Why do Many Christians Ignore YHWH's Moedim?

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Der Alte

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Thanks for posting the picture. It supports my argument. You have obviously done very little research on this subject.
Here are a few more sources for you:
Dr. Bullinger, in the Companion Bible, appx. 162, states,
"crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian Sun-god (Tammuz)... It should be stated that Constantine was a Sun-god worshipper ... The evidence is thus complete, that Yahusha was put to death upon an upright stake, and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."

Rev. Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, pp. 197-205,
frankly calls the cross "this Pagan symbol ... the Tau, the sign of the cross, the indisputable sign of Tammuz, the false Messiah ... the mystic Tau of the Cladeans (Babylonians) and Egyptians - the true original form of the letter T the initial of the name of Tammuz ... the Babylonian cross was the recognized emblem of Tammuz."
In the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, vol. 14, p. 273,
"In the Egyption churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the pagan-Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner." Jacob Grimm, in his Deutsche Mythologie, says that the Teutonic (Germanic) tribes had their idol Thor, symbolized by a hammer, while the Roman Pagans had their crux (cross). It was thus somewhat easier for the Teutons to accept the Roman Cross.
Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xiv, pp. 370-1
The smooth generalisation, which so many historians are content to repeat, that Constantine "embraced the Christian religion" and subsequently granted "official toleration", is "contrary to historical fact" and should be erased from our literature forever (Catholic Encyclopedia, Pecci ed., vol. iii, p. 299, passim).
I don't want to take this thread down a bunny hole on this point. I could go on posting evidence all day long. If you would like to discuss this further; I'll accept your invitation to a thread on the subject. This subject is least of my concerns.
You are the one who has not done the research. You keep demonstrating all you do is search for anything that seems to support your assumptions/presuppositions. Were any of the stuff you quoted from direct eye witnesses? No, they weren't I quoted the only eye witness Eusebius and he said Constantine designed his standard after the cross. It had the Chi Rho but the standard was in the form of a cross.
No you can't post evidence all you can post is stuff that supports your assumptions/presuppositions as you have been doing.
Here is a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia.What you "quoted" is not there. How do you explain that amigo?
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Constantine the Great
And for your information Alexander Hislop had been exposed as a fraud. A former follower of his tried to research the sources he quoted and found that they either did not exist or did not say what Hislop claimed they did.
The Two Babylons - Christian Research Institute
I have a quick question for you do you know what historical evidence is? Something written at or near the times in question by a direct eye witness. Anything written by a scholar 2000 years later without historical evidence is worthless.
 
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HARK!

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Now, please answer clearly, does circumcision make one more justified in the eyes of God?

Circumcision is an outward expression of faith. All will be justified by faith. Faith without works is a dead faith; therefore circumcision without faith is of no value. However failure to act in faith demonstrates a lack of faith. YHWH will be right in his verdict; and justified when he judges.
 
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HARK!

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You are the one who has not done the research. You keep demonstrating all you do is search for anything that seems to support your assumptions/presuppositions. Were any of the stuff you quoted from direct eye witnesses? No, they weren't I quoted the only eye witness Eusebius and he said Constantine designed his standard after the cross. It had the Chi Rho but the standard was in the form of a cross.
No you can't post evidence all you can post is stuff that supports your assumptions/presuppositions as you have been doing.
Here is a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia.What you "quoted" is not there. How do you explain that amigo?
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Constantine the Great
And for your information Alexander Hislop had been exposed as a fraud. A former follower of his tried to research the sources he quoted and found that they either did not exist or did not say what Hislop claimed they did.
The Two Babylons - Christian Research Institute
I have a quick question for you do you know what historical evidence is? Something written at or near the times in question by a direct eye witness. Anything written by a scholar 2000 years later without historical evidence is worthless.

Again, you're off topic. I don't want you to derail this thread, with this impertinent topic. Again, start your own thread; give me an @; and we'll have this debate there.
 
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HatGuy

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That is the goal. Abraham was lead in faith. His obedience perfected his faith.
When is this achieved? Not by simple faith in Christ?

Those who are in faith, believe what YHWH says. If they believe; their actions will reflect that.
Just another version then of "it's by faith, not works, but you better maintain that faith by works otherwise you never had faith." It's double-speak.

Same mistake as RCC
Same mistake as present-day Evangelicalism
Same mistake as Revivalism
Same mistake as Pharisaicalism
Same mistake as JW's
Same mistake as the pietists
...and I could go on.

It amazes me how God's grace is never enough for humankind and people never want Jesus' death to be sufficient. I am prone to also fall into this trap, too often, but to subscribe to a theological system that blatantly promotes it is beyond my understanding.

The consequences are outlined in the Torah. The remedies vary.
I.e. death. So Christ died for nothing!
 
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HARK!

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These are interesting responses.

When is this achieved? Not by simple faith in Christ?

it would seem that it was a process. Circumcision was a step. Willingness to offer up his firstborn was another. I believe that YHWH is allowing us to be tested in every step of our walks. Abraham's faith was in YHWH; but I suspect that Yahshua still plays a role in Abraham's ultimate salvation.

Just another version then of "it's by faith, not works, but you better maintain that faith by works otherwise you never had faith." It's double-speak.

Same mistake as RCC
Same mistake as present-day Evangelicalism
Same mistake as Revivalism
Same mistake as Pharisaicalism
Same mistake as JW's
Same mistake as the pietists
...and I could go on.

It amazes me how God's grace is never enough for humankind and people never want Jesus' death to be sufficient. I am prone to also fall into this trap, too often, but to subscribe to a theological system that blatantly promotes it is beyond my understanding.

Yahshua's death is sufficient if you believe in him. We are to die to sin, as he he died in obedience. YHWH's grace covers our past transgressions, having come to faith; but will it cover those who continue to trample on Yahshua's sacrifice?

I.e. death. So Christ died for nothing!

He died so that those who believe in him can be reborn in him. How can we say that we believe in him, yet ignore the example he set in his ministry?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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That would preclude Jesus from being a prophet. And since all the law and the prophets testified about Jesus, your position can't be true.

The question asked was, "When the NT prophets and writers render the OT prophets do you take that as a measure of prophecy?" and the answer given was "Matthew 12:13." That answer is an NT prophet rendering the OT prophets. You have appealed to the NT writer Matthew to answer the question! You've measured the OT prophets by the NT.

So the answer to the question asked, "When the NT prophets and writers render the OT prophets do you take that as a measure of prophecy?" is "Yes, Josh, I do take the NT prophets as a measure of the OT prophets," although perhaps it wasn't realized as such.

My point was decisively proven not just in content but also in method.

Well no, not at all. John died before the NC was brought in. He was an OT prophet. Matthew only wrote about it, he was not a prophet. The verse says that the law and the OT prophets prophesied until John (making him the final OT prophet). Yeshua? Now you are just grasping at straws. He was the Messiah and He was the one saying it...
 
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HatGuy

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it would seem that it was a process. Circumcision was a step. Willingness to offer up his firstborn was another. I believe that YHWH is allowing us to be tested in every step of our walks. Abraham's faith was in YHWH; but I suspect that Yahshua still plays a role in Abraham's ultimate salvation.
Ok. I believe that God justifies the sinner through faith in Christ and while faith is always living and active, God does not 'test' us, life does.

Yahshua's death is sufficient if you believe in him. We are to die to sin, as he he died in obedience. YHWH's grace covers our past transgressions, having come to faith; but will it cover those who continue to trample on Yahshua's sacrifice?
Does not following the feasts or the Torah mean we trample on Yahshua's sacrifice?

Or does not believing that His work is sufficient a tramp on His sacrifice?

He died so that those who believe in him can be reborn in him. How can we say that we believe in him, yet ignore the example he set in his ministry?
Everyone seems to want to follow Jesus' example, but far fewer want to simply believe Him as their only Saviour.
 
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Ok. I believe that God justifies the sinner through faith in Christ and while faith is always living and active, God does not 'test' us, life does.

I didn't say that YHWH tests us. I said that he allows us to be tested. Life is that test.

Does not following the feasts or the Torah mean we trample on Yahshua's sacrifice?

Or does not believing that His work is sufficient a tramp on His sacrifice?

His work is an example to follow.



What do you make of this passage?:


37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen." 38 And His word you do not have remaining in you, for that One Whom He commissions, this One you are not believing." 39 Search the scriptures, for in them you are supposing you have life eonian, and those are they which are testifying concerning Me, 40 and not willing are you to come to Me that you may have life. 41 Glory from men I am not getting." 42 But I know you, that you have not the love of God in yourselves." 43 I have come in the name of My Father, and you are not getting Me. If another should be coming in his own name, him you will get." 44 How can you believe, getting glory from one another, and are not seeking the glory which is from God alone? 45 Be not supposing that I shall be accusing you to the Father. He who is accusing you to the Father is Moses, on whom you rely." 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he writes concerning Me." 47 Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?


Everyone seems to want to follow Jesus' example, but far fewer want to simply believe Him as their only Saviour.

How would you reconcile that with this verse?

YesheYahu (Isa) 43:
11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside Me there is no savior
 
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Der Alte

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Again, you're off topic. I don't want you to derail this thread, with this impertinent topic. Again, start your own thread; give me an @; and we'll have this debate there.
You took the thread off topic in post #414
Why do Many Christians Ignore YHWH's Moedim?
Everything I have posted was in reply to your posts. Now having got your fanny smacked you want to cry foul.
 
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Der Alte

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Thanks for posting the picture. It supports my argument. You have obviously done very little research on this subject.

Here are a few more sources for you:

Dr. Bullinger, in the Companion Bible, appx. 162, states,

"crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian Sun-god (Tammuz)... It should be stated that Constantine was a Sun-god worshipper ... The evidence is thus complete, that Yahusha was put to death upon an upright stake, and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."

Rev. Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, pp. 197-205,

frankly calls the cross "this Pagan symbol ... the Tau, the sign of the cross, the indisputable sign of Tammuz, the false Messiah ... the mystic Tau of the Cladeans (Babylonians) and Egyptians - the true original form of the letter T the initial of the name of Tammuz ... the Babylonian cross was the recognized emblem of Tammuz."

In the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, vol. 14, p. 273,

"In the Egyption churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the pagan-Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner." Jacob Grimm, in his Deutsche Mythologie, says that the Teutonic (Germanic) tribes had their idol Thor, symbolized by a hammer, while the Roman Pagans had their crux (cross). It was thus somewhat easier for the Teutons to accept the Roman Cross.

Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xiv, pp. 370-1

The smooth generalisation, which so many historians are content to repeat, that Constantine "embraced the Christian religion" and subsequently granted "official toleration", is "contrary to historical fact" and should be erased from our literature forever (Catholic Encyclopedia, Pecci ed., vol. iii, p. 299, passim).

I don't want to take this thread down a bunny hole on this point. I could go on posting evidence all day long. If you would like to discuss this further; I'll accept your invitation to a thread on the subject. This subject is least of my concerns.
My final post. You claimed to have done research. You did NOT do any research. All you did was go to this website and copy/paste everything there, word for word. You have never seen any of these primary sources. You don't know what any of them actually say.
The Cross of Tammuz

You are welcome to your false beliefs and false information. Don't call me I'll call you.
 
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HatGuy

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I didn't say that YHWH tests us. I said that he allows us to be tested. Life is that test.
Fair enough, sorry about that.
His work is an example to follow.
What do you make of this passage?:

37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen." 38 And His word you do not have remaining in you, for that One Whom He commissions, this One you are not believing." 39 Search the scriptures, for in them you are supposing you have life eonian, and those are they which are testifying concerning Me, 40 and not willing are you to come to Me that you may have life. 41 Glory from men I am not getting." 42 But I know you, that you have not the love of God in yourselves." 43 I have come in the name of My Father, and you are not getting Me. If another should be coming in his own name, him you will get." 44 How can you believe, getting glory from one another, and are not seeking the glory which is from God alone? 45 Be not supposing that I shall be accusing you to the Father. He who is accusing you to the Father is Moses, on whom you rely." 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he writes concerning Me." 47 Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?
1. That you can study the scriptures but still miss Jesus
2. That all of the OT points to Jesus
3. That the very Law they taught was condemning them because they refused to come to the one who that Torah points towards. So Jesus says they did not actually believe the writings of Moses.

How would you reconcile that with this verse?

YesheYahu (Isa) 43:
11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside Me there is no savior
Jesus is YHWH, I AM.
 
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HARK!

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3. That the very Law they taught was condemning them because they refused to come to the one who that Torah points towards. So Jesus says they did not actually believe the writings of Moses.

37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me.

That would be YHWH.

Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."

They aren't receptive to YHWH.

38 And His word you do not have remaining in you,

YHWH instuctions

for that One Whom He commissions,

Yahshua is YHWH's word.


this One you are not believing."

They aren't receptive to Yahshua.

39 Search the scriptures, for in them you are supposing you have life eonian,

The scriptures explain eternal life through faith obedience to YHWH's instructions

and those are they which are testifying concerning Me,

The instruction testifies to itself.

40 and not willing are you to come to Me that you may have life.

They reject the instruction that leads to eternal life.

41 Glory from men I am not getting." 42 But I know you, that you have not the love of God in yourselves."

What is the love of YHWH?

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

From Decalogue:
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.


43 I have come in the name of My Father, and you are not getting Me. If another should be coming in his own name, him you will get." 44 How can you believe, getting glory from one another, and are not seeking the glory which is from God alone? 45 Be not supposing that I shall be accusing you to the Father. He who is accusing you to the Father is Moses,

Moses delivered YHWH's instructions

on whom you rely." 46 For if you believed Moses,

You would follow YHWH's instructions and


you would believe Me,

and follow YHWH's instructions.


for he writes concerning Me."

Yahshua is the word in the flesh. He's the living instruction.

47 Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?

Yahshua spoke his Father's words.


Jesus is YHWH, I AM.

The father is the son?
 
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Josheb

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Matthew only wrote about it, he was not a prophet.
Even if I were to accept the premise Matthew was not a prophet that does not change the fact that a New Testament source is used to interpret the Old Testament prophets. It does not change the fact that Matthew is recording Jesus, a New Testament prophet, interpreting the Old. Who was and wasn't defined as an OT prophet has been defined by an NT text. It has been defined by an NT prophet recorded by an NT writer. Furthermore, if Matthew is not a prophet then who was an was not a prophet has been defined by someone who, according to you, was not a prophet. I other words, a non-prophet has defined who qualifies as a prophet.

No straw-grasping required.

This does not avoid the fact Jesus, Peter, James, and Paul also made prophetic statements and rendered the OT prophets. Even if I accept the premise the OT prophets stopped with the NT John the baptizer that doesn't change the fact NT prophets did render OT prophets. Or is it being denied Jesus, Peter, James, and Paul were prophets?


Remember: the original question was, "When the NT prophets and writers render the OT prophets do you take that as a measure of prophecy?"

So the answer is, "Yes, Josh, I do take the NT writers as a measure of prophesy and to demonstrate that fact I appeal to Matthew 11:13 where Matthew, an NT writer defines who is and isn't an OT prophet."

No straw-grasping required.

The verse says that the law and the OT prophets prophesied until John (making him the final OT prophet).
Proof-texting is never valid and it doesn't change the fact OT prophets have been rendered by an NT writer.
Yeshua? Now you are just grasping at straws. He was the Messiah and He was the one saying it...
...in the New Testament!


When the NT prophets and writers render the OT prophets do you take that as a measure of prophecy?


The facts in evidence demonstrate you do.

No straw-grasping required.



So now that is has been established the NT prophets and writers render the OT prophets and they serve as a measure of those prophets perhaps now we can discuss who the NT prophets and writers show the moedim fulfilled.

You up for that, or do you still want to avoid the question asked? If so then let's start with Act 2:20.

Acts 2:29-33
" 29“Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30“And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh suffer decay. 32This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. 33Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."

Here we have Peter, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit claiming David was speaking prophetically about about the resurrection and the resurrection of Jesus. All the prophesies about the Davidic throne (beginning in 2 Samuel 7) are about the resurrection of Christ.

Jesus has been resurrected! Praise God!

So the Davidic throne prophesies have been fulfilled according to Peter speaking under the influence of God's own Holy Spirit. Acts 7:55-56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3, 8:1, 10:12, and 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22; and Revelation 3:21 all testify to this fact. So there are five different NT writers and prophets rendering the OT prophet David.



No straw-grasping required.
 
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visionary

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So I am not joined to Jesus in the Holy Spirit if I don't partake of these feasts?
Holy Spirit always leads, long before you are fully immersed into the truth. Keep following His guidance, do not resist Him and you will be fine.
 
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visionary

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Is the mention of "a thousand years" in Revelation 20 is to be taken literally to mean a literal one thousand years?

That chapter repeatedly uses figure of speech and symbol after figure and symbol. So am I to understand that in a chapter filled with symbolic imagery three words out of that highly figurative passage should be taken literally while treating everything else is read figuratively as intended?

Or is it thought the devil is actually, literally a dragon?
Is it thought there is an actual literal abyss that can contain the actual literal dragon?
Is it understood what John is reporting is a vision?

When Psalm 50 states God owns the cattle on a thousand hills does that mean there are an actual literal thousand hills on which God actually literally owns the actual literal cattle? Does God not also own all the cattle on hills 1001, 1002, 10003, 100004 and all the cattle on all hills because He created all the hills and all the cattle that have ever existed?



Do you know, are you aware, the idea the 1000 years of Revelation 20 should be taken literally is a relatively new invention in Christian thought, doctrine, and practice? Do you know and are you aware it is not only a relatively new invention (less than 200 years old) but it is also a minority view?


Swodmanjr is correct: you have a serious problem with exegesis.


The thousand years of Revelation 20 began with the binding of satan at Calvary and continues to this day. It is not a literal 1000 years. According to Jude 1:6, satan has always been bound. That is the context for his binding in Revelation 20. This has long been the position of Christendom and it was not until the apocalyptic movements of the early- to mid-1800s that any other view was considered, much less considered orthodox and mainstream.



If what I have posted hasn't been understood then give some of the following a read,
.
"The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views" edited by Robert Clouse.​
.
In this book four different noted theologians weigh in on the nature of the "millennium." Read this book with you Bible in the other hand, opened, and used, as you compare those authors' use and abuse of scripture to prove their respective positions. You'll be surprised.
.
"Four Views on the Book of Revelation" edited by Stanley Gundry.
"Five View on Law and Gospel" edited by Stanley Gundry
"Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond" edited by Stanley Gundry
"Three Views on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament" edited by Stanley Gundry
"Three Views on Hell" edited by Stanley Gundry​

The above are all from the Zondervan Counterpoint Series wherein theologians from differing points of view make the case for that view. Each author also provides a critique of the alternative views.
.
"The Case for Amillennialism" by Kim Riddlebarger
"He Shall Hav Dominion" by Kenneth Gentry
"The Blessed Hope" by George Eldon Ladd
"Last Days Madness" by Gary Demar
.
Each of these books addresses one of the prominent eschatological views held since the NT era. Others have popped up afterwards. In these books you will see how and why the idead I've read supporting this op aren't just a matter of opinion but cannot be once the Bible is examined exegetically. Pay particular attention to Riddlebarger's exegesis because although I don't agree with all of his conclusions his handling of scripture is impressive; nearly impeccable. The Demar book is a blunt treatment of modern-day false prognosticators.




it bolis down to this: based on the posts I have here read, it is evident you don't know how the Bible teaches us the festivals have been fulfilled. Before I posted in this op I surveyed the web to view various sources for the idea the festivals are yet to be fulfilled so I understand your perspective is common. Common is not necessarily correct. What's common is not necessarily orthodox nor mainstreem. You, apparently - based on the evidence in these posts - don't have much knowledge of the alternatives, nor and understanding of how alternatives could even possibly exist.

AND the conversational skills necessary to learn that information is lacking.

So I'm going to give you one last opportunity to give me a reason to stick around and walk through scripture with you before I conclude you qualify for Titus 3:9-11 and move on to other ops. That's it. One last chance. So resist the urge to digress and ask me something or give me commentary with which I can work op-relevantly. Resist the urge to add another fallacy response. The goal here is,


a polite and respectful, reasonable and rational, cogent and coherent, topical case from well-reasoned scripture...


...and it should be recognized from the outset that logically you're at a disadvantage because you're trying to prove a negative.[/INDENT]
When I walk about a football team and say "bears" you know what I mean. So while the devil is called a dragon, you know what God means.
 
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HARK!

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I disagree with this. His work is the work to be trusted in. It was a unique work and fulfilled by Him. "It is finished!" were his words. What do you suppose He meant?

If you father tells you that if you follow his instructions; he'll let you live; then you don't follow his instruction, then die; how can you say that you believed him?

Did Adam believe YHWH? It's the same story.

There is a logical precept which states that the simplest explanation is the most likely.

When he said, "it is finished;" he had completed his father's work within his flesh.

This explanation makes no inferences. I don't believe that he was saying that all of his words of faith obedience to the Torah, everything that he lived and died for, was overturned.
 
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Josheb

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When I walk about a football team and say "bears" you know what I mean. So while the devil is called a dragon, you know what God means.
Yes, and when God says Jesus will rule a thousand years, I also understand what that means, especially when those three words occur surrounded by a plethora of figurative language. The bears aren't actual bears, the dragon isn't literal and neither is the one thousand years. Jesus rules for all time and there has never been a time when the logos of God who is God hasn't ruled. Thanks for making my point with me. Appreciated.
 
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37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me.

That would be YHWH.

Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."

They aren't receptive to YHWH.

38 And His word you do not have remaining in you,

YHWH instuctions

for that One Whom He commissions,

Yahshua is YHWH's word.


this One you are not believing."

They aren't receptive to Yahshua.

39 Search the scriptures, for in them you are supposing you have life eonian,

The scriptures explain eternal life through faith obedience to YHWH's instructions

and those are they which are testifying concerning Me,

The instruction testifies to itself.

40 and not willing are you to come to Me that you may have life.

They reject the instruction that leads to eternal life.

41 Glory from men I am not getting." 42 But I know you, that you have not the love of God in yourselves."

What is the love of YHWH?

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

From Decalogue:
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.


43 I have come in the name of My Father, and you are not getting Me. If another should be coming in his own name, him you will get." 44 How can you believe, getting glory from one another, and are not seeking the glory which is from God alone? 45 Be not supposing that I shall be accusing you to the Father. He who is accusing you to the Father is Moses,

Moses delivered YHWH's instructions

on whom you rely." 46 For if you believed Moses,

You would follow YHWH's instructions and


you would believe Me,

and follow YHWH's instructions.


for he writes concerning Me."

Yahshua is the word in the flesh. He's the living instruction.

47 Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?

Yahshua spoke his Father's words.




The father is the son?
I take "word" (logos) to refer to the source of life, the "living word", the Spirit, and not just instructions.

So this scripture is not referring to carrying out the instructions but believing in the very embodiment of the Torah itself, Christ. I think we might have an agreement that Jesus is the living Torah, but the implication in my view is that since the "Torah" (the Word) manifested in the flesh and died on the cross, and then was raised to new life, in the same way the written code died on the cross because the written code only pertains to life lived in the flesh, not life lived in the Spirit. Therefore, those found "in" the Messiah, through faith in Him, no longer live according to the written code (the old that died) but live on the new life (the Christ that rose). Jesus was Torah in the flesh, the flesh died (so Torah died) and the Spirit was raised- the new life.

In this way Christ was "born under the law" but died and therefore is no longer under the Law (as Romans 7 shows) and likewise all mankind is "born under the Law" but in Christ dies to it and is raised to the new when in Christ.

Where we no doubt disagree is on eschatology. I believe that the written instructions in Torah were for a time to function as a schoolmaster, but the Living Torah as Jesus goes beyond the written instructions into something entirely new- a new creation. The written Torah does not function in the new creation, but the Holy Spirit does. So the feasts and all other such things in the written Torah have passed for Christians as Christians already live in the new creation spiritually.
 
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Where we no doubt disagree is on eschatology.

I'm not sure that we do. In what sense?

I believe that the written instructions in Torah were for a time to function as a schoolmaster,

Many believe this way. I used to; but that is because many translations render this verse in the past tense. Let's look at the source of this belief from a literal translation:

(CLV) Ga 3:24
So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.

This literal version renders it in the present perfect tense,

The KJV translates Strong's G1096 in the following manner: be (255x), come to pass (82x), be made (69x), be done (63x), come (52x), become (47x), God forbid (with G3361) (15x), arise (13x), have (5x), be fulfilled (3x), be married to (3x), be preferred (3x), not translated (14x), miscellaneous (4x), variations of 'done' (2x).
G1096 - ginomai - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

There seems to be a bias in the KJV regarding the definition of this word, in this verse.


but the Living Torah as Jesus goes beyond the written instructions into something entirely new- a new creation

I believe that when we are born anew; we are the new creation in Yahshua.

The written Torah does not function in the new creation, but the Holy Spirit does.

Torah is simply the Hebrew word for law. The law expresses the nature of our father. I believe that in the Ruach Ha'Kodesh indwells us (to a lesser degree), as it does in Yahshua; (Yahshua's is without measure) that we take on the nature of our father.
 
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