already listed.

Your argument reduces to "how is it that everyone but me can see this?" and my response is "you have free will" you can choose to see or not see as you wish.

 

[DamianWarS]

you are confused on that point as I pointed out before - even the Jews kept warm on the Sabbath in winter, had guards stationed at the gates etc. Basic necessities provided. The power grid does not "employ more people" when 100 more watts gets used. What happens is that the same power is generated no matter what you use -- that is the physics of it.

We have a choice to subscribe to it during the Sabbath for non essential use (this is not including keeping warm in the winter which would be essential) or we can limit our use to the essential use only. The power grid is an example, there are plenty more, but it is a man-powered system and regardless if our use has an impact or not if you value keeping the letter of the law then you should disconnect from man-powered systems during the sabbath which would be counter-sabbath. It's one day a week and it is perfectly doable so long as you plan correctly which is also a biblical value.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Adventism is clearly a cult of a sorts, much like Mormonism, but more benign. Many of the adventists that I know, are almost unaware of the teachings of EW, but hold to the simple traditions like sabbath and preference for vegetarian food.
In fact, most adventists I've talked to are shocked to hear what EW has said.

On the other hand, I'm surprised we haven't gotten rid of the Catholic practice of having the first day of the week (Sunday) be honored as sabbath. Clearly sabbath is on the sixth day (Saturday) and the early church met on the first day of the week as we do (Sunday). Of course to say that this is some kind of salvation issue is yet another hyperbolic stretch that cults tend to do to keep their members separated from the rest of the world.

So we are a cult because we believe in all of God's Ten commandment Exodus 20 and the dietary laws that God gave us who is our Creator and knows what is best for us? If that is your definition of cult, than I am guilty. The Bible tells us in both OT and NT how important the commandments are. I would rather be labeled a cult and obey God than be called righteous by man and disobey God.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

God bless

 

[BobRyan]

regardless if our use has an impact or not if you value keeping the letter of the law then you should disconnect from man-powered systems

you have free will - imagining that something that requires no work by man - is not allowed on Sabbath is up to you to imagine or not. I am not going to debate that with you.

so far from your posts - you do not appear to be one who is so focused on making sure you keep the Sabbath that you would go to such extremes.

 

[DamianWarS]

Not at all, it's gone over many times with you I don't think another try would change anything.

All I have heard is opinion and skirting the issue. No one wants to take the issue seriously like it's a joke or something so how can I view how you value the Sabbath as serious? If keeping the letter of the Sabbath is serious than subscribing to man-powered systems for non essential use should also be looked at seriously

 

[BobRyan]

If keeping the letter of the Sabbath is serious than subscribing to man-powered systems for non essential use should also be looked at seriously

a fringe application is not taken seriously when the one proposing it also does not take his own suggestion - and cannot explain why something that involves no added work should be avoided on Sabbath.

And don't see that extreme idea being a point of debate or discussion in the title or OP - so it is not going to attract very many readers to this thread if we keep chasing it.

 

[DamianWarS]

you have free will - imagining that something that requires no work by man - is not allowed on Sabbath is up to you to imagine or not. I am not going to debate that with you.

That's like saying it's ok to buy bread on the Sabbath so long as a robot makes and delivers it to your home and it's billed but disregard all the guys monitoring and servicing the robot. These industries has a calsification for essential workers that they don't enforce on the Sabbath. That's not our problem because we don't have control over it but we do have control over the power we use regardless of how the systems count that power. We are not counting things based on worldly definitions.

 

[DamianWarS]

a fringe application is not taken seriously when the one proposing it also does not take his own suggestion - and cannot explain why something that involves no added work should be avoided on Sabbath

I don't value keeping the letter of the Sabbath so I do follow my own suggestions. You're the one who says you need to keep the letter but I guess that only works so long as it's comfortable.

 

[BobRyan]

That's like saying it's ok to buy bread on the Sabbath so long as a robot makes and delivers it to your home and it's billed but disregard all the guys monitoring and servicing the robot. .

In your illustration adapted to "electricity" the robot was already coming to every house in the neighborhood with bread no matter what you do and you don't have to pay anything on Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't value keeping the letter of the Sabbath .

clearly