Border Crisis

[mark46]

But if your neighbors house was on fire and he fled into your yard, would you make him go back before the fire was out?

Again, you talk as if the refugees live near our borders. That is NOT the case. They planned and made a 1000 mile trip, with the required payoffs and cooperation from the Mexican governments and warlords.

 

[Hank77]

If that doesn't work, other actions relating to incentives, trade and tariffs are the next step.

It's my understanding that that is what Trump did. He threatened them with tariffs if they didn't do something about stopping the caravans, which was closing Mexico's southern border. Mexico offered some housing, etc. in Mexico but they had to stay there in Mexico.
If I remember correctly, Guatemala also got involved in closing that border.

 

[mark46]

It's my understanding that that is what Trump did. He threatened them with tariffs if they didn't do something about stopping the caravans, which was closing Mexico's southern border. Mexico offered some housing, etc. in Mexico but they had to stay there in Mexico.
If I remember correctly, Guatemala also got involved in closing that border.

I agree.

The issues with regard to Trump have to do with treatment after folks entered the US, including abolishing the Obama program that was getting folks to appear at hearings.

This will "blow up" on Biden because there is little support for the positions of the left. Biden needs to improve processes, have better facilities, appoint hundreds of judges, and appoint advocates. But in the end, he will need to threaten Mexico as Trump did. And Biden will be know as Deporter In Chief II, Obama being the first.

 

[Aldebaran]

I agree.

The issues with regard to Trump have to do with treatment after folks entered the US, including abolishing the Obama program that was getting folks to appear at hearings.

This will "blow up" on Biden because there is little support for the positions of the left. Biden needs to improve processes, have better facilities, appoint hundreds of judges, and appoint advocates. But in the end, he will need to threaten Mexico as Trump did. And Biden will be know as Deporter In Chief II, Obama being the first.

He'll have to find a way to make as many of them voters for him before deporting too many.

 

[wing2000]

It's my understanding that that is what Trump did. He threatened them with tariffs if they didn't do something about stopping the caravans, which was closing Mexico's southern border. Mexico offered some housing, etc. in Mexico but they had to stay there in Mexico.
If I remember correctly, Guatemala also got involved in closing that border.

Guatemala forcibly turned back a caravan from Honduras in January and as far as I know, Mexico and Guatemala continue to block caravans. Have you read otherwise?

 

[disciple Clint]

I haven't been talking about a remain in Mexico agreement. I've been referring to remaining in Central America, stopping the caravans coming from Central America.

My understanding is that if you are fleeing Central America and seeking asylum you are required by international law to seek refuge in the first country you enter that would provide a safe environment.

 

[Desk trauma]

My understanding is that if you are fleeing Central America and seeking asylum you are required by international law to seek refuge in the first country you enter that would provide a safe environment.

The safe third country rule is/was a US policy not international law. The UN conventions on refugees do not require that the asylum seekers seek asylum in the first “safe” country they enter.

 

[Hank77]

Guatemala forcibly turned back a caravan from Honduras in January and as far as I know, Mexico and Guatemala continue to block caravans. Have you read otherwise?

If caravans are still being blocked who are the new people coming that the Ambassador is trying to make clear to, in English and Spanish that the border isn't open and it isn't the right time to come?

 

[wing2000]

If caravans are still being blocked who are the new people coming that the Ambassador is trying to make clear to, in English and Spanish that the border isn't open and it isn't the right time to come?

People traveling in smaller groups or individually?

 

[mark46]

If caravans are still being blocked who are the new people coming that the Ambassador is trying to make clear to, in English and Spanish that the border isn't open and it isn't the right time to come?

From listening

1) Biden wants $4B of foreign aid from Congress (zero chance).

2) There is a commitment to humane treatment for those reaching our border. However, the expectation should be that most will be deported (as under Obama).

4) More humane treatment will result in accepting lots more children, and include faster treatment for everyone.

5) There will be continuing pressure on Mexico and the triangle countries to prevent triangle citizens from crossing Mexico and ending up at our borders. This will include various assistance programs and various kinds of pressure.

6) The administration knows what they are doing and will greatly slow down the flow.
======
However, the BOTTOM LINE is the US citizens are greatly divided on the issues of the border, and of immigration in general.

To be clear, I have been a political liberal for well over 50 years, and I would support strong pressures on the triangle countries and Mexico. I would also support deporting a very high percentage of those who come, commencing the deportation process after a hearing within 72 hours. I would also support a 5 year pause on all immigration not related to jobs, other than immediate family members. I would do this IF we give DACA folk citizenship and give status and a path to citizenship for those undocumented who have not been convicted of a violent crime. This would add at least 2 million citizens per year during the five year period.

 

[wing2000]

1) Biden wants $4B of foreign aid from Congress (zero chance).

...giving people a reason to stay in their home countries is a whole lot cheaper than processing them when they are captured in the US.

 

[mark46]

...giving people a reason to stay in their home countries is a whole lot cheaper than processing them when they are captured in the US.

Tell me when you secure a vote of 60 senators to support such an approach.

Until then, Biden (as did Obama and Trump), will continue to pressure those countries and Mexico.

Of course the US should work much harder to support and build up Central American countries. As with Mexico, their problems become our problems. Monroe Doctrine anyone?

 

[Hank77]

To be clear, I have been a political liberal for well over 50 years, and I would support strong pressures on the triangle countries and Mexico. I would also support deporting a very high percentage of those who come, commencing the deportation process after a hearing within 72 hours. I would also support a 5 year pause on all immigration not related to jobs, other than immediate family members. I would do this IF we give DACA folk citizenship and give status and a path to citizenship for those undocumented who have not been convicted of a violent crime. This would add at least 2 million citizens per year during the five year period.

I agree with all of that but I'd add one thing. Any mother, father, or family caregiver of children that have been deported for no other reason than they were here illegally that they should be allowed to immediately return to their spouse and children or to the children they were caring for. I think this is essential for the sake of the family spiritually, and socially but also for the economic stability of the family which is good for the economic stability of the country. Having families living in poverty and receiving housing subsidies, etc., and children placed in foster care is immoral and fiscally short-sighted.

 

[Speedwell]

If caravans are still being blocked who are the new people coming that the Ambassador is trying to make clear to, in English and Spanish that the border isn't open and it isn't the right time to come?

Even that's not enough. Some of these people speak neither English nor Spanish--which has caused difficulties in adjudicating their asylum cases.

 

[mark46]

Even that's not enough. Some of these people speak neither English nor Spanish--which has caused difficulties in adjudicating their asylum cases.

What percentage of refugees from Mexico speak neither Spanish nor English?

In any case, the issue is that we do not provide advocates for those facing hearings (hearings that all must face). The reality is that if the US were to provide advocates, there are translations services that can be used. Consult the courts in LA and San Diego if you must. They deal with folks whose native language could be any of many dozen.

 

[Desk trauma]

...giving people a reason to stay in their home countries is a whole lot cheaper than processing them when they are captured in the US.

I don't think that it would be. Fixing near failed states is a much larger undertaking then processing asylum seeker who reach our boarder.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't think that it would be. Fixing near failed states is a much larger undertaking then processing asylum seeker who reach our boarder.

But since we have contributed to the failure of those states we maybe should do it anyway.

 

[wing2000]

I don't think that it would be. Fixing near failed states is a much larger undertaking then processing asylum seeker who reach our boarder.

We don't need to fix failed states. We do need to counter the influence of the cartels in neighborhoods which are, after all, funded in large part by Americans.

 

[Landon Caeli]

If caravans are still being blocked who are the new people coming that the Ambassador is trying to make clear to, in English and Spanish that the border isn't open and it isn't the right time to come?

If this isn't the right time to come, just imagine how it's going to look in the summer months, when migration numbers typically do peak... It's going to be beyond out of control.

 

[Desk trauma]

We don't need to fix failed states. We do need to counter the influence of the cartels in neighborhoods which are, after all, funded in large part by Americans.

Oh, we just need to take down the most powerful multi-national organized crime cartels in the hemisphere on foreign soil where there is a long history of resentment towards American intervention? No biggie, surely cheaper than building larger immigration processing centers or hiring more boarder patrol agents.