Is "socialism" a scare word in America?

[ananda]

We have elected policy makers who make that decision. If we don't like the policy they make we can elect others. What it boils down to is, "Hey, guys, we don't have jobs for everybody so those of you who are working need to give a little to those who can't."

Why should it boil down to "jobs" or "working" as the criteria? Surely mental suffering is more fundamental. Those who experience great mental suffering, even though they might have a job or work, should be entitled to more charity than those with less mental suffering, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Speedwell]

They shouldn't be addressed by government because of the fact that sufferings are endless, and resources are limited. To select a few select sufferings to support is to disparage the other sufferings of others.

Yes, as I pointed out we can select those sufferings which are the greatest benefit to ourselves to alleviate.

 

[ananda]

Yes, as I pointed out we can select those sufferings which are the greatest benefit to ourselves to alleviate.

Who defines "Benefit to ourselves"? What "benefit" and to which "ourselves"?

 

[Speedwell]

Why should it boil down to "jobs" or "working" as the criteria? Surely mental suffering is more fundamental. Those who experience great mental suffering, even though they might have a job or work, should be entitled to more charity than those with less mental suffering, wouldn't you agree?

Because it seems to be your criteria. You are complaining about taxing those who work to give financial support to those who don't.

 

[ananda]

Because it seems to be your criteria. You are complaining about taxing those who work to give financial support to those who don't.

It was just one example of unlimited types of suffering, in spite of limited resources.

 

[Speedwell]

Who defines "Benefit to ourselves"? What "benefit" and to which "ourselves"?

We do. As a community we make those determinations. But it doesn't take much sense to see that a lot of idle poor people hanging around with no effective access to food, housing, medical care or education are going to be a nuisance rather than a benefit.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Socialism is a dead end. The Shakers were Socialists, how are they doing these days?

 

[ananda]

We do. As a community we make those determinations. But it doesn't take much sense to see that a lot of idle poor people hanging around with no effective access to food, housing, medical care or education are going to be a nuisance rather than a benefit.

What about all the other sufferings that you don't include on your list? The sufferings of those with a house, and trying to make a payment on their mortgage. The sufferings of those who don't own a house but want to, and are stymied by the high prices as a result of government giving socialized relief to homeowners. The sufferings of those with medical care, but can't afford deductibles. The sufferings of those making minimum wage. The sufferings of those making a higher wage but are now faced with inflation as a result of increasing the minimum wage to their level. Etc.

Like I've said repeatedly in this thread, I'm not denying your list of sufferings. I'm just pointing out that government cannot address them all, to the satisfaction of all sides, so it shouldn't be playing favorites to benefit someone's favored short list.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Socialism is a dead end. The Shakers were Socialists, how are they doing these days?

Surprisingly still existent. There is only three of them left though but considering they prohibit sex in all forms, the fact this group has survived over 250 years is quite impressive.

 

[Speedwell]

...someone's favored short list.

That "someone" is us.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It should voluntarily supported by all those who agree to the burden of that justice. Anyone who disagrees should be allowed to leave its jurisdiction and protection.

What if I don't want to leave? (Supposing I've committed no acts against justice.) Will you force me to leave? If you do, what about my land and buildings? Will you compensate me for my lost property or will your community confiscate them?

 

[ananda]

That "someone" is us.

How do you address the flip side, the discompassionate aspect?

 

[ananda]

What if I don't want to leave? (Supposing I've committed no acts against justice.) Will you force me to leave? If you do, what about my land and buildings? Will you compensate me for my lost property or will your community confiscate them?

If no acts against justice is involved, then imo government should never intervene.

 

[Speedwell]

How do you address the flip side, the discompassionate aspect?

You mean using the hard-earned tax dollars of someone like you to give to those whose lifestyle choices you disapprove of?

 

[Hans Blaster]

If no acts against justice is involved, then imo government should never intervene.

So I can stay and refuse to pay for the costs of justice? Cool!

[Have you solved the free-loader problem in your libertarian utopia yet?]

 

[ananda]

You mean using the hard-earned tax dollars of someone like you to give to those whose lifestyle choices you disapprove of?

No, I mean adding to my suffering by taking my money, or depriving suffering others of that money (those not included in the selected programs).

 

[ananda]

So I can stay and refuse to pay for the costs of justice? Cool!

[Have you solved the free-loader problem in your libertarian utopia yet?]

That should be taken care of socially, e.g. by shunning, etc.

 

[Speedwell]

No, I mean adding to my suffering by taking my money, or depriving suffering others of that money (those not included in the selected programs).

In other words, yes.

 

[ananda]

In other words, yes.

Actually, no. It's not about disapproving of certain lifestyle choices for me.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That should be taken care of socially, e.g. by shunning, etc.

So how's that going to work? Will the guys at the local restaurants refuse to serve me? What about the grocery store? I don't work in my community, so why would my workplace care about my non-contribution to costs of justice where I live? Will the Wal-Mart greeter tell me to leave and not buy stuff? Will local children pelt my car with rotten veggies when I drive by?