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mlepfitjw

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Ok. Sin doesn't exist really in my book though because Jesus Christ paid for all sins. People are just babes in Christ Jesus, and need to be fed the word. Sin does exist but it is only in three forms truly (No faith, No Love, and Unbelieving).

Babes just need fed the word, so that is my perspective in all honesty.

Cause I remember cheating on one of my girlfriends a long time ago, also was really bad about manipulating people.

See these are all self interest of the flesh, and the only way to overcome is being fed the word...

Being built up in faith in trusting God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also a person has to make a choice whether or not they have the desire to keep living that lifestyle, and some may.
 
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Ok. Sin doesn't exist really in my book though because Jesus Christ paid for all sins. People are just babes in Christ Jesus, and need to be fed the word. Sin does exist but it is only in three forms truly (No faith, No Love, and Unbelieving).

Babes just need fed the word, so that is my perspective in all honesty.

Cause I remember cheating on one of my girlfriends a long time ago, also was really bad about manipulating people.

See these are all self interest of the flesh, and the only way to overcome is being fed the word...

Being built up in faith in trusting God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 3:16 is about having eternal life for those who BELIEVE, not everyone. God gave his Son for all, but it is only those who BELIEVE who have eternal life. We STILL sin even as believers. Paul talks about this in Romans 7.
 
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mlepfitjw

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John 3:16 is about having eternal life for those who BELIEVE, not everyone. God gave his Son for all, but it is only those who BELIEVE who have eternal life. We STILL sin even as believers. Paul talks about this in Romans 7.

Counterphobia, I agree with what you are saying. There people who are not believers, they are dead in their sins. There are people who are believers, who are still fleshly and babes in Christ (judgemental Christians, prideful in their walk) but are saved just not full grown yet.


Then there are sons and daughters pf God who still mess up from time to time, but they are changed even further from the judgemental, prideful, stage of living. Along with overcoming many other lifestyle choices found in Galatians chapter 5.


19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



We do still sin, sometimes we are not loving towards God, or loving towards people. Though sins has been paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ we are forgiven when we fail, but we go to God and ask for strength to keep walking in faith (and spirit) and to not be discouraged.

Would you not agree?

The flesh and the spirit is the battle that people have to fight against because these forces are constantly battling each other so that we are not able to carry out our good intentions.
 
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Counterphobia, I agree with what you are saying. There people who are not believers, they are dead in their sins. There are people who are believers, who are still fleshly and babes in Christ (judgemental Christians, prideful in their walk) but are saved just not full grown yet.


Then there are sons and daughters pf God who still mess up from time to time, but they are changed even further from the judgemental, prideful, stage of living. Along with overcoming many other lifestyle choices found in Galatians chapter 5.


19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



We do still sin, sometimes we are not loving towards God, or loving towards people. Though sins has been paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ we are forgiven when we fail, but we go to God and ask for strength to keep walking in faith (and spirit) and to not be discouraged.

Would you not agree?

The flesh and the spirit is the battle that people have to fight against because these forces are constantly battling each other so that we are not able to carry out our good intentions.

Yes, I agree with all of this.

Perhaps this can be a further agreement. It is a video that recently came out. The point (if you don't watch the video) is that we have come from death to life, blindness to light when we get saved. These other things you mention are the process of sanctification, but I think sanctification is implicit with being saved.

 
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mlepfitjw

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Hey my friend truecounterphobia, glad we could discuss this together. Praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ for the Glory of the Father, amen. God is truly good!

This video is very good, like the way he is going verse by verse.
 
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Beanieboy

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Hello you, welcome.

Please will you read thoroughly before responding.

Thank you.

Judgement Day, (Every day?)

You have seen this scripture :

1.Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Jesus Christ is speaking about judgement here, towards other people.

You might not believe this but some people believe that what is being said doesn't mean what it means at all.

Every day, you can make judgement calls: Shall I go to work early, Should I brush my teeth before bed, Should I message this person, Should I get gas here or there, Should I cook at home or grab something from the fast food joint?

Of course we make judgement calls every day.

Now would you consider this what Jesus Christ is speaking about judging whether or not you should go out to eat a burger, or message a friend? Absolutely not.

What Jesus Christ is speaking about here is judging other people and condemning: No matter who they are. You profess you are a believer in God, yet you judge someone else based on whatever merit you decide does not match up to your standard?

Do you tell someone you go to church, then bad mouth John the next door neighbor because his tree has branches hanging over on your side of the fence?

Do you gossip bad things about others because they do not do things you do?

(Im guilty assuredly of judging other people, even being a prideful type of Christian especially when my first coming to Christ as a babe.)

This scripture of what Jesus Christ is saying is saying... hey anything you say about someone that is not out of love, will come back around to you. If you go around telling people you are a christian, yet someone hears you bad mouthing someone or down playing another person, you are going to be judged by the same measurement of your own judgement, unless they are a mature Christian and they understand an no better.

Because Jesus Christ mentions after the measurement that will come back around.

Why do you judge the way someone is acting a certain way, yet you do the same thing?

Why do you not get the spec out of your own eye to see clearly so you do not cause your brother to stumble?

If you both are blind by the spec in your eye, how can either one of you help each other?

I agree - whatChrist is saying is, Do not judge, for if you do, you will also be judged just as you judged another.

He then goes on to say, "Why do you focus on the speck of your bother when you have a beam in your own. I lost count in the number of Christians that believe Christ is saying "Don't condemn another for, say, drunkenness, if you get drunk yourself - don't be a hypocrite.

Jesus is talking about a piece of sawdust in one person's eye, and a tree branch in the eye of the accuser. The accuser is in much more need of an ER than the person he judges.

Not. The. Same.

Jesus called out the Pharisees for knowing petty things, like how much of their herbs to tithe, but neglected mercy, grace, love and forgiveness. Think about the irony - the taught the scripture, were thought of as holy men, claimed to worship God and follow the commandments, but when Christ appears, they accuse Christ himself of whom he associates with, sinning for healing on the sabbath, and plot to kill him. That's a Sequoia.

Only after you remove that beam, admit your grave error that works against God than helps (would you want a person with a branch sticking out of his eye to get close enough to help you? Is that even possible?

But once that 2x4 is out, you can help your brother remove the speck.

So, this is how I understand it: Don't spend your time judging others, or I will judge you. Stop pouring all your energy into trying to control the lives of others, and instead, spend time alone in self reflection, asking to be shown where you are stumbling. Then, seeing the dust in your brother's eye, but remembering how large and serious your transgression was, you will remove the piece of dust the same way you would for a friend - humbly, because you want to help them an stop their discomfort. You do it out of love.

There are a number of youtube channels that boil it down to:
Jesus isn't saying not to judge, but how to judge. Then they quote the last part to justify being a self righteous person judging freely.

These kind of Christians drive me crazy.
 
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I agree - whatChrist is saying is, Do not judge, for if you do, you will also be judged just as you judged another.

He then goes on to say, "Why do you focus on the speck of your bother when you have a beam in your own. I lost count in the number of Christians that believe Christ is saying "Don't condemn another for, say, drunkenness, if you get drunk yourself - don't be a hypocrite.

Jesus is talking about a piece of sawdust in one person's eye, and a tree branch in the eye of the accuser. The accuser is in much more need of an ER than the person he judges.

Not. The. Same.

Jesus called out the Pharisees for knowing petty things, like how much of their herbs to tithe, but neglected mercy, grace, love and forgiveness. Think about the irony - the taught the scripture, were thought of as holy men, claimed to worship God and follow the commandments, but when Christ appears, they accuse Christ himself of whom he associates with, sinning for healing on the sabbath, and plot to kill him. That's a Sequoia.

Only after you remove that beam, admit your grave error that works against God than helps (would you want a person with a branch sticking out of his eye to get close enough to help you? Is that even possible?

But once that 2x4 is out, you can help your brother remove the speck.

So, this is how I understand it: Don't spend your time judging others, or I will judge you. Stop pouring all your energy into trying to control the lives of others, and instead, spend time alone in self reflection, asking to be shown where you are stumbling. Then, seeing the dust in your brother's eye, but remembering how large and serious your transgression was, you will remove the piece of dust the same way you would for a friend - humbly, because you want to help them an stop their discomfort. You do it out of love.

There are a number of youtube channels that boil it down to:
Jesus isn't saying not to judge, but how to judge. Then they quote the last part to justify being a self righteous person judging freely.

These kind of Christians drive me crazy.

I agree with you where you are correct. Love does not keep a record of right and wrong. But suppose... someone you know is about to have an abortion. What do you do? Is it really loving to not say anything and to just let them go through with it? Or would you kindly and lovingly try and get them to see that there is a life within them who will live a life if they simply go through with having the baby? What if it was your wife? What if your wife wanted to abort your child? You would most certainly say something right? So, in the case that there is going to be sin against someone, it is right to speak up about that wrong done. But all sin wrongs someone if not God Himself. I hear you. I don't like people who are constantly telling people they are wrong, or in sin, but when it is done in the right spirit, then it is a Good thing to warn people of sin, and not a bad thing.
 
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Beanieboy

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I agree with you where you are correct. Love does not keep a record of right and wrong. But suppose... someone you know is about to have an abortion. What do you do? Is it really loving to not say anything and to just let them go through with it? Or would you kindly and lovingly try and get them to see that there is a life within them who will live a life if they simply go through with having the baby? What if it was your wife? What if your wife wanted to abort your child? You would most certainly say something right? So, in the case that there is going to be sin against someone, it is right to speak up about that wrong done. But all sin wrongs someone if not God Himself. I hear you. I don't like people who are constantly telling people they are wrong, or in sin, but when it is done in the right spirit, then it is a Good thing to warn people of sin, and not a bad thing.
Explain to me how an abortion is a like a speck of dust in their eye.

These kind of examples don't work, because I doubt a christian I am friends with would casually go get an abortion. The issue of abortion is a very hot topic, but in my opinion, those who claim to want to save fetuses, which they call babies, has more about feeling superior, and judging the women as murderers. But they rarely care about the actual baby, sometjmes the single mom, the woman impregnated by a rapist, etc. They care about it in theory, then talk about how sinful unwed mothers are. Condemned both ways. And my wife??? That is a decision we talk about together.

Give me a different example.

To me: A plank in your eye is lacking love, humility, kindness, the fruit of the spirit.
A speck is a minor offense like smoking, that can lead to cancer.

A friend of mine was smoking while waiting for the bus. The light turned red. Passenger Side Karen rolled down the window and yells, "Smoking can kill you, you, know."
John immediately through dosn his cigarette, runs up to the car and says, "What???? No one ever told me that before! This is the first time I have heard it!!! Thank you! Thank you for saving my life!!!!"

Was she judging him? Was she using judgement with love? What was her motivation? Is what she said in any way helpful? Why did John respond the way he did?
 
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Explain to me how an abortion is a like a speck of dust in their eye.

These kind of examples don't work, because I doubt a christian I am friends with would casually go get an abortion. The issue of abortion is a very hot topic, but in my opinion, those who claim to want to save fetuses, which they call babies, has more about feeling superior, and judging the women as murderers. But they rarely care about the actual baby, sometjmes the single mom, the woman impregnated by a rapist, etc. They care about it in theory, then talk about how sinful unwed mothers are. Condemned both ways. And my wife??? That is a decision we talk about together.

Give me a different example.

To me: A plank in your eye is lacking love, humility, kindness, the fruit of the spirit.
A speck is a minor offense like smoking, that can lead to cancer.

A friend of mine was smoking while waiting for the bus. The light turned red. Passenger Side Karen rolled down the window and yells, "Smoking can kill you, you, know."
John immediately through dosn his cigarette, runs up to the car and says, "What???? No one ever told me that before! This is the first time I have heard it!!! Thank you! Thank you for saving my life!!!!"

Was she judging him? Was she using judgement with love? What was her motivation? Is what she said in any way helpful? Why did John respond the way he did?

If you are going to take this attitude with me perhaps we shouldn't be discussing anything. I didn't mean any harm by what I said. I used abortion as an example because I personally feel it isn't justified like 99% of the time. Perhaps you can answer when life in the womb starts, or we can just stop here.
 
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Beanieboy

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If you are going to take this attitude with me perhaps we shouldn't be discussing anything. I didn't mean any harm by what I said. I used abortion as an example because I personally feel it isn't justified like 99% of the time. Perhaps you can answer when life in the womb starts, or we can just stop here.

I wasn't being snarky. Abortion is a very complicated issue, and if that is the speck, the log in someone's eye is all the callous hatred of screaming at anyone entering the clinic, and thinking they are doing any good. The reason I didn't want to use abortion is it becomes more moral and emotional, and "when does life start" is an opinion, really.

The passage speaks of a person with a tree growing out of his eye judging the person with a speck. This issue got you very emotional, very defensive, and I was simply trying to state the obvious - that abortion is hardly a speck, nor want to derail a cool thread discussing the Judge Not passage.
 
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I wasn't being snarky. Abortion is a very complicated issue, and if that is the speck, the log in someone's eye is all the callous hatred of screaming at anyone entering the clinic, and thinking they are doing any good. The reason I didn't want to use abortion is it becomes more moral and emotional, and "when does life start" is an opinion, really.

The passage speaks of a person with a tree growing out of his eye judging the person with a speck. This issue got you very emotional, very defensive, and I was simply trying to state the obvious - that abortion is hardly a speck, nor want to derail a cool thread discussing the Judge Not passage.

I am actually quite calm.

I think if you look at the Christian literature on life in the womb it is clear it starts at conception as that is when the life begins to exist. When an egg receives a specific sperm, that is when the DNA is made for the child.

My point was not abortion itself, nor was my point about what is a spec and what is a log, but rather, when is it appropriate to say, in love, that someone is in sin.

So while I agree that hatred and the like are sins that generally show a callous heart, I wasn't arguing for hatred whatsoever. You're right that the attitude behind things is of utmost importance. But sometimes actions speak louder than words.

The question to ask here is, "is it loving to point out someone's sin" given you are not dealing with hatred, rashness, jealousy, anger or other things of the spirit of man and not the fruits of the Spirit.
 
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Beanieboy

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One of the "um, you got a..um...2x4 sticking out of your eye" is the knee jefk reaction of another Christian, when I say, "We are called to love our neighbor as ourselves" that the person responds quickly "Well, not without discernment. Is it loving if I see my brother in Christ with a drinking problem, and say nothing?"

Actual conversation. I say love, and immediately, she goes to picking out the sins of another, and that being how she understands Christ's command to love. I then ask, "Why did you go there first? Do you say to your friend, your children, your spouse, "I love you...just hate your sin..." Do you constant pick out the flaws and imperfections of friends, your husband, your children? Why do you (the woman I was talking about) assume that when I say love my neughbor, as Christ did, not "but not your sin" tagline, why do you think I would love their sin of, say, gossipping, being arrogant, being rude? When your significant other says, "I love you", do you assume he loves you sin?

When I get into these conversations, they don't make sense. Using a problem with alcohol, even people who aren't Christian do interventions. However, there are Christians who believe all drinking is wrong. I'm out on my porch with a beer. Church Lady tells me she is doing this in love, but drinking a beer is a sin. She quotes scripture to back it up.

So what would you do in yhis situation
 
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Beanieboy

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I am actually quite calm.

I think if you look at the Christian literature on life in the womb it is clear it starts at conception as that is when the life begins to exist. When an egg receives a specific sperm, that is when the DNA is made for the child.

My point was not abortion itself, nor was my point about what is a spec and what is a log, but rather, when is it appropriate to say, in love, that someone is in sin.

So while I agree that hatred and the like are sins that generally show a callous heart, I wasn't arguing for hatred whatsoever. You're right that the attitude behind things is of utmost importance. But sometimes actions speak louder than words.

The question to ask here is, "is it loving to point out someone's sin" given you are not dealing with hatred, rashness, jealousy, anger or other things of the spirit of man and not the fruits of the Spirit.

Btw, thank you for saying all this. I honestly don't know the answer is to abortion, but know it isn't a simple one.

I remember however a story we read when i was teaching. A couple wanted to have children, but after being unable to conceive, they turned to invitrio. Because taking eggs can be painful, the doctor takes 10 or so, then fertilizes them. The feetlized egg is put back in the womb, but she had a miscarriage twice. I the meantime, their marriage fell apart, the husband wanted nothing to do with his wife or raising a child with her.

The woman went to court, arging that the furtilized eggs were human beings, so they couldn't simply be disposed of, bc that would be murder. She won.

And while she was happy, because she and the judge declared the embryos human beings, and disposing of them would be murder, she would either have to have 7 more tries, and raise yhe babies alone atm, give them to someone else, freeze them indefinitely, or dispose of the other embryos and be charged with murder.

That is what i mean about complicated.
 
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One of the "um, you got a..um...2x4 sticking out of your eye" is the knee jefk reaction of another Christian, when I say, "We are called to love our neighbor as ourselves" that the person responds quickly "Well, not without discernment. Is it loving if I see my brother in Christ with a drinking problem, and say nothing?"

Actual conversation. I say love, and immediately, she goes to picking out the sins of another, and that being how she understands Christ's command to love. I then ask, "Why did you go there first? Do you say to your friend, your children, your spouse, "I love you...just hate your sin..." Do you constant pick out the flaws and imperfections of friends, your husband, your children? Why do you (the woman I was talking about) assume that when I say love my neughbor, as Christ did, not "but not your sin" tagline, why do you think I would love their sin of, say, gossipping, being arrogant, being rude? When your significant other says, "I love you", do you assume he loves you sin?

When I get into these conversations, they don't make sense. Using a problem with alcohol, even people who aren't Christian do interventions. However, there are Christians who believe all drinking is wrong. I'm out on my porch with a beer. Church Lady tells me she is doing this in love, but drinking a beer is a sin. She quotes scripture to back it up.

So what would you do in yhis situation

I'm not talking about the Gift of Discernment here, I'm talking about what the Bible says. It's NOT a sin to have a beer given you are of legal drinking age. The Bible has a much more nuanced view of alcohol than what this woman is purporting. I can give you resources on this if you want. We can even enjoy alcohol as it is one thing God has gifted to us. One thing is clear though with alcohol from a Biblical view is that drunkenness is simply wrong because it limits the ability for the Holy Spirit to work in you. So I don't really care if you have a beer or not. Just don't make a habit of it and don't get drunk.

You are right. There are a lot of things that are very ambiguous in terms of what is "right" and what is "wrong". That is why I think it's good to remember that we can never do a perfect act. And whatever "Good" we do is done through us by the Holy Spirit and not of our own will. In fact, God has to find the needle in the haystack just to find the Good things we do because we are so imperfect. Sin is the corruption of Good and sin is not necessarily a "thing-in-itself". Sin is "missing the mark" and we are constantly falling short of "perfection".

This doesn't mean there is not "worse" sins then others. Hitler was a worse human being than Mother Teresa. So I am not so much advocating pointing out sin just because you personally feel it is a sin, but rather, when someone is doing something that is in direct contrast to what the Bible lays out for us that is wrong, then because you want what is best for someone, you try and steer them back in the right direction toward God and away from this corruption of Good.

Make sense?
 
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Btw, thank you for saying all this. I honestly don't know the answer is to abortion, but know it isn't a simple one.

I remember however a story we read when i was teaching. A couple wanted to have children, but after being unable to conceive, they turned to invitrio. Because taking eggs can be painful, the doctor takes 10 or so, then fertilizes them. The feetlized egg is put back in the womb, but she had a miscarriage twice. I the meantime, their marriage fell apart, the husband wanted nothing to do with his wife or raising a child with her.

The woman went to court, arging that the furtilized eggs were human beings, so they couldn't simply be disposed of, bc that would be murder. She won.

And while she was happy, because she and the judge declared the embryos human beings, and disposing of them would be murder, she would either have to have 7 more tries, and raise yhe babies alone atm, give them to someone else, freeze them indefinitely, or dispose of the other embryos and be charged with murder.

That is what i mean about complicated.

The husband shouldn't have left his wife. The wife would have to decide what to do with the eggs regardless of if she was still married or not.
 
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Beanieboy

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The husband shouldn't have left his wife. The wife would have to decide what to do with the eggs regardless of if she was still married or not.

But that isn't the facts. I'm unclear why he wanted a divorce, but the factis, he left.

So, if you and your spouse ferilized 10 eggs, and there was a court decision that they were humans, and the first two were carried to term, would you now be obligated to have 8 more kids? If she was 35 for her first child, would she be expected to carry those children into her 40s, when it would jeapordize the health of mother and child? If the doctor accidentally knocks one of the fertilized eggs over, is he now guilty of murder?

Understand, I'm using hypotheticals but am not a woman, have never impregnated anyone, never feared my parents forcing me to leave the house as a teen when my parents find out, which is a familiar story.

What this is really triggering in me are the Christians with branches in their eyes who judge you without knowing you, make up things, demonize you. As someone who is gay and Christian, I have had way too many "you can't be Gay and Christian" conversations, had people use Paul Cameron's debunked facts to support their claim, use Leviticus, a book they never read. The person argues it is a choice, then negates themselves in saying they are attracted to both sexes, thus, lack of choice. I have had people put me in the same group as child molesters, murderer, and refuse to see how unfair that is. And the worst, back in my 20s, suddenly getting all "on fire for the lord" after baptism in the HS, the message I heard over and over was that God hated me, I was an abomination, and he wished I were dead, which led to a long period of depression that the God I served hated me, as well as, suicidal ideation, and a few attempts, because if God wanted me dead, I would help him out.

Sorry, people abusing the bible that way, but you are an enemy of God. So what was their motivation? Was it meant to help me in anyway? Was I being judged fairly? Why is the focus of so many Christians on abortion or glbt but rarely on forgiveness, how to actively love, the fruit of the Spirit, all the things Christ focused on?
 
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But that isn't the facts. I'm unclear why he wanted a divorce, but the factis, he left.

So, if you and your spouse ferilized 10 eggs, and there was a court decision that they were humans, and the first two were carried to term, would you now be obligated to have 8 more kids? If she was 35 for her first child, would she be expected to carry those children into her 40s, when it would jeapordize the health of mother and child? If the doctor accidentally knocks one of the fertilized eggs over, is he now guilty of murder?

Understand, I'm using hypotheticals but am not a woman, have never impregnated anyone, never feared my parents forcing me to leave the house as a teen when my parents find out, which is a familiar story.

What this is really triggering in me are the Christians with branches in their eyes who judge you without knowing you, make up things, demonize you. As someone who is gay and Christian, I have had way too many "you can't be Gay and Christian" conversations, had people use Paul Cameron's debunked facts to support their claim, use Leviticus, a book they never read. The person argues it is a choice, then negates themselves in saying they are attracted to both sexes, thus, lack of choice. I have had people put me in the same group as child molesters, murderer, and refuse to see how unfair that is. And the worst, back in my 20s, suddenly getting all "on fire for the lord" after baptism in the HS, the message I heard over and over was that God hated me, I was an abomination, and he wished I were dead, which led to a long period of depression that the God I served hated me, as well as, suicidal ideation, and a few attempts, because if God wanted me dead, I would help him out.

Sorry, people abusing the bible that way, but you are an enemy of God. So what was their motivation? Was it meant to help me in anyway? Was I being judged fairly? Why is the focus of so many Christians on abortion or glbt but rarely on forgiveness, how to actively love, the fruit of the Spirit, all the things Christ focused on?

I point out the husband shouldn't have divorced his wife and the wife would still be in the position of what to do with the eggs to illustrate how sin messes things up. It goes back to the idea I said that sin is anything that isn't "perfect". We mess up a lot in our lives. Sometimes we think we are not sinning when we actually are because we are not thinking and doing things that accords with the ideal God wants for humanity.

I think sometimes people criticize without seeing the person behind the sin. Still, some things are actually unbiblical and sometimes these things need to be called out. Not everyone points out the mistakes of others out of love. They have to examine their hearts for their own motivation. But it says in Proverbs 9:8 "Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you." This shows that even if someone correcting you has a bad motivation for doing so, you should receive correction nonetheless if you want to be wise.
 
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Beanieboy

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I point out the husband shouldn't have divorced his wife and the wife would still be in the position of what to do with the eggs to illustrate how sin messes things up. It goes back to the idea I said that sin is anything that isn't "perfect". We mess up a lot in our lives. Sometimes we think we are not sinning when we actually are because we are not thinking and doing things that accords with the ideal God wants for humanity.

I think sometimes people criticize without seeing the person behind the sin. Still, some things are actually unbiblical and sometimes these things need to be called out. Not everyone points out the mistakes of others out of love. They have to examine their hearts for their own motivation. But it says in Proverbs 9:8 "Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you." This shows that even if someone correcting you has a bad motivation for doing so, you should receive correction nonetheless if you want to be wise.

We are in agreement about them not divorcing, but even if the hadn't, but another couple had, the judge declared the fertilized eggs human, wouldn't they have to implant all 10 eggs, and possibly have 10 children?

Are the fertilized eggs "babies"? technically, no, they are in the embryo stage, and will not survive or grow outside of the uterus. But, if they aren't "human", then what are they up until a person who is prochoice considers the unborn a baby?

There is some religion that believes the soul enters the unborn at 21 days.

And while I may be pro-choice, I could probably never bring myself to abort. I believe it cruel to force the victim of rape to carry the child to term, and don't know if I believe the morning after pill is bad. So as you can see, I really don't have an easy answer - that it is right or wrong.

The problem I have with ProLife advocates are putting up billboards of a 6 month old, talking about a fetus at 6 weeks, instead of sn actual 6 week old fetus.

I also question the motivation of ProLifers, who only yell and scream at women going into a clinic, condemn them as murderers, but don't do anything to strengthen social programs for the pregnant women, or condemn unwed mothers.

But if I walked by clinic, and people were not saying things out of love, but out of hatred and self-righteousness, even though Christian, would they listen when I called them out?

I believe Fred Phelps was an answer to a prayer. He took off the candy coating, and had vulgar signs saying God Hates F#gs. He quoted Leviticus, and called for the death penalty for gays. He protested funerals of gay people. And for the first time, people claiming glbtq were an abomination saw how ugly the message was, saw how self-righteousness makes you the opposite of Christ. And until his death, believed he was right. There is nothing anyone can do to help such a person except the HS.

Would me constantly pointing out your sin, no matter how minor, be something you appreciated? If you hung out with a friend, who asked you not to chew with your mouth open, not to put your elbows on the table, not to talk with food in your mouth, not to eat before they had their food, too, for me, I would never eat with the person again, and wondering why they see imperfections, and nothing else?

But I believe the actual elephant on the room is the person who believes they need to tell me how being gay is a sin. It is an obsession in the church, and what is really meant by "it's loving to point out the sin of another. "

As I said before, one interaction with a poster was, "I love you, I just hate your sin."

I said, Thank you. I love you...and of course, hate your sin."

She said, "My sin?????!!!!"

Why did she say that?
 

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We are in agreement about them not divorcing, but even if the hadn't, but another couple had, the judge declared the fertilized eggs human, wouldn't they have to implant all 10 eggs, and possibly have 10 children?

Are the fertilized eggs "babies"? technically, no, they are in the embryo stage, and will not survive or grow outside of the uterus. But, if they aren't "human", then what are they up until a person who is prochoice considers the unborn a baby?

There is some religion that believes the soul enters the unborn at 21 days.

And while I may be pro-choice, I could probably never bring myself to abort. I believe it cruel to force the victim of rape to carry the child to term, and don't know if I believe the morning after pill is bad. So as you can see, I really don't have an easy answer - that it is right or wrong.

The problem I have with ProLife advocates are putting up billboards of a 6 month old, talking about a fetus at 6 weeks, instead of sn actual 6 week old fetus.

I also question the motivation of ProLifers, who only yell and scream at women going into a clinic, condemn them as murderers, but don't do anything to strengthen social programs for the pregnant women, or condemn unwed mothers.

But if I walked by clinic, and people were not saying things out of love, but out of hatred and self-righteousness, even though Christian, would they listen when I called them out?

I believe Fred Phelps was an answer to a prayer. He took off the candy coating, and had vulgar signs saying God Hates F#gs. He quoted Leviticus, and called for the death penalty for gays. He protested funerals of gay people. And for the first time, people claiming glbtq were an abomination saw how ugly the message was, saw how self-righteousness makes you the opposite of Christ. And until his death, believed he was right. There is nothing anyone can do to help such a person except the HS.

Would me constantly pointing out your sin, no matter how minor, be something you appreciated? If you hung out with a friend, who asked you not to chew with your mouth open, not to put your elbows on the table, not to talk with food in your mouth, not to eat before they had their food, too, for me, I would never eat with the person again, and wondering why they see imperfections, and nothing else?

But I believe the actual elephant on the room is the person who believes they need to tell me how being gay is a sin. It is an obsession in the church, and what is really meant by "it's loving to point out the sin of another. "

As I said before, one interaction with a poster was, "I love you, I just hate your sin."

I said, Thank you. I love you...and of course, hate your sin."

She said, "My sin?????!!!!"

Why did she say that?

Here is some thing perhaps you will consider.

Just because people abuse certain truths, doesn't change what is actually True. This seems to be something I think you are focussing on a bit. Let me say it this way... if Jonny steals a toy from Billy, but then Billy goes up to Jonny and smacks him in the head, was it wrong of Jonny to steal the toy from Billy? OR Jonny steals a toy from Billy and Sally goes and tattles on Jonny and then Jonny gets a timeout and Sally laughs at Jonny for getting a timeout, it doesn't mean it was okay for Jonny to steal from Billy. In other words, two wrongs do not make a right, but it doesn't change what is right either.

Make sense?
 
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Beanieboy

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That icon of me was an accident. But I had an afterthought.

When I took a writing class, my teacher said it was a good start, and was looking forward to when I finished. I thought I had finished, and was very hurt by that criticism. By the end, she would tell me it was great, and I would tell her it still needed something. She would arguethat she liked it, and I would argue, I can make it better.

In art classes, I didn't care if you like it or not, but wanted to know why, so I could grow as an artist. Be truthful, not "nice." Make the criticism constructive.

Having grown up around very religious parents and community, the message I heard most often was that we are sinners. God hates sin, so Jesus puts rose tinted glasses on the Father through his blood, so the Father sees our righteousness.

I remember hiding my first math test in 1st grade. My mom found it and I was scared about how angry she would be. She asked me why, and sobbing I said, I got 4 wrong." She said, "You got 96 right."

So, well into my 40s, God showed me something. He acknowledged my love for him, but my entire life, he had been holding out his arms with love for me. I was just convinced, I suppose that deep down i didn't deserve God's love, nor was it there, because I wasn't perfect,

So, "pointing out one's sin", especially when that is the focus, with phrases like "backsliding", focus on you as a sinner who got 4 wrong. We need to also focus on the fruit of the spirit someone displays, the 96 they get right.

And while I assume the woman offended, saying, "My sin?? What sin do I have?" wasn't sinless. But maybe she understood how unloving it sounds to say "i love you, but not your sin."
 
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