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Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church received $4.4M

RaymondG

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Net worth is the value of the assets a person or corporation owns, minus the liabilities they owe.

I don't advocate for people not have savings. But why should a Christian keep $100-300 million in assets when there are so many brothers and sisters of Christ in need around the world?

It's only a question, I judge no one.
There are many hindrances to giving large amounts away to different entities. To become aware of them, one must desire to become a millionaire so that you can give millions.

If you continue to preach that you should never be worth millions, then you will never have people who can give a lot....... thankfully, there are still some who desire to give a lot.
 
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RaymondG

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You do realize that most of the major figures in the Old Testament were very wealthy don't you? Abraham, Job, Issac, Jacob, David, Solomon etc. were all incredibly wealthy and faithful, if flawed, servants of God. There is nothing Godly about poverty just as there is nothing Godly about wealth. The problem that some with wealth face is that they trust in their riches more than God. The sin in that case doesn't lie in their wealth, there's nothing sinful about being rich. The sin lies in their heart.
I dont understand why so many do not get this. You shouldnt look down on the rich because we desire to be poor......and we shouldnt look down on the poor because we desire to be rich.

Let every man receive the desires of their own heart and not covet thy neighbor's possession.
 
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bèlla

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God is good. I'm happy for them.

It isn't often I see a comment like yours. God bless you. :)

Ministering to the wealthy is challenging for these reasons. Including those who are interested in the Lord. The backlash is great. But God hasn't forgotten His sheep. They come from all spheres. Including the moneyed.

Yours in His Service,

~bella
 
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Rene Loup

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These scammers prey on the vulnerable.

Trump's spiritual advisor asked people to NOT pay their mortgage and electricity bill and to send her the money instead. This is during a pandemic. Copeland did the same.

Didn't Jesus say something about a camel going through the eye of a needle is more likely than a rich man going to heaven?

Not just that...

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
(2 Peter 2:1-3)

3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
(1 Timothy 6:3-10)

1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

(2 Timothy 4:1-8)

1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.


6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

(2 Timothy 3:1-9)
 
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GraceBro

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coronawatching

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The government should not be bailing out scam operations like Televangelists. Don't compare them to Oprah who made it without scamming anyone, she made it because of her exceptional ability to connect with people. She broke all the rules that said you need to be white, and pretty and thin to be a woman in visual broadcasting.

Trump's incompetence is why Covid is now killing over 3000 per day and there is no end in sight.

Oprah was assisted by the Antichrist spirit though.
 
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Dan1988

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True believers do fall away. Jesus said this in John 15:6.
No, that's not true and John 15:6 is irrelevant here. The question is "can true believers fall away" answer - impossible. There are no scriptures to support such a notion but there are hundreds to support eternal security for true believers.
How can you get around scriptures such as 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
This clearly shows that there are those who profess to be Christian, but they are false professors and they never were Christians to begin with.
You can either accept God's Word or reject it, the choice is yours.
 
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Dan1988

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The stats I gave was for America. In 1990, 85% of Americans identified as Christian. in 2015 it was 75% and five years later, it's 65%.

Traditionally solid Christian countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand have become more secular. There are still many who follow Christian traditions in a cultural sense but they are anything but Christian in the way they live.

Christianity is also diminishing in Western Europe. It's growing in third world countries though. The Philippines is very Catholic.
It seems to be a common trend, for nations to turn away from God after He gets them out of trouble. Israel turned away from God after He liberated them from bondage in Egypt and Babylon. America and Europe are no different, God blessed them and they thank Him by turning to idols.

Most healthy and wealthy people don't want anything to do with God, they're quite happy to live their lives as they see fit.
 
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bèlla

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This is the primary reason I believe in self-funded ministry for people outside the pulpit. There’s too much drama and speculation. I would never take a penny. The freedom that comes with paying your own way is priceless and headache free.

Yours in His Service,

~bella
 
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loveofourlord

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Absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is what the loans were for. I'm glad that program could be used to help their ministry.

Yeah, how Christian, helping the millionaire, while how many people bankrupted because millionaires like him got money instead of them?
 
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Busryde

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Not just that...

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
(2 Peter 2:1-3)

3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
(1 Timothy 6:3-10)

1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

(2 Timothy 4:1-8)

1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.


6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

(2 Timothy 3:1-9)
FWIW, I saw my first two concerts at his church in the '80s. Rush, ZZ Top.
Fun times!
 
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BNR32FAN

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No, that's not true and John 15:6 is irrelevant here. The question is "can true believers fall away" answer - impossible. There are no scriptures to support such a notion but there are hundreds to support eternal security for true believers.
How can you get around scriptures such as 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
This clearly shows that there are those who profess to be Christian, but they are false professors and they never were Christians to begin with.
You can either accept God's Word or reject it, the choice is yours.

Who is “they” in 1 John 2:19? “They” are a specific group of people John is talking about. John 15:6 is referring to anybody who is in Christ. False professors cannot be in Christ. But there are a ton of implications in John 15:1-10. First of all in verse 4 Jesus says abide/remain in Me. He wouldn’t tell them to remain in Him if they were incapable of failing to remain in Him. Another indication is verse 7 where He says “IF you abide/remain in Me” which indicates that there’s no guarantee that a person who is in Christ will remain in Him. People can fall from grace and be severed from Christ. In verse 2 Jesus says that The Father cuts off every branch in Him that doesn’t bear fruit. You’ll see a similar message in Luke 13:6-9. Notice in this message even tho Jesus gives special attention to the tree by fertilizing it the outcome of the tree is still uncertain.
 
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Dan1988

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Who is “they” in 1 John 2:19? “They” are a specific group of people John is talking about. John 15:6 is referring to anybody who is in Christ. False professors cannot be in Christ. But there are a ton of implications in John 15:1-10. First of all in verse 4 Jesus says abide/remain in Me. He wouldn’t tell them to remain in Him if they were incapable of failing to remain in Him. Another indication is verse 7 where He says “IF you abide/remain in Me” which indicates that there’s no guarantee that a person who is in Christ will remain in Him. People can fall from grace and be severed from Christ. In verse 2 Jesus says that The Father cuts off every branch in Him that doesn’t bear fruit. You’ll see a similar message in Luke 13:6-9. Notice in this message even tho Jesus gives special attention to the tree by fertilizing it the outcome of the tree is still uncertain.
None of the above are commands, so we can't interpret them as such. Jesus was not commanding anyone to obey what He was saying, as a prerequisite to be saved. All of it was given as an observation of something which is currently taking place. So when He said "if you abide" then He points to the outcome of that action, likewise He speaks of those who join themselves to the tree but they are not of the tree so they are removed.
A branch cannot abide-survive or remain, of it's own volition. It was entirely dependant on the tree for it's very existence and it remains entirely dependant on the tree for it's continued survival.

To suggest that man has any input into his salvation is to deny God's sovereignty. It also means you must trample over and deny around 120 verses of scripture which state that salvation is of God from start to finish. The only thing man contributes to his salvation is a stinking corpse and a bunch of filthy rags, so he has nothing to boast about and everything to be ashamed of.
 
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BNR32FAN

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None of the above are commands, so we can't interpret them as such. Jesus was not commanding anyone to obey what He was saying, as a prerequisite to be saved. All of it was given as an observation of something which is currently taking place. So when He said "if you abide" then He points to the outcome of that action, likewise He speaks of those who join themselves to the tree but they are not of the tree so they are removed.
A branch cannot abide-survive or remain, of it's own volition. It was entirely dependant on the tree for it's very existence and it remains entirely dependant on the tree for it's continued survival.

To suggest that man has any input into his salvation is to deny God's sovereignty. It also means you must trample over and deny around 120 verses of scripture which state that salvation is of God from start to finish. The only thing man contributes to his salvation is a stinking corpse and a bunch of filthy rags, so he has nothing to boast about and everything to be ashamed of.

So when Jesus said in verse 4 “abide in Me” that wasn’t a commandment? In verse 7 when He says “IF YOU abide in Me” who is “YOU” in that message? Who is He referring to?
 
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BNR32FAN

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None of the above are commands, so we can't interpret them as such. Jesus was not commanding anyone to obey what He was saying, as a prerequisite to be saved. All of it was given as an observation of something which is currently taking place. So when He said "if you abide" then He points to the outcome of that action, likewise He speaks of those who join themselves to the tree but they are not of the tree so they are removed.
A branch cannot abide-survive or remain, of it's own volition. It was entirely dependant on the tree for it's very existence and it remains entirely dependant on the tree for it's continued survival.

To suggest that man has any input into his salvation is to deny God's sovereignty. It also means you must trample over and deny around 120 verses of scripture which state that salvation is of God from start to finish. The only thing man contributes to his salvation is a stinking corpse and a bunch of filthy rags, so he has nothing to boast about and everything to be ashamed of.

No, conditional salvation doesn’t contradict any verses. If you’d like to quote some id be happy to explain them.
 
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BNR32FAN

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None of the above are commands, so we can't interpret them as such. Jesus was not commanding anyone to obey what He was saying, as a prerequisite to be saved. All of it was given as an observation of something which is currently taking place. So when He said "if you abide" then He points to the outcome of that action, likewise He speaks of those who join themselves to the tree but they are not of the tree so they are removed.
A branch cannot abide-survive or remain, of it's own volition. It was entirely dependant on the tree for it's very existence and it remains entirely dependant on the tree for it's continued survival.

To suggest that man has any input into his salvation is to deny God's sovereignty. It also means you must trample over and deny around 120 verses of scripture which state that salvation is of God from start to finish. The only thing man contributes to his salvation is a stinking corpse and a bunch of filthy rags, so he has nothing to boast about and everything to be ashamed of.

Conditional salvation doesn’t impede on God’s sovereignty at all if God has deemed that man must choose of His own free will to respond to His calling and to walk in the Spirit.
 
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BNR32FAN

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None of the above are commands, so we can't interpret them as such. Jesus was not commanding anyone to obey what He was saying, as a prerequisite to be saved. All of it was given as an observation of something which is currently taking place. So when He said "if you abide" then He points to the outcome of that action, likewise He speaks of those who join themselves to the tree but they are not of the tree so they are removed.
A branch cannot abide-survive or remain, of it's own volition. It was entirely dependant on the tree for it's very existence and it remains entirely dependant on the tree for it's continued survival.

To suggest that man has any input into his salvation is to deny God's sovereignty. It also means you must trample over and deny around 120 verses of scripture which state that salvation is of God from start to finish. The only thing man contributes to his salvation is a stinking corpse and a bunch of filthy rags, so he has nothing to boast about and everything to be ashamed of.

You didn’t address John 15:2 and Luke 13:6-9. The Father cuts off every branch IN ME that doesn’t bear fruit. Jesus didn’t say that every branch in Him will bear fruit. He said every branch that remains in Him will bear fruit. God allows us to be joined to Christ but after a while if we don’t bear fruit we will be cut off. This same scenario is explained in Luke 13:6-9 where Jesus fertilizes the tree and even in doing so it is not certain whether or not the tree will bear fruit or if it will be chopped down. How do you interpret this?
 
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Arc F1

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How is Joel using his money to help others? How much does he give to charity and to spread God’s word?

I have no idea but I guarantee you it's not enough. I've listened to him a few times and he doesn't follow the word of God.
 
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