Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

[Kylie]

Then why would the government allow such a situation where they very well knew that there could have been a possibility that the no vote won thus allowing people to influence the lives of others.

Because the government here in Australia t the time was run by a right wing party who had an interest in not letting gay couples get married.

For one the example of Margaret Court is but one of many.

Margaret Court is facing backlash because she is using her position to spread ideas that are harmful to gay people. Plus, she was recently given an award, but it was for something which she has already received many awards for. So people feel that she is really getting the award because she is spreading harmful viewpoints that our right wing government approves of.

Then once again why did the government allow people to vote on same sex marriage. What if the 'no ‘vote won which was a possibility, what then. The reality is the vote wasn’t about whether gays and lesbians could marry, that could have been done through civil laws. It seemed to be more about changing the Christian idea of marriage and I guess that is why many were opposing the idea.

Wow, there's so much here that's wrong.

The government allowed people to vote on it because the demand for marriage equality got to the point where they just couldn't ignore it anymore.

Yes, it could have been done through civil laws, but the government didn't because they really didn't want to give gay couples in Australia that right. The government did everything they could to give themselves the upper hand, including saying that it was going to be a non-binding vote. In other words, they said that even if everyone voted for marriage equality, they weren't going to be obligated to pass it. The only reason they did was because they realised that it would have been political suicide to vote against it when the vast majority of people voted for it.

And it is not about changing the Christian idea of marriage. It is about changing the legal idea of marriage, and Australia, as a (theoretically secular country, with no state religion) does not have religion influencing politics. Though we all know that it happens (although business influences politics a lot more)

Like I said no one was denying anyone the right to marry in secular society. But I think equating this with violence is a dangerous idea because as far as I understand from history that violence begets violence.

Technically no, but they WERE denying gay people the right to marry the people they love. Telling a gay man that he's free to marry as long as it's to a woman isn't exactly helpful, is it?

The problem is when we have difference perspectives is assuming that any different and even opposing views are because of hatred or descrimination. We as a western society can look at other cultures beliefs and find them strange and alien. But to the other culture they are who they are and we should not take the position that our perspective is the only right one. At least that is what western secular ideals believe.

I believe I have been quite clear.

I do NOT believe it is harmful for a Christian to believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman, and if you want to believe that gay marraige is wrong, that's fine by me.

What is harmful is when a person starts saying, "That couple can't get married because it goes against my beliefs! I think gay marriage is wrong, therefore no one is allowed to do it! Everyone must live according to MY beliefs!"

Certainly biological sex is not on any spectrum. Its binary, the science is clear on this and there are only two biological sexes male and female.

This is very very wrong. There are more than two biological sexes. How do you want to measure it? By chromosomes? Okay. You think that XX and XY are the only possible variations? They're not! "Classical disorders of sex chromosome are Klinefelter syndrome, XX male, XYY male, Turner syndrome, XXX female, and XY female. True hermphroiditism, mixed gonadal dysgenesis, and pure gonadal dysgenesis are also included, because most of these disorders have abnormal sex chromosome." SOURCE

Or do you want to go with the shape of the genitals? Again, incorrect. There's a huge amount of variety. What Does Intersex Look Like at Birth? What to Know

That doesn't deny that there is a self identifying aspect. But where the confusion comes in is when the biology is cut out altogether. Gender is indelibly connected to sex. This is evidence by the conflicts and problems it causes in society when people try to separate it.

Again wrong. The problems are caused when people try to say they are linked when they are not. Can you provide a source that shows that gender identity is "indelibly connected": to biology sex?

I am not either. I believe secular society has the right to determine laws based on rights. But those rights also include free speech and cultural & religious freedoms and inevitably some rights will clash. Once again one has to ask why the government allowed a vote on same sex marriage that could have potentially limit others.

And yet we are not talking about free speech here, were are talking about denying a section of society the right to marry the person they love based on their sexual orientation.

Because like anything we need an objective measure and just not one based on subjective ideas when it comes to such an important thing that can affect other people.

And what makes you think that straight people are the best source of an objective measure for what is best for gay people?

As the idea of gender/transgender ideology has been applied to society we are seeing problems come up when it is applied to practicle life situations. This will only happen more with governments like Bidens allowing executive order changing laws on gender identity or sexual orientation and many are concerned on both sides of politics.

Okay, let's have a look...

Joe Biden’s First Day Began the End of Girls’ Sports
Opinion | Joe Biden’s First Day Began the End of Girls’ Sports

First, this is mostly hidden behind a paywall. Secondly, I see nothing in the section that is available to me to show that a man pretended to be a woman for the purpose of assaulting a woman.

Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter

"Hambrook is a Canadian man who plead guilty to sexual assault and criminal harassment in 2013 after pretending to be a trans woman and gaining access to a women’s shelter. But he also served time for child rape in 2002, and was determined to have multiple mental illnesses and rated as a high re-offense risk during psychiatric assessments, during which he admitted he was not transgender. Hambrook’s is one of the only cases of its kind, and yet it barely lends any credence to bathroom bill arguments. If anything, it proves that vigilance in mental health and transitional housing facilities can never be too high, and that solutions are desperately needed to address violent sufferers of mental illness." SOURCE

Karen White: how 'manipulative' transgender inmate attacked again
Karen White: how 'manipulative' transgender inmate attacked again

This doesn't exactly fit the criteria I asked for, does it? Or do you think a man decided that he wanted to assault a woman in a woman's prisoned, so he decided to become a convicted paedophile who was on remand for grievous bodily harm, burglary, multiple rapes and other sexual offences against women so he could get sent to prison and fulfill his fantasy?

Convicted sex offender seeks access to women’s locker rooms through bathroom law
Convicted sex offender seeks access to women’s locker rooms through bathroom law

Again, this does not fit the criteria I asked for. This is not a person who claimed to be a trans woman purely for the sake of assaulting a woman. She actually is trans, just one who is a criminal.

When the Ideologues Come for the Kids

Was there meant to be a link here?

Then why are some trans women dominating women’s sports. In one case 2 transgirls amassed 15 championship titles that 12 cis girls had worked hard for. The fact is despite hormone therapy the advantage still remains. Transitioning after puberty is too late as males gain bigger heart/lung capacity, skeletel muscles and red blood cells. There are no regulations in junior sports and the regulation for adult sports is that a transwomen only needs to stay under 10.0 nmol/L. The average women have around 3.0 nmol/L which gives transwomen over 3 times the advantage.

Transgender athletes are DESTROYING women’s sports
The average skeletal muscle for women is 21kg and for men is 33kg. if you go through puberty a person has all the benefits of being a male body and even if you transition and reduce your testosterone you are still going to have those benefits. They are going to have the bone structure, the bigger heat and muscles, more red blood cells. Therefore a female athlete competing against a female transgender is always going to be at a disadvantage. The normal testosterone levels for women are 0.12 to 1.79 nmol/L and for men it is 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L. The IOC’s criteria for Transwomen to compete is to have a less than 10.0 nmol/L for 12 months but the average female level is around 3.0 nmol/L which is 3 times the amount and allowing transwomen a large advantage. For student athletes there are no limits and in fact the largest sports body the NCAA doesn’t even require gender confirmation or a legal recognition in order for a Tran’s girl to compete. So transgender girls can have massive advantages over Nate girls in school sports.

As I said, my claim was based on my understanding, whioch was based on accounts written by trans women such as this one: Do transgender women have the same upper body strength as men? - Quora

I did this for SilverBear here #524 IE

How many transgender kids grow up to stay trans?
There are 12 such studies in all, and they all came to the very same conclusion: The majority of kids cease to feel transgender when they get older.
How many transgender kids grow up to stay trans?
A system of gender self-identification would put women at risk
Studies show that 60-90% of children self-identifying as trans stop doing so after puberty
A system of gender self-identification would put women at risk
Gender dysphoria in adolescence: current perspectives
Evidence from the 10 available prospective follow-up studies from childhood to adolescence (reviewed in the study by Ristori and Steensma28) indicates that for ~80% of children who meet the criteria for GDC (gender dysphoria), the GD (gender dysphoria) recedes with puberty.
Gender dysphoria in adolescence: current perspectives

I don't have time to go through that paper now and make a proper response to it.

 

[Kylie]

Depends what you mean by oppression. For some it’s not about oppression but a justified reason to deny people access or the claimed right based on safety or duty or care reasons. Or because there is not enough evidence to justify the allowance.

What? Are you saying they need to justify being in love and wanting to get married?

yes people said all sorts of things. The government based on science said black people were inferior. What was worse is that they used science which should be impartial and fact. People can claim all sorts of things under the guise of religion but that doesn’t make it right. Like I have said there is no Biblical basis for claiming any race is inferior or denying interracial marriage. But there is for opposing same sex marriage.

There is no science that shows that black people are inferior, or that interracial marriages are wrong. Likewise, there is no science that shows that same sex marriage is wrong.

So let’s turn it on its head. Should person C be given rights based on an arbitrary view of who they are? If we use other examples like race, age, height, weight etc. we can test this through biology, genetics and with measurement such as the BMI to determine whether peoples claims are correct or not.

Let's be clear here - no one is saying Person C should get any rights that Person's A and B don't already have.

For example if a person subjectively thought they were Chinese (with Chinese parents) and they were actually European to claim some right to Chinese heritage we can test and verify this with DNA. Why cant we do the same with gender. Otherwise we open the door to using subjective and arbitrary measures instead to objective ones in these important matters that affect society and eligibility.

And how do you propose to objectively determine what a person's sexual orientation or gender identity is? There's no gene for that as far as I know. And biological markers like chromosomes aren't any good either.

But we are not talking about racism but sex identity.

Didn't stop you using it as an analogy.

When I say accept it I don’t means Christians give up their beliefs and then accept it. I mean they accept that secular laws allow same sex marriage. They are not going to break the law but rather accept it. They are acknowledging just like with divorce and abortion that secular society has its own way of seeing and doing things. It is separate to a Christian’s way of life. Christians cannot force secular society to conform to their beliefs. That is the type of acceptance I mean.

Unfortunately, that is not the society that we live in. I've seen lots of Christians act as though they have the right to stop laws being passed simply because they don't like those laws.

No people can disagree with Court but what was happening was not just disagreement. It was a concerted effort to destroy her. This is happening a lot more in modern society. People have been ridiculed and attacked, had threats against them, been sacked or force to stand down and retract their views because of Political correctness.

And, of course, no gay person has ever faced anything like that...

And while I don't approve of people sending threats of violence against Court, I do understand why many people are upset about her receiving awards in a field she has already received multiple awards for and which she has not contributed to for a long time. She has the right to have opinions, but she is not immune to criticism of those opinions. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

Of course not. That is even more reprehensible as it hides behind what is supposed to be a faith that represents love, justice, equality and kindness. It is a sheep in wolfs clothing.

Do you think that denying a person the right to marry the one they love based solely on their sexual orientation is discrimination?

 

[Kylie]

I have indeed answered you, and supported my claims with evidence and examples, more than once. You simply keep reiterating your question as if it has not been addressed.

If for some reason you are unable to decipher my posts, particularly the several directed to you with explanations or Post 509, directed to someone else on the same subject matter, then please read one of the several other responses in the 500+ here, and perhaps one will clarify it to you. I'm simply not reiterating the answers I've already give, in response to your insistent repetition of your same question in which all answers are disregarded.

I don't have time for that. Your question is answered.

Okay. You've made the claim that some verses in Leviticus are ceremonial, others are not. I've asked you to present a method by which we can determine if a particular law is ceremonial or not.

Your answers have been, "You just have to know what ceremonial means," which doesn't actually help, and that we just have to know the context - something which is very open to interpretation.

So no, you have not actually answered the question.

 

[Kylie]

Yet Again, post 509 answers your question.

I don't see where in that post you say, "This law is ceremonial," or, "This law is not ceremonial."

You just go over what it says. You make no determination about whether it is ceremonial or not.

 

[Strathos]

There is no science that shows that black people are inferior, or that interracial marriages are wrong. Likewise, there is no science that shows that same sex marriage is wrong.

There's no science that says that anything is 'right' or 'wrong', because that's not science's job.

 

[stevevw]

State referendums are started by individuals not the government. You should have learned that in high school

I realize this but it is the government that will facilitate that vote. The government can decide make something legal without the vote if they think the issue is a clear matter of peoples rights.

If the situation is as you said that anyone voting no is actually voting rights away then as I said earlier it logically follows that the government allowing a vote is aiding and helping to deny peoples rights. Why didnt the government alos agree with your view and refuse to have a vote and just legalise same sex marriages.

"homosexuals are after our young ones, that’s what they are after” Margaret Court isn't disagreeing, it's bigotry

This reminds me of the Isreal Folau situation. Some people are more fundemental in their beliefs and though I disagree with the way they go about expressing those beliefs it is still within the realm of belief. Court is merely repeating what the Bible states. Those who oppose same sex marriage obviouley do so because they believe it is against Gods laws. In that case it is a sin and according to Christian belief the devil is a real entity behind sin.

As for her above quote I agree this is more extreme that what most Christian believe. But that cannot be used to dismiss her right to express her beliefs in other ways which seems to be what you are trying to do.

But then what do you think about those who take a similar position to Margaret Court but are non-religious. There are many polititioans, wlefare advocates and health professionals who say that gender/transgender ideology is being pushed on society and that young children are being targeted especially in schools and child care. That health professionsals and even parents cannot question or challenge any child that is being pushed into transitioning because they will be called transphobic. That trans activists are pushing this ideology and hiding the truth that it can harm young people and that this approach amounts to child abuse.

Considering the majoirty who experience transgender tendencies have other mental health issues that may also contribute and grow out of it this sets up a situation where many young people are denied proper treatment and may be caused unnescessary suffering and harm that cannot be undone. That amounts to child abuse. We could see many suing the government in the future and another child abuse scandel.

I’m a Pediatrician. How Transgender Ideology Has Infiltrated My Field and Produced Large-Scale Child Abuse.
Today’s institutions that promote transition affirmation are pushing children to impersonate the opposite sex, sending many of them down the path of puberty blockers, sterilization, the removal of healthy body parts, and untold psychological damage.
These harms constitute nothing less than institutionalized child abuse.
I’m a Pediatrician. How Transgender Ideology Has Infiltrated My Field and Produced Large-Scale Child Abuse.
In regards to gender/transgender ideology being promoted in child care and school
“Activists are extremely deliberate in targeting children.
The agenda to de-gender society is being aggressively pursued by those in the education sector and at a political level.”
Pre-schoolers targeted by radical gender activism
Politicised trans groups put children at risk, says expert
Counsellors and other mental health providers fear being labelled transphobic
“They reported inadequate assessments, patients pushed through for early medical interventions and an inability to stand up to pressure from trans lobbies,” Evans said.
Dr Kirsty Entwistle, who warned that “traumatic early experiences”, which might be a factor in a young person’s desire to transition, were not being investigated by medical staff out of fear of being labelled transphobic.
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex
A woman who detransitioned in 2018 says there are many people who have had gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't.
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

 

[VirOptimus]

I realize this but it is the government that will facilitate that vote. The government can decide make something legal without the vote if they think the issue is a clear matter of peoples rights.

If the situation is as you said that anyone voting no is actually voting rights away then as I said earlier it logically follows that the government allowing a vote is aiding and helping to deny peoples rights. Why didnt the government alos agree with your view and refuse to have a vote and just legalise same sex marriages.

This reminds me of the Isreal Folau situation. Some people are more fundemental in their beliefs and though I disagree with the way they go about expressing those beliefs it is still within the realm of belief. Court is merely repeating what the Bible states. Those who oppose same sex marriage obviouley do so because they believe it is against Gods laws. In that case it is a sin and according to Christian belief the devil is a real entity behind sin.

As for her above quote I agree this is more extreme that what most Christian believe. But that cannot be used to dismiss her right to express her beliefs in other ways which seems to be what you are trying to do.

But then what do you think about those who take a similar position to Margaret Court but are non-religious. There are many polititioans, wlefare advocates and health professionals who say that gender/transgender ideology is being pushed on society and that young children are being targeted especially in schools and child care. That health professionsals and even parents cannot question or challenge any child that is being pushed into transitioning because they will be called transphobic. That trans activists are pushing this ideology and hiding the truth that it can harm young people and that this approach amounts to child abuse.

Considering the majoirty who experience transgender tendencies have other mental health issues that may also contribute and grow out of it this sets up a situation where many young people are denied proper treatment and may be caused unnescessary suffering and harm that cannot be undone. That amounts to child abuse. We could see many suing the government in the future and another child abuse scandel.

I’m a Pediatrician. How Transgender Ideology Has Infiltrated My Field and Produced Large-Scale Child Abuse.
Today’s institutions that promote transition affirmation are pushing children to impersonate the opposite sex, sending many of them down the path of puberty blockers, sterilization, the removal of healthy body parts, and untold psychological damage.
These harms constitute nothing less than institutionalized child abuse.
I’m a Pediatrician. How Transgender Ideology Has Infiltrated My Field and Produced Large-Scale Child Abuse.
In regards to gender/transgender ideology being promoted in child care and school
“Activists are extremely deliberate in targeting children.
The agenda to de-gender society is being aggressively pursued by those in the education sector and at a political level.”
Pre-schoolers targeted by radical gender activism
Politicised trans groups put children at risk, says expert
Counsellors and other mental health providers fear being labelled transphobic
“They reported inadequate assessments, patients pushed through for early medical interventions and an inability to stand up to pressure from trans lobbies,” Evans said.
Dr Kirsty Entwistle, who warned that “traumatic early experiences”, which might be a factor in a young person’s desire to transition, were not being investigated by medical staff out of fear of being labelled transphobic.
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex
A woman who detransitioned in 2018 says there are many people who have had gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't.
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

You dont seem to understand the difference between having the right to say/belive something and being a bigot.

 

[stevevw]

You dont seem to understand the difference between having the right to say/belive something and being a bigot.

Hello VirOptimus, good to here from you again. Yes thats your catch phrase, whenever you disagree with someone you claim they dont understand. So is expressing a belief being a bigot.

 

[VirOptimus]

Hello VirOptimus, good to here from you again. Yes thats your catch phrase, whenever you disagree with someone you claim they dont understand. So is expressing a belief being a bigot.

It sure can be yes.

 

[stevevw]

It sure can be yes.

So if some just expresses a belief that they disgree with same sex marriage is that bigoted. Or what about if someone says there are only 2 biological sexes, male and female. Just as a statemnet when discussing the topic.

 

[VirOptimus]

So if some just expresses a belief that they disgree with same sex marriage is that bigoted. Or what about if someone says there are only 2 biological sexes, male and female. Just as a statemnet when discussing the topic.

Yes that would be bigoted (and against observed reality).

 

[stevevw]

Yes that would be bigoted (and against observed reality).

You must live on another planet. As far as I know just expressing an opinion or view on these topics is a right under free speech and religious freedom. IE

The UN Human rights seems to disagree with you

EHRC guidelines make clear that people are free to express personal views on marriage in public and in the workplace,
It is not illegal to speak out against same sex marriage (any more than it's illegal to condemn the ban on fox-hunting, or the provisions of the finance bill of 2014).
Christians have a right to oppose gay marriage, but not to act against it | David Edgar

Article 19 of UN Human Rights
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

So does the US constitution.
In the United States, freedom of speech and expression is strongly protected from government restrictions by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution
Freedom of speech, also called free speech, means the free and public expression of opinions without censorship, interference and restraint by the government.
Freedom of speech in the United States - Wikipedia

The First Amendment to our Constitution protects the free exercise of religion and the freedom of speech.
Women’s Sports Are Facing a Crisis. These Brave Athletes Are Standing Firm.

People have been debating and expressing their views on these topics for a long time, on social media, YouTube, and even on this forum and it is totally legal to do so.

 

[Speedwell]

It is one thing to oppose gay marriage; it's quite another to make false and malicious public statements about it as a part of that opposition.

 

[VirOptimus]

You must live on another planet. As far as I know just expressing an opinion or view on these topics is a right under free speech and religious freedom. IE

The UN Human rights seems to disagree with you

EHRC guidelines make clear that people are free to express personal views on marriage in public and in the workplace,
It is not illegal to speak out against same sex marriage (any more than it's illegal to condemn the ban on fox-hunting, or the provisions of the finance bill of 2014).
Christians have a right to oppose gay marriage, but not to act against it | David Edgar

Article 19 of UN Human Rights
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

So does the US constitution.
In the United States, freedom of speech and expression is strongly protected from government restrictions by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution
Freedom of speech, also called free speech, means the free and public expression of opinions without censorship, interference and restraint by the government.
Freedom of speech in the United States - Wikipedia

The First Amendment to our Constitution protects the free exercise of religion and the freedom of speech.
Women’s Sports Are Facing a Crisis. These Brave Athletes Are Standing Firm.

People have been debating and expressing their views on these topics for a long time, on social media, YouTube, and even on this forum and it is totally legal to do so.

Its legal to be a bigot.

See above on what you dont understand.

 

[SilverBear]

I realize this but it is the government that will facilitate that vote. The government can decide make something legal without the vote if they think the issue is a clear matter of peoples rights.

Initiatives and referendums in the United States

If the situation is as you said that anyone voting no is actually voting rights away then as I said earlier it logically follows that the government allowing a vote is aiding and helping to deny peoples rights. Why didnt the government alos agree with your view and refuse to have a vote and just legalise same sex marriages.

see the link above. and BTW the government did agree and the courts struck down the legislation as unconsitutional.

This reminds me of the Isreal Folau situation. Some people are more fundemental in their beliefs and though I disagree with the way they go about expressing those beliefs it is still within the realm of belief. Court is merely repeating what the Bible states.

the bible never tells the lie: "homosexuals are after our young ones, that’s what they are after”

As for her above quote I agree this is more extreme that what most Christian believe. But that cannot be used to dismiss her right to express her beliefs in other ways which seems to be what you are trying to do.

Court is perfectly free to express any hateful or bigoted view she has. However she isn't free from the consequences of what she chooses to say.

But then what do you think about those who take a similar position to Margaret Court but are non-religious.

i don't know of any non-religious person who is saying Satan is infiltrating the schools. if you know of such people please quote them.

There are many polititioans, wlefare advocates and health professionals who say that gender/transgender ideology is being pushed on society and that young children are being targeted especially in schools and child care. That health professionsals and even parents cannot question or challenge any child that is being pushed into transitioning because they will be called transphobic. That trans activists are pushing this ideology and hiding the truth that it can harm young people and that this approach amounts to child abuse.

please educate yourself on the actual laws and process of transitioning, all you are doing here is repeating propaganda

Considering the majoirty who experience transgender tendencies have other mental health issues that may also contribute and grow out of it this sets up a situation where many young people are denied proper treatment and may be caused unnescessary suffering and harm that cannot be undone. That amounts to child abuse. We could see many suing the government in the future and another child abuse scandel.

its a pretty well established fact that mental health issues among LGBT individuals is the result of how they are viewed and treated. Something you might want to consider.

I’m a Pediatrician. How Transgender Ideology Has Infiltrated My Field and Produced Large-Scale Child Abuse.

Michelle Cretella is the president of the American College of Pediatricians, a recognized hate group with less than 150 members.


She is also the author of the fake study I've cited before.

Her "study used adults who had been treated with puberty blockers. She claimed that most
She also made misleading and false claims about hormone treatments for transgender children will eventually “embrace” their “biological sex” as long as they are forced to reject their trans identity. however most of the individuals in her study were being treated for early onset puberty and were never transgender.

 

[Nine of Spades]

Yes that would be bigoted (and against observed reality).

You claim that it is bigoted and against observed reality to notice that only two genders exist: male and female. I wonder what sort of reality you’re observing, because I certainly haven’t seen three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, or ten different genders. Why are you so intolerant of the idea that only male and female exist?

 

[Kylie]

There's no science that says that anything is 'right' or 'wrong', because that's not science's job.

True. But you know what I mean.

 

[Kylie]

'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex
A woman who detransitioned in 2018 says there are many people who have had gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't.
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

I'm not going to respond to everything you posted, but this one in particular struck me because I responded to this exact same example in November 2019, and I haven't seen anything that warrants a change in my position. For the record, my original response to this (a different article, but the same individual making the same claims) can be found HERE.

Here's my original reply...

"And yet this person cites no actual numbers. They don't say "I've seen this many people regret it out of that many people who had the surgery." So that's suspect right there.

Also, I find it interesting that they say that they see mostly in their 20s, and often autistic, and yet she has seen 30 people from Newcastle, a city that has about 310,000 people. I mean, in a city of that size, autistic trans people in their 20s is a pretty narrow demographic. I'm surprised there are that many. I mean, according to the data on THIS page, about 14% of the entire Newcastle population is in their 20s. With a population of about 310,000, that means there are about 44,000 people in their twenties in Newcastle. Now, exact figures of the percentage of people in Newcastle who are trans is difficult to come by, since the government has not included this information as part of their census program, but we can make an educated guess. The population of the entire UK is about 66.5 million. And the estimates for the number of trans people in the UK is estimated between 200,000 and 500,000. Even assuming a high figure of 500,000 trans people in the UK, that's less than 1% of the population. So, let's say that 1% of the population is trans (which fits in fairly well with other studies - for instance a study in the US suggests that about 0.6% of the population is trans). So we can figure that out of the 44,000 people in their twenties in Newcastle, 1% of them are trans. That makes roughly 440 trans people in newcastle. Now, when it comes to how many people are on the autism spectrum, studies have shown that about 1.1% of people in the UK are autistic. If we apply that to the trans people in their 20s in Newcastle, that comes out to about 4 or 5 people who would be Newcastle residents in their twenties who are both autistic and trans. And yet Charlie Evans, according to the article, has found about 30 trans people in their twenties in Newcastle, and most of them are autistic. How can this be? Is Newcastle a magnet for trans, autistic people in their twenties? And Ms Evans has said that many of these people have had full gender reassignment surgeries. That also strikes me as odd, since trans people in England often face waits for treatment that have been described as "soul destroying." And yet, in Newcastle, there appears to be a concentration of autistic trans folks in their twenties almost ten times higher than average who have been able to get access to treatment much more easily than in the rest of the country!

Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me."
​

There's nothing I've read that indicates to me that my conclusion here needs to be changed.

 

[stevevw]

Its legal to be a bigot.

See above on what you dont understand.

Then with that logic the government has sanctioned bigotry by holding a vote which allows people to disagree with same sex marriage and express their views.

Second who said it is bigotry, is that a personal opinion. Where is the objective evidence it is bigotry.

Third in relation to biological sex (there are only two sexes) since when is scientific facts bigotry.

You will also notice that the first reference I linked says that people have the right to disagree just like they do with fox hunting. They dont equate disagreement as bigotry as you do.

 

[stevevw]

You claim that it is bigoted and against observed reality to notice that only two genders exist: male and female. I wonder what sort of reality you’re observing, because I certainly haven’t seen three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, or ten different genders. Why are you so intolerant of the idea that only male and female exist?

Because I said lol.